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ambelamba

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A few days ago I worked for a Netflix show. Some of the extras got into a conversation on religion and one black lady was an adamant Evangelical.

And...she refused to acknowledge the perspectives from OTHER religions. She summed them up as Satan's deception. And I came to realize that convincing them to acknowledge that there are religions with different views is a waste of them. They won't listen. Or at best, they won't react.

In UM, I often presented the perspectives from other belief systems, and basically I was wasting my time. To Abrahamic believers, I was basically making meaningless yapping. They are absolutely not concerned about other religions and their perspectives. They don't care at best. And I came to realize that I wasn't different at all when I was a Christian.

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Why do you think they come up with sayings like "He does it religiously."

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Now how did I know this was going to be about how irrational religious folk are and how they make you angry?

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This is reminding me of an experience years ago, when a Baptist friend felt she had to lecture me of her religion. When I felt slightly dizzy, and told her, she said that it was the devil doing that to me. What I really feel was happening was that I physically did not want to hear something that I strongly did not believe in and thus my body reacted to that. I do no believe in the devil, and I couldn't get her lecture to be seen as truth to me. She had her 'definitions' of things outside of her belief. I guess one could say, I also had mine.

Is it a waste of time to encourage others to think about other's beliefs or just know they are there? I think we all will have our reasoning of what other beliefs are, I think it's probably not a good idea to 'claim' something about someone else's.

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Now that's my kind of discussion. icon_lol.gif

Which show?

Let's not lump all believers of the Abrahamic religions in with the hardcore Evangelicals. I know many Christians, Muslims, and Jews who are perfectly capable of appreciating other religions' worldviews.

With fanaticism, an unfortunate condition which can be applied to more than religion, I'd be inclined to agree with you. I don't think all discussion is futile, however. It's just harder.

Great points Chester, I think the two best words in the English language are 'for me' for me the path of Athiesm works best, 'for me' I have found a way to have a marriage that enhances my happiness, 'for me,' I have found a way to parent that culminated in great kids, 'for me,' having friendships with many religious paths is delightful and growth producing. Even the people, I don't like or can't find common ground with 'for me,' this is an opportunity to grow in some way. 'For me,' discussion is not futile. I agree there are definitely those who have fixed mindsets and those who are more growth oriented, I think this has its roots in how a person is raised, were they judged, or were they encouraged to love challenges, be intrigued by their mistakes and value them for the refinement they provide, and were they taught that effort is a huge part of success and that the goal is to keep learning not think you already know.

Edited by Sherapy
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This is reminding me of an experience years ago, when a Baptist friend felt she had to lecture me of her religion. When I felt slightly dizzy, and told her, she said that it was the devil doing that to me. What I really feel was happening was that I physically did not want to hear something that I strongly did not believe in and thus my body reacted to that. I do no believe in the devil, and I couldn't get her lecture to be seen as truth to me. She had her 'definitions' of things outside of her belief. I guess one could say, I also had mine.

Is it a waste of time to encourage others to think about other's beliefs or just know they are there? I think we all will have our reasoning of what other beliefs are, I think it's probably not a good idea to 'claim' something about someone else's.

I had a really good friend at the time (years back) who was evangelical Christian contrasted by my Athiesm, we had amazing conversations, it was really fun talking with her, then she got upset that I didn't believe in the devil and felt it her duty to inform me how wrong I was. I politely excused myself and went home. A few weeks later she showed up at my door with flowers and said she was sorry and could we move forward, I said of course and it only made our friendship deeper, we are still friends and I attribute this friendship with more growth for me than anything else. I learned a lot about how religion was presented to her and in her case imposing her beliefs getting them just right was how she was taught to show love. I probably learned more from her than she did from me. More times then not once a person gets to know me and gets past the atheist label, they see I am not lacking anything, I think exposure to diversity socially is a wonderful way to create bridges, I want to have friends that are of all faiths so I can nurture my tolerance and understanding, but sometimes there will be that one that just can't see past their beliefs, my mom was like this, now that she has died as a family we are no longer allowing this because we all see how much it caused division, she literally practiced her beliefs in a way that kept us from being a family, I only wish my mom could be here now to see how well we all get along in spite of our different paths, it's actually remarkable.

Edited by Sherapy
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They are absolutely not concerned about other religions and their perspectives. They don't care at best.

Ahh, the very present and ever-shadowy "they". With all this talk of how you've shared your views on UM, "they" must really have gotten to you.
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Ahh, the very present and ever-shadowy "they". With all this talk of how you've shared your views on UM, "they" must really have gotten to you.

The double-standard hypocrisy tends to rub non-christians the wrong way.

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People willingly strip themselves of their ability to wonder all the time. Some types of conformity come at a price.

But I believe this kind of behavior is also a form of surrender in the face of a pursuit that is unattainable. The scope of such a thing can overwhelm. It is sometimes easier to simply give yourself over to a side, than it is to be lost in limbo.

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I'm fine with the religion ones who don't wear their faith as a badge of honor. It's the pushy blind sheep you try to force their religious view on you because somehow you're flawed in their eyes. I've come to believe that the spiritual people are a 1000X better than any of the religious sorts. At times it's hard to discuss different view with people because it tend to create unneeded tension for both parties. While I might butt heads with some here on matters of faith if we spent time talking about it, we'd find that our view are the same but through different lenses.

A Christian might speak of Sin and I might speak of the Duality of our nature. They may speak of the glory of God and I might speak of a comforting thought. They might pray about their problems and I might write mine down, since both are ways of venting. They might talk about the beautiful things in life and I might agree (especially if it's about cats lol). Some of us here have a 4th degree burn caused by religious individuals, this has soured our view and at times (perhaps a lot) made us jaded. I think it's important to remember that no matter the belief/s we are all human and none of us truly know what's going on.

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I'm fine with the religion ones who don't wear their faith as a badge of honor. It's the pushy blind sheep you try to force their religious view on you because somehow you're flawed in their eyes. I've come to believe that the spiritual people are a 1000X better than any of the religious sorts. At times it's hard to discuss different view with people because it tend to create unneeded tension for both parties. While I might butt heads with some here on matters of faith if we spent time talking about it, we'd find that our view are the same but through different lenses.

A Christian might speak of Sin and I might speak of the Duality of our nature. They may speak of the glory of God and I might speak of a comforting thought. They might pray about their problems and I might write mine down, since both are ways of venting. They might talk about the beautiful things in life and I might agree (especially if it's about cats lol). Some of us here have a 4th degree burn caused by religious individuals, this has soured our view and at times (perhaps a lot) made us jaded. I think it's important to remember that no matter the belief/s we are all human and none of us truly know what's going on.

A million likes on this post, it is a beautiful post, man! I agree some of us have had an awful experience with religion; it was a long journey for me out of the harmful teachings I endured in my formative years, while that is behind me, the positives are that I worked hard to come out some serious warped teachings. I have been able to work through a lot of anger and get to a place where I am at peace, can learn from other perspectives, and nurture tolerance andI have amazing friends who are not atheists like me, and who have helped me the most by showing me that what I experienced does not speak for all or happen to everyone. I love your last line we are all human and the truth is not one of us can say we know anything for sure and then claim to be honest on top of it. Bravo on this post!!!!!!

Edited by Sherapy
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I am under an NDA contract. I can't tell you which show I am working on.

Well, truth be told, for last ten years I think I've met whole lot more of non-believers than hardcore fanatics. Well, it's So Cal. And people in the creative industry tend to be less religious.

Bear in mind that I myself used to be an evangelical Christian who scoffed at evolution and believed in Rapture. The evil schemes of Satan was a key element of my thinking process, making me even more paranoid against anything non-Christian.

My Fundamentalist past caused a major setback in my life that made me struggle for many years, even now. I do feel justified when I have a hostile feeling toward evangelical Christianity because of what it did to my life.

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A few days ago I worked for a Netflix show. Some of the extras got into a conversation on religion and one black lady was an adamant Evangelical.

And...she refused to acknowledge the perspectives from OTHER religions. She summed them up as Satan's deception. And I came to realize that convincing them to acknowledge that there are religions with different views is a waste of them. They won't listen. Or at best, they won't react.

In UM, I often presented the perspectives from other belief systems, and basically I was wasting my time. To Abrahamic believers, I was basically making meaningless yapping. They are absolutely not concerned about other religions and their perspectives. They don't care at best. And I came to realize that I wasn't different at all when I was a Christian.

I think the same is often the truth from many other religions and non-religions. The reason why we have a specific worldview is because we believe truth describes the way we view reality. I can appreciate other religions as manifestations of the cultures they are practiced in without believing them to be even possibly true. There is nothing wrong with that.

Would evangelicalism be the same apart from Western civilization and philosophy? I can confidently say no. Christianity in America reflects a reformation of Latin theology whereas Eastern Orthodox churches in Russia and Eastern Europe reflect the dramatically different Greek theology. Would Coptic Christianity in Egypt be different from the other two? I suspect so.

We cannot deny the footprint that each culture across the world has on religion. If that is the case, why should I feel guilty for not believing in the plausability of other religions?

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I am under an NDA contract. I can't tell you which show I am working on.

Well, truth be told, for last ten years I think I've met whole lot more of non-believers than hardcore fanatics. Well, it's So Cal. And people in the creative industry tend to be less religious.

Bear in mind that I myself used to be an evangelical Christian who scoffed at evolution and believed in Rapture. The evil schemes of Satan was a key element of my thinking process, making me even more paranoid against anything non-Christian.

My Fundamentalist past caused a major setback in my life that made me struggle for many years, even now. I do feel justified when I have a hostile feeling toward evangelical Christianity because of what it did to my life.

I think rightly so. On my facebook page, I discussed the legalization of homosexual marriage, asking, "What's the big deal?" One of my lifelong friends unfriended me and sent me a message telling me so. He did not even leave much room for discussion. I was deeply offended but completely understood how he could do such a thing. Evangelicalism is against alternative interpretations within the Christian community. It's defense that the Bible is literally God's Word and perfect in every way is likely why it does so. As such, it is increasingly losing credibility. Rachel Held Evans, a popular Christian blogger, gained even more popularity when she discussed why she was leaving Evangelicalism.

I am deeply upset that my lifelong friend refuses to communicate with me, thinking that such an attempt to shame me will bring me back to the Evangelical interpretation of theology. I must follow the truth where it leads me though. I am a Christian that understands that Christians have not agreed with each other on everything for centuries and yet still found room to call each other brother. I call Evangelicals brothers and sisters, but I can still disagree with them. I guess that is one major difference between them and I.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my story and encourage you with news that more and more Christians are leaving Evangelicalism in search of truth that transcends our own cultures.

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Great points Chester, I think the two best words in the English language are 'for me' for me the path of Athiesm works best, 'for me' I have found a way to have a marriage that enhances my happiness, 'for me,' I have found a way to parent that culminated in great kids, 'for me,' having friendships with many religious paths is delightful and growth producing. Even the people, I don't like or can't find common ground with 'for me,' this is an opportunity to grow in some way. 'For me,' discussion is not futile. I agree there are definitely those who have fixed mindsets and those who are more growth oriented, I think this has its roots in how a person is raised, were they judged, or were they encouraged to love challenges, be intrigued by their mistakes and value them for the refinement they provide, and were they taught that effort is a huge part of success and that the goal is to keep learning not think you already know.

I totally agree. When those words, or 'I think' or 'I believe' and such, that is when I am behind and defending a person. I feel they know that it's just something they practice and realize there are other beliefs or non beliefs they feel are just as part of this world. :yes:

I had a really good friend at the time (years back) who was evangelical Christian contrasted by my Athiesm, we had amazing conversations, it was really fun talking with her, then she got upset that I didn't believe in the devil and felt it her duty to inform me how wrong I was. I politely excused myself and went home. A few weeks later she showed up at my door with flowers and said she was sorry and could we move forward, I said of course and it only made our friendship deeper, we are still friends and I attribute this friendship with more growth for me than anything else. I learned a lot about how religion was presented to her and in her case imposing her beliefs getting them just right was how she was taught to show love. I probably learned more from her than she did from me. More times then not once a person gets to know me and gets past the atheist label, they see I am not lacking anything, I think exposure to diversity socially is a wonderful way to create bridges, I want to have friends that are of all faiths so I can nurture my tolerance and understanding, but sometimes there will be that one that just can't see past their beliefs, my mom was like this, now that she has died as a family we are no longer allowing this because we all see how much it caused division, she literally practiced her beliefs in a way that kept us from being a family, I only wish my mom could be here now to see how well we all get along in spite of our different paths, it's actually remarkable.

I'm still friends with that lady. I think things have changed since then. But the friend you are talking about, reminds me of who I often discuss about here. The one who would lecture me until I stood my ground, kind of humorously yet seriously. And she laughed and yes it was different and nicer after that. The sad part was, I moved from that state years ago, and haven't heard from her since. :(

I'm fine with the religion ones who don't wear their faith as a badge of honor. It's the pushy blind sheep you try to force their religious view on you because somehow you're flawed in their eyes. I've come to believe that the spiritual people are a 1000X better than any of the religious sorts. At times it's hard to discuss different view with people because it tend to create unneeded tension for both parties. While I might butt heads with some here on matters of faith if we spent time talking about it, we'd find that our view are the same but through different lenses.

A Christian might speak of Sin and I might speak of the Duality of our nature. They may speak of the glory of God and I might speak of a comforting thought. They might pray about their problems and I might write mine down, since both are ways of venting. They might talk about the beautiful things in life and I might agree (especially if it's about cats lol). Some of us here have a 4th degree burn caused by religious individuals, this has soured our view and at times (perhaps a lot) made us jaded. I think it's important to remember that no matter the belief/s we are all human and none of us truly know what's going on.

I feel this is a great posts!! :tu: (and YAY, another cat person!!!!! :D )

I think rightly so. On my facebook page, I discussed the legalization of homosexual marriage, asking, "What's the big deal?" One of my lifelong friends unfriended me and sent me a message telling me so. He did not even leave much room for discussion. I was deeply offended but completely understood how he could do such a thing. Evangelicalism is against alternative interpretations within the Christian community. It's defense that the Bible is literally God's Word and perfect in every way is likely why it does so. As such, it is increasingly losing credibility. Rachel Held Evans, a popular Christian blogger, gained even more popularity when she discussed why she was leaving Evangelicalism.

I am deeply upset that my lifelong friend refuses to communicate with me, thinking that such an attempt to shame me will bring me back to the Evangelical interpretation of theology. I must follow the truth where it leads me though. I am a Christian that understands that Christians have not agreed with each other on everything for centuries and yet still found room to call each other brother. I call Evangelicals brothers and sisters, but I can still disagree with them. I guess that is one major difference between them and I.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my story and encourage you with news that more and more Christians are leaving Evangelicalism in search of truth that transcends our own cultures.

This reminds me of Jimmy Carter years ago, if I remember correctly, made an announcement of leaving his church, and probably either leaving his religion or saying what he found fault in it. In fact, I find at least one link that mentions it. http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/losing-my-religion-for-equality-20090714-dk0v.html

I remember him mentioning how awful he found it to women. To me, (and that is in my point of view) that seems loving toward his wife and daughter. And again, (in my point of view) I could never get how some in religions and beliefs (where women are so subjugated immensly and for wrong reasons) how the men in their lives who 'love' them would be behind this. If someone loves someone truely, like the husbands of wives, one wouldn't want to see their wives subjected to such situations.

I'm sorry for the loss of the friend in your life. I am hoping, if the friend still cares about you, would see about reflecting you point of views at least.

Edited by Stubbly_Dooright
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I really don't care what others believe as long as they don't try to use it to control others through manipulation of law and to discriminate against others, then I have a problem.

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Surprise, surprise. For the devout religion is not a passing fad, or phase they are going through. A lot people who once thought they were this or once thought they were that probably never "were" at all.

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Surprise, surprise. For the devout religion is not a passing fad, or phase they are going through. A lot people who once thought they were this or once thought they were that probably never "were" at all.

I'm not sure about it being a fad but it definitely can be a phase. Yes, you can lose faith and belief like anyone else. Judging from your location...probably you won't understand. :D

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A lot people have sort of "running with the crowd" take on religion, having no real faith themselves, they lean on the faith of others. When that support is yanked out from under them, they're left with nothing but a sense of bitterness and abandonment.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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A lot people have sort of "running with the crowd" take on religion, having no real faith themselves, they lean on the faith of others. When that support is yanked out from under them, they're left with nothing but a sense of bitterness and abandonment.

In my case I was born and bred with Christian worldview and didn't know anything else. I just didn't go with the crowd. And I don't think faith itself is a virtue anymore. So I find other people's opinion on faith rather amusing and even disturbing.

I remember some of your posts, and I am pretty darn sure you won't rethink your belief and opinion so easily. But I really hope you can acknowledge these things.

My culture, essentially, is a very non-Christian one.

Many of my childhood friends were non-Christian because Christianity is a minority in Korea anyway.

I was exposed with folk religions, shamanism and Buddhism from the early age because they are everywhere in Korea.

Although I did not acknowledge them at first, I eventually learned to see from their perspectives once I ditched Christianity.

I hope I did not waste my time typing these things.

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In my case I was born and bred with Christian worldview and didn't know anything else. I just didn't go with the crowd. And I don't think faith itself is a virtue anymore. So I find other people's opinion on faith rather amusing and even disturbing.

I remember some of your posts, and I am pretty darn sure you won't rethink your belief and opinion so easily. But I really hope you can acknowledge these things.

My culture, essentially, is a very non-Christian one.

Many of my childhood friends were non-Christian because Christianity is a minority in Korea anyway.

I was exposed with folk religions, shamanism and Buddhism from the early age because they are everywhere in Korea.

Although I did not acknowledge them at first, I eventually learned to see from their perspectives once I ditched Christianity.

I hope I did not waste my time typing these things.

I think if there is a God, he knows your heart and whatever choices you make in life, if you a good person he will not abandon you. God knows his own. What ever theological or spiritual choices you make in life I wish only the best for you. For what it's worth, you have my blessing.
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A few days ago I worked for a Netflix show. Some of the extras got into a conversation on religion and one black lady was an adamant Evangelical.

And...she refused to acknowledge the perspectives from OTHER religions. She summed them up as Satan's deception. And I came to realize that convincing them to acknowledge that there are religions with different views is a waste of them. They won't listen. Or at best, they won't react.

Consider this. Most people who are firm atheists are exactly the same was as that woman. They are right everybody else is wrong and there is no possible argument anyone can make to convince them otherwise.

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Consider this. Most people who are firm atheists are exactly the same was as that woman. They are right everybody else is wrong and there is no possible argument anyone can make to convince them otherwise.

Oh dear, yes, see Dawkins. He's more tolerant and open to other people's ways of looking at things? :unsure:
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