Anomalocaris Posted July 28, 2015 #1 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Two German researchers claim they have produced measurable amounts of thrust using a copy of NASA’s controversial EMDrive. It’s a result that has many people talking, but don’t plan your trip to the to the Alpha Centauri system just yet—the experts we spoke with are all highly skeptical of the study and its findings. No, German Scientists Have Not Confirmed the “Impossible” EMDrive Edited July 28, 2015 by Anomalocaris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted July 28, 2015 #2 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I not sure how it is supposed to work, but I hope that it does. If energy = propulsion without mass loss, then interstellar travel will become that much more possible. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted July 29, 2015 #3 Share Posted July 29, 2015 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/space/11769030/Impossible-rocket-drive-works-and-could-get-to-Moon-in-four-hours.html However scientists still have no idea how it actually works. Nasa suggested that it could have something to do with the technology manipulating subatomic particles which constantly pop in and out of existence in empty space. So maybe because it has a wider chamber at one end, then it hit more of these "virtual" particles? Even then, I do not know how that would be transferred to the physical device as thrust. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted July 29, 2015 #4 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Well I see no other explanation for this new EMDrive except that it was reverse-engineered from Alien technology. Either way, this is super exciting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted July 29, 2015 #5 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Interesting potential development. Hoping it is further studied by independent professionals and, if true, can be reasonably optimized. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred_mc Posted July 29, 2015 #6 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Well I see no other explanation for this new EMDrive except that it was reverse-engineered from Alien technology. Either way, this is super exciting Well, I think it is more likely that the discovery was made by accident. After all, many of the great discoveries are made by accident, penicillin is a well-known example of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastieRunner Posted July 29, 2015 #7 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Doesn't the EMDrive require a ton of energy to get going at first, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted July 29, 2015 #8 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Well, I think it is more likely that the discovery was made by accident. After all, many of the great discoveries are made by accident, penicillin is a well-known example of that. As well as Nitinol and, before that, the microwave oven. Neither before penicillin, of course. Doesn't the EMDrive require a ton of energy to get going at first, though? Hmm. not sure, but likely, yes. Edited July 29, 2015 by pallidin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastieRunner Posted July 29, 2015 #9 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) It also needs to have a peer-reviewed test. Edited July 29, 2015 by BeastieRunner 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted July 29, 2015 #10 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) It also needs to have a peer-reviewed test. Indeed. That will be paramount as to effect-authentication. Edited July 29, 2015 by pallidin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted July 29, 2015 #11 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) I am one of those who is, let's say "extremely skeptical" of the alleged results. Within what we know regarding physics, it is impossible to produce thrust without some form of propellant/reaction mass. What I consider more likely is that any "thrust" measured either by NASA or these German scientists was the action of a field effect (perhaps magnetic) generated within the engine and extending outside it, impacting on the measuring devices used. So, the engine isn't producing any actual 'thrust', but the field has a direction of force like any other bipolar field, and this direction of force is what is being measured. Edited July 29, 2015 by Leonardo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted July 29, 2015 #12 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I am one of those who is, let's say "extremely skeptical" of the alleged results. Within what we know regarding physics, it is impossible to produce thrust without some form of propellant/reaction mass. What I consider more likely is that any "thrust" measured either by NASA or these German scientists was the action of a field effect (perhaps magnetic) generated within the engine and extending outside it, impacting on the measuring devices used. So, the engine isn't producing any actual 'thrust', but the field has a direction of force like any other bipolar field, and this direction of force is what is being measured. This issue is a special EM S/T "warp", which theoretically can produce motion. As other's have said, though, this needs to be verified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperiorIntellect Posted July 29, 2015 #13 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Some additional information here: https://hacked.com/scientists-confirm-impossible-em-drive-propulsion/ I love these bits (my bold): "First proposed by Satellite Propulsion Research, a research company based in the UK founded by aerospace engineer Roger Shawyer, the EM Drive concept was predictably scorned by much of the mainstream research community for allegedly violating the laws of physics, including the conservation of momentum ... Shawyer has often been dismissed by the research establishment for not having peer-reviewed scientific publications, but White and Tajmar have impeccable credentials that put them beyond cheap dismissal and scorn." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted July 29, 2015 #14 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Some additional information here: https://hacked.com/s...ive-propulsion/ I love these bits (my bold): "First proposed by Satellite Propulsion Research, a research company based in the UK founded by aerospace engineer Roger Shawyer, the EM Drive concept was predictably scorned by much of the mainstream research community for allegedly violating the laws of physics, including the conservation of momentum ... Shawyer has often been dismissed by the research establishment for not having peer-reviewed scientific publications, but White and Tajmar have impeccable credentials that put them beyond cheap dismissal and scorn." Conservation of momentum does not exist as even a primary function in the quantum world. It's a macro-effect. Nothing in the quantum world is "normal" This drive, purportedly, interacts with the quantum field-state. How this plays-out, I guess we'll see, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandfunkrailroad Posted July 29, 2015 #15 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Well more bang for your buck is always nice Well more bang for your buck is always nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted July 29, 2015 #16 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) My insight is that the EMDrive is complete crap and a waste of time. I'm going to spend my time thinking about ideas that don't violate conservation of momentum. Now clearly intelligence is not an issue considering this fellow is a physicist, however I find it troubling that a man involved in such a field would make such a statement. A thought process like this is dangerous to progress. Edited July 29, 2015 by nuclearwessel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted July 29, 2015 #17 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Well I see no other explanation for this new EMDrive except that it was reverse-engineered from Alien technology. Either way, this is super exciting And why does this seem like the most likely explanation to you, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzy101 Posted July 29, 2015 #18 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) For anyone interested, here is a link to the paper on the Second generation EmDrive propulsion and how it is applied to a SSTO launcher and interstellar probe. http://www.sciencedi...094576515002726 Edited July 29, 2015 by muzzy101 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted July 29, 2015 #19 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Some additional information here: https://hacked.com/s...ive-propulsion/ I love these bits (my bold): "First proposed by Satellite Propulsion Research, a research company based in the UK founded by aerospace engineer Roger Shawyer, the EM Drive concept was predictably scorned by much of the mainstream research community for allegedly violating the laws of physics, including the conservation of momentum ... Shawyer has often been dismissed by the research establishment for not having peer-reviewed scientific publications, but White and Tajmar have impeccable credentials that put them beyond cheap dismissal and scorn." Which doesn't mean the "mainstream research community" are wrong. Yes, we all like to root for the underdog and it would be extremely exciting to witness the birth of a technology that could drastically improve our chances of achieving long distance space-travel, but that doesn't mean the 'underdog' is right, and our excitement doesn't make things which aren't true, true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_Bow Posted July 29, 2015 #20 Share Posted July 29, 2015 "Flying Saucers", "Spaceships" and "UFO's" are real and the aliens flying these craft are also real. They are modified, evolved humans in time machines from the very distant future, travelling back in time to see how earth was before we destroyed it. EMDrive is proof that NASA and humans are indeed making the necessary steps for flying craft that can defy the laws of physics to be invented and then in years to come, whether it's 50, 100, 250 or 5,000 years in to the future, craft that can move like nothing ever imagined will be a reality. More sophisticated and intelligent than the ones you see in Star Trek and other shows/movies. This is a step in that process. You nor I will be alive for me to be proved right but trust me, i am right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomalocaris Posted July 29, 2015 Author #21 Share Posted July 29, 2015 "Flying Saucers", "Spaceships" and "UFO's" are real and the aliens flying these craft are also real. They are modified, evolved humans in time machines from the very distant future, travelling back in time to see how earth was before we destroyed it. EMDrive is proof that NASA and humans are indeed making the necessary steps for flying craft that can defy the laws of physics to be invented and then in years to come, whether it's 50, 100, 250 or 5,000 years in to the future, craft that can move like nothing ever imagined will be a reality. More sophisticated and intelligent than the ones you see in Star Trek and other shows/movies. This is a step in that process. You nor I will be alive for me to be proved right but trust me, i am right. Your wild imagination and your gullibility are also veeeeeeeeeeeeeery real XD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Noteverythingisaconspiracy Posted July 29, 2015 #22 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) "Flying Saucers", "Spaceships" and "UFO's" are real and the aliens flying these craft are also real. They are modified, evolved humans in time machines from the very distant future, travelling back in time to see how earth was before we destroyed it. EMDrive is proof that NASA and humans are indeed making the necessary steps for flying craft that can defy the laws of physics to be invented and then in years to come, whether it's 50, 100, 250 or 5,000 years in to the future, craft that can move like nothing ever imagined will be a reality. More sophisticated and intelligent than the ones you see in Star Trek and other shows/movies. This is a step in that process. You nor I will be alive for me to be proved right but trust me, i am right. The level of evidence you have provided is certainly complelling. I mean how can people not believe in what you write when it is so well documented. (I might have used a little bit of sarcasm in the above paragraph) On a more serious note, even if this engine turn out to not need any propellant it would still need electrical power, so if the power to weight ratio is very low it might not actually be a viable engine. I suppose solar panel could provide electicity in the inner solar system, but in the outer solar system and interstellar space it would need to carry fuel for the electricity generator on board. Until we know more about the power consumption it is much to early to tell if it is a viable propulsion system. Do anyone have numbers on the power consumption and thrust levels in the experiments ? Edited July 29, 2015 by Noteverythingisaconspiracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted July 29, 2015 #23 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Do anyone have numbers on the power consumption and thrust levels in the experiments ? That should be in their paper, which I think was linked in the original OP article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted July 29, 2015 #24 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) The level of evidence you have provided is certainly complelling. I mean how can people not believe in what you write when it is so well documented. (I might have used a little bit of sarcasm in the above paragraph) On a more serious note, even if this engine turn out to not need any propellant it would still need electrical power, so if the power to weight ratio is very low it might not actually be a viable engine. I suppose solar panel could provide electicity in the inner solar system, but in the outer solar system and interstellar space it would need to carry fuel for the electricity generator on board. Until we know more about the power consumption it is much to early to tell if it is a viable propulsion system. Do anyone have numbers on the power consumption and thrust levels in the experiments ? RTG, and other nuclear additions, would solve this. I think? Might, though, require a very robust nuclear generator. Not sure, but I would imagine so. Edited July 29, 2015 by pallidin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Noteverythingisaconspiracy Posted July 29, 2015 #25 Share Posted July 29, 2015 That should be in their paper, which I think was linked in the original OP article. I can only see the first page on the original paper. RTG, and other nuclear additions, would solve this. I think? Might, though, require a very robust nuclear generator. Not sure, but I would imagine so. They really need to test this in orbit to make sure that it works without any outside influence. If it does work, a solar powered version of this could be terrific for missions to Mars. Even if the acceleration should prove to be limited, that doesn't matter too much for unmanned payloads. If it doesn't work......... back to the good old rockets ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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