Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Smelting


back to earth

Recommended Posts

Hi. I have been making bismuth crystals . The ones that aren't as good, I re melt and add to the mass.

The oxides float on top of the molten mass and I skim them off and dump them in a container. After a while, I re metal all of this and get some metal at the bottom and pour it out. Over time the mass of my metal has decreased and the mass of the slag has increased. I ground it up and it is full of small metallic particles. When I try to remelt this it doesnt work, the surface tension of the droplets holds and the metal stays suspended in the ash.

I have tried winnowing , washing and picking, all far too tedious and inefficient. Its diamagnetic so I cant extract it that way.

Any hints ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Have you tried adding some kind of flux? Like limestone, which was used to get impurities out of iron when making steel?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_(metallurgy)

....and of rendering slag more liquid at the smelting temperature.

Try grinding the slag up really fine if you can.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you tried a centrifuge to separate different densities?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you tried adding some kind of flux? Like limestone, which was used to get impurities out of iron when making steel?

https://en.wikipedia...lux_(metallurgy)

Try grinding the slag up really fine if you can.

Thanks, I'll check that out.

Slag is finely ground , I then sifted it down through a wire t-strainer ( blergh ! I'll never pour my tea through that again .)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you tried a centrifuge to separate different densities?

No .... centrifuge eh ! If you saw my 'lab' :D ( hint, if I was married my wife would kill me, after what I have done to the stove and some of the cutlery .... devil_smiley_005.gif

actually, I am quite impressed with myself < huffs breath on to nails, polishes them on shirt > in how I have got around the previously arisen problems ; trying to get a lab quality crystal without a lab or equipment .

I wonder if I could make a 'centrifuge' ?

Edited by back to earth
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some scary stuff in that link... I've just started down the bismuth path meself with 500g (cost me A$33).. and I too lose a fair bit to oxidation but i think i'll just fork out for some more..

I haven't nailed any real masterpieces yet, but geez it's amazing stuff and a lot of fun! Be back later with some pics.

For anyone wondering what on earth this is all about... Bismuth is an elemental metal that has a low melting point and as it re-solidifies it forms intricate 'stair-step' crystals in beautiful rainbow colors.. eg from the Wiki:

220px-Wismut_Kristall_und_1cm3_Wuerfel.jpg

Yes, you can do that at home.. :D

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No .... centrifuge eh ! If you saw my 'lab' :D ( hint, if I was married my wife would kill me, after what I have done to the stove and some of the cutlery .... devil_smiley_005.gif

actually, I am quite impressed with myself < huffs breath on to nails, polishes them on shirt > in how I have got around the previously arisen problems ; trying to get a lab quality crystal without a lab or equipment .

I wonder if I could make a 'centrifuge' ?

Uh, depends on your mechanical and engineering acumen. Since you're dealing with a molten substance that is spinning about, rapidly, you'd want to get it right and be very careful.
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Uh, depends on your mechanical and engineering acumen. Since you're dealing with a molten substance that is spinning about, rapidly, you'd want to get it right and be very careful.

Ahhh ... I thought you meant crushing and spinning the oxide . Spinning the molten mass ! - actually it doesnt turn into a mol;en mass. its slag and ask with small particles of metal in it. I heated it no melting ( just the tiny particles within it became liquid and stayed suspended within.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some scary stuff in that link... I've just started down the bismuth path meself with 500g (cost me A$33).. and I too lose a fair bit to oxidation but i think i'll just fork out for some more..

I get it @ $50 per kilo from Consolidated Alloys , but they have a $150 min order. Where does yours come from ? I would love to be able to top up mine with another 500g for $33 ! - I cant afford another 3 kilos at the moment.

So, fill me in ! What have you done so far and how have you done it. I have discovered some interesting methods.

I haven't nailed any real masterpieces yet, but geez it's amazing stuff and a lot of fun! Be back later with some pics.

Excellent, do that! I cant post pics both computer and phone are barely working at the moment .

The other day I noticed an unusual oblong shape forming on top so I moved it to the middle of the mass and away from the solidifying sides. Got a surprise when I lifted it out ... it ended up looking like the Empire State building of Alycone 7 (or some other alien place ) ... pretty cool, but the detail was a little fuzzy .

For anyone wondering what on earth this is all about... Bismuth is an elemental metal that has a low melting point and as it re-solidifies it forms intricate 'stair-step' crystals in beautiful rainbow colors.. eg from the Wiki:

220px-Wismut_Kristall_und_1cm3_Wuerfel.jpg

Yes, you can do that at home.. :D

Damned if I can get that bright green and pink colour ! I can get deep purple through to bright electric blue aqua, gold with a tinge of pink.

What's your process ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Damned if I can get that bright green and pink colour ! I can get deep purple through to bright electric blue aqua, gold with a tinge of pink.

Post some pics please....... :nw:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

B2E, that pic isn't my stuff (wish it was..) - I'm getting the same range as you describe - mostly a sort of bluish-pinkish-violetish sorta colour with bits of gold-orange (but what would I know, I'm partly colorblind..).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I am presuming it is done by restricting oxygen in the atmosphere the crystal is extracted into when it comes out of the molten mass.

In my observation, the best crystals are formed under the surface, and that is a tricky place to work ! I have tried doing the method with a pour off and getting some crystals that can remain stuck to the base and sides , and getting some that form down from the surface, they are more like a landscape, with the crystals more like a flattened pattern ( good for jewellery, earrings, pendants or 'landscapes' for setting in.

The idea is to cool the interior of the mass while the exterior and surface cool slower. Tricky business. Also considering thermal convection currents and the fast that the crystals float in the molten metal ( another weird property of Bi - it expands when it 'freezes' ) .

Not having a sealed electric furnace where I can drop the temp .1 of a deg over an hour that can be in a gas chamber .... :whistle: ... I tried the following;

suspended a bolt head so the curved head just broke the surface of the molten Bi, now the threaded bolt is upright, like a cooling tower, I got a length of thin plastic tubing and blew air on to the bolt thread to cool it. Also some tricks in knowing when to lift it ( this is why I want more metal, to increase the mass I am working with , the crystal wants to grow bigger but it hits the bottom of the crucible ) . Some times it is a blob, other times amazing things are attached to it ! :)

Strangely , it seems to like to form a small crystal and then, one of the branches out from that makes the bigger more complex ones. Also strangely this process forms other crystals on the side that are not stuck to the side, after the main one is lifted out. I fish around and feel for them under the surface (with a heated wire, a butter knife and fork :) and move them into the molten centre. Then I use hot knives to run around the inside of the crystals forming on the s inner sides of the crucible so the don't join up with the centre. I lift them with the hot fork and knife .

Today I tried a new idea. I coiled wire around a tube tightly then removed the tube, one end was straight, this I suspended into the mass and blew the wire coil with the air tube ....

wow! :w00t: I lifted out the wire, a little blob around where the surface was with a few pyramids, but then under that a series of flattish interlaced stairs, Mayan pyramids in pink silver gold peacock purple ... it is an amazing 'broach' , as it is. Then next to it I fished out a larger square one with repeated copies of itself inside, like a fractal.

This wire thing works great ! Sorry I cant post a pic, as I said above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not my pics, but the broach one was like this, with three main parts hanging 'down' and a flat part across the upper other side

tumblr_nrqvsfGDB31uafitzo3_1280.jpg

and my square one was like one of these

one lifted straight after the other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Damn censorship

.... one of these then ;

... sorry my computer is really playing up

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, that is cool, and thanks for all the ideas...! I got mine from Northern Smelters, in Underwood/Woodridge, just S of Brisbane. Are you anywhere near? I guess they will ship it, but it was near enough for me to just drop by and collect it - $65 for a kilo, 32.50 for 500g, sold in granules. Nice people there - they love to talk metals and crystals and stuff!

As for my methodology.. I have none whatsoever, just used a small stainless steel bowl over a low gas flame and a fork to play with it, pulling out bits as it cooled... :D

Next try I might use the oven and see if I can get a slower cooldown, also maybe try using a loop of wire in the metal to use as a seed and grab handle so I can bring it up and down or angle it to get more/different growth patterns. I too saw one of those oblong lumps, I presume they get pushed up as the crystals grow down.. unfortunately by the time I spotted it the solidification had gone too far, dang..

I will get another 500g I think, so I have a bit more room to move..

Probably won't have time over the next few nights to do any new stuff but might post some of my crude first efforts before I remelt them..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yes please !

I was supposed to get mine in pellets, but it came in a huge slab .... Ooooooo ! :) ... slab !

BISMUTHSLAB-2.jpg?1433496871

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting development; now only silver coloured crystals ... no oxidization, not if I pour and and not on the surface of the cooled solid metal mass I work with .... all silver . I cant get any colours at all. :unsure2:

Edited by back to earth
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

1497780_801889419827750_2016153936_n.jpg?oh=78c9b1dc71c79cf57a0d103713678beb&oe=56853686

I also make crystals like the one above that 1 weighs a kilo I do make the more typical easier to make types in a geode type as well as some ouroboros jewelery ones to I did try powdering the metal too but had the same issue as you it wouldnt melt the only way I found to reconstitute the metal was using a chefs hand held torch it does a bit at a time but I reconstituted the 2kg of powdered metal needless to say Ive not done it since :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.