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Another case of cops killing


docyabut2

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http://www.msn.com/e...stop/ar-AAdIu1z

I would like to know why in the training of cops, that they are program to feel they can`t just let anyone go trying to run away from the law ,and feel they are not doing their job and have to stop them at all cost even by shooting.I can see if there was a bodily harm to the cop.But why are they not train to just let people go in some situations. this guy stopped the cop from opening up the door and started his car to run and the cop just shot him.

Edited by docyabut2
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Tensing has said he thought he was going to be dragged under the car and "feared for his life," according to Mathews.

I don't think you understand how many times nervous situations play out involving police daily, and all of the situations that end in the right way.

It reminds me of working at my job. I have been doing my job a long time. I know what I'm doing, and I do it well. But of course, there are always going to be customers coming around alluding to the idea that I don't know what I'm doing because something they don't like happened. Their assumption is based in ignorance, and it really bothers me because I can't sit down and explain to them all I have to do, why, and all of the surrounding work related things that paint the picture of why things are the way they are. Instead, I have to bottle my annoyance when they act like they know how to do my job better than me.

This type of angering encounter I listed above happens in every job.. including law enforcement.

I dislike and fear seeing cops driving around me just as much as the other guy, but I can take a step back and understand that they are doing their job, and almost all of the time, they know what they are doing and do it well. I wouldn't be so bold as to be that jerk customer who thinks I know how a cop should do their job, but I do know enough to understand that every situation a cop comes into can be a life or death one, and that deadly game isn't one that armchair jurors should take lightly.

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We really don't know what the cop was thinking when this all took place. He's young and not as experienced as some other cops and maybe he really thought he was about to be run over by the offender in this case. One never knows how you will react in a case like this until it happens and the fear of your own death can make you do a lot of things.

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We really don't know what the cop was thinking when this all took place. He's young and not as experienced as some other cops and maybe he really thought he was about to be run over by the offender in this case. One never knows how you will react in a case like this until it happens and the fear of your own death can make you do a lot of things.

maybe the body cam didn't captured everything, but they did say the cop was down on the ground.

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I don't think you understand how many times nervous situations play out involving police daily, and all of the situations that end in the right way.

It reminds me of working at my job. I have been doing my job a long time. I know what I'm doing, and I do it well. But of course, there are always going to be customers coming around alluding to the idea that I don't know what I'm doing because something they don't like happened. Their assumption is based in ignorance, and it really bothers me because I can't sit down and explain to them all I have to do, why, and all of the surrounding work related things that paint the picture of why things are the way they are. Instead, I have to bottle my annoyance when they act like they know how to do my job better than me.

This type of angering encounter I listed above happens in every job.. including law enforcement.

I dislike and fear seeing cops driving around me just as much as the other guy, but I can take a step back and understand that they are doing their job, and almost all of the time, they know what they are doing and do it well. I wouldn't be so bold as to be that jerk customer who thinks I know how a cop should do their job, but I do know enough to understand that every situation a cop comes into can be a life or death one, and that deadly game isn't one that armchair jurors should take lightly.

No they're not. They're job is to take care of the public. In today's America LEO's are taught that their #1 job is to get themselves home at all costs. That has devolved into an us vs them mentality.

I do find it encouraging that the coverage of this case has focused on police abuse instead of race. Every time a cop kills someone and it becomes a "race issue" the majority of Americans just ignore it as if it wont happen to them.

History is important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!First they came for the blacks .........

Edited by Farmer77
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They're job is to take care of the public.

This is the mentality that I was referring to in general above. Their job description is far more than that, which encompasses having to do many things that you don't completely understand.

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Here is a link that shows why Police don't get indited more often. I understand they need a wider discretion however, cameras are proving some are flat out murdering people.

Grand Jury System, With Exceptions, Favors the Police in Fatalities: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/08/nyregion/grand-juries-seldom-charge-police-officers-in-fatal-actions.html

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363ce187434d010b406474b3b4f3f05d.jpg

~

Building Trust Between the Police and the Citizens They Serve: An Internal Affairs Promising Practices Guide for Local Law Enforcement

This project was supported by Cooperative Agreement Number 2007-CK-WX-K011 awarded by the Office of Community Oriented Policing Services, U.S. Department of

Justice. The opinions contained herein are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official position of the U.S. Department of Justice. References to specific agencies, companies, products, or services should not be considered an endorsement by the authors or the U.S. Department of Justice. Rather, the references are illustrations to supplement discussion of the issues.

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This is the mentality that I was referring to in general above. Their job description is far more than that, which encompasses having to do many things that you don't completely understand.

LMAO I am a 15 year EMS veteran with several years in Law Enforcement. I know these people, how they are selected, how they are taught to think and how they are trained (there are three kinds of people in the world in their eyes: COPS , OFFENDERS and PEOPLE WHO HAVENT YET BEEN CAUGHT OFFENDING) its truly an us vs them mentality. Their job description has only expanded with their departments greed and egos. Take away the expensive toys which give them a false sense of security and watch their job descriptions shrink back to where it should be : helping people.

Edited by Farmer77
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I think the discussion is totally being manipulated. The media cannot wait for these stories as if civilians are all peace loving hippies and the mean old cops are shooting them for target practice. When this society stops being the gang dominated drug dens, where any traffic stop might be the cops last, then maybe they will stop being so trigger happy. Look at Memphis. We have a story of a 12 year old boy down in Orlando chasing and shooting at a tranny, and a gang of teens robbing stores and breaking into a 91 year old woman's house, beating and shooting her. Of course those stories don't make the news, but it's just another day in the hood. But the hood is in every town big and small now. If you want to have an impact on the quality of life, teach kids their behavior matters. It seems the message is, keep doing what you are doing, you have the right to resist cops, break laws, sit in your car and get drunk and drive around town, refuse to give your information to a cop, take off running if you want, and when something bad happens to you, its not your fault. We are basically saying these hoodlums are too dumb to be responsible.

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Regarding this particular case, did anyone happen to watch Nancy Grace last week ? She did do something that I thought was interesting. Her video people slowed the film clip down as much as possible and showed it frame by frame. They touched on an explanation of why it's still not smooth is because the body cams save every third frame.

I swear I saw I couple of things that I was surprised other people haven't talked about during the free for all of hands inside the car. It looked to me as if this guy did elevate his left arm, bent at the elbow to hide the fact that his right hand was going forward to the ignition. That was when the cop reaches in with his left hand and possibly ran amuck with that move. Almost the very next frame shows the cop's gun, so it was almost drawn immediately.

I hope someone else did watch that and will share what they saw in it. It did make me think that there was at least some validation to what the cop said happened and made me wonder why the DA made the statements he did totally throwing him to the wolves. It was pretty obvious on that video the guy was pretty drunk (I haven't seen real mention of that either) That made me think that the cop's reflexes might just have been triggered by not wanting the drunk to just drive away. Does it show a total lack of training, yes but I was left feeling that doesn't equate to the murder charge.

Edited by Vincennes
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Regarding this particular case, did anyone happen to watch Nancy Grace last week ? She did do something that I thought was interesting. Her video people slowed the film clip down as much as possible and showed it frame by frame. They touched on an explanation of why it's still not smooth is because the body cams save every third frame.

I swear I saw I couple of things that I was surprised other people haven't talked about during the free for all of hands inside the car. It looked to me as if this guy did elevate his left arm, bent at the elbow to hide the fact that his right hand was going forward to the ignition. That was when the cop reaches in with his left hand and possibly ran amuck with that move. Almost the very next frame shows the cop's gun, so it was almost drawn immediately.

I hope someone else did watch that and will share what they saw in it. It did make me think that there was at least some validation to what the cop said happened and made me wonder why the DA made the statements he did totally throwing him to the wolves.

I can't tell what's happening from the video I watched. I need to find a better version. I think the DA contends, and maybe I am wrong, but he seems to be saying the car accelerated because the man was already dead from a gunshot to the head. I do think the DA kept talking about how he did not think campus police should be peace officers, but the city should be providing that. It almost seems like a local issue, that must be simmering in the background of this. Perhaps it's a sign of bias against campus cops or maybe there have been other local issues with campus cops. Some of the talking heads are saying, he should never have reached into the car, and should have let him drive off. I wonder if this drunk had sped around the corner and ran over 3 kids and killed them what the headline would be. I have to say, I don't know why any sane person would even want to be cop today. We had one dragged and left for dead just the other day in Jacksonville. I have to smh.

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I can't tell what's happening from the video I watched. I need to find a better version. I think the DA contends, and maybe I am wrong, but he seems to be saying the car accelerated because the man was already dead from a gunshot to the head. I do think the DA kept talking about how he did not think campus police should be peace officers, but the city should be providing that. It almost seems like a local issue, that must be simmering in the background of this. Perhaps it's a sign of bias against campus cops or maybe there have been other local issues with campus cops. Some of the talking heads are saying, he should never have reached into the car, and should have let him drive off. I wonder if this drunk had sped around the corner and ran over 3 kids and killed them what the headline would be. I have to say, I don't know why any sane person would even want to be cop today. We had one dragged and left for dead just the other day in Jacksonville. I have to smh.

I hope you find another site where they have slowed this down, frame by frame. I was sitting there astounded that no one commented on what I saw in that the guy's right arm and hand went right for that ignition. There was one other thing that seemed to me was present in just those two frames, I swear I heard that car start. It's just a blip of audio on two frames, so it goes by in an instant even when it's slowed down. I do hope you can find a copy of it that way and tell me if I'm crazy or if you see/hear it too.

I think that this might be a photo op for the Cincinnati DA/LE to grab. They are blasting about their community/LE program which they taut as first in the country. Did it only take them just a few hours to decide they have an opportunity here to make themselves look even better and throwing this guy away ? I want to slam my head on the desk here and ask why, why, why, does it always seem, one way or the other that there is more of a political agenda going on that is more important than doing the right thing.

Just the way I feel right now, perhaps more will come out later.

I did find this link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/07/29/prosecutors-to-announce-conclusion-of-probe-into-cincinnati-campus-police-shooting/

All I'm referencing it for is PHOTO # 1 - That hand is on the ignition.

Edited by Vincennes
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I hope you find another site where they have slowed this down, frame by frame. I was sitting there astounded that no one commented on what I saw in that the guy's right arm and hand went right for that ignition. There was one other thing that seemed to me was present in just those two frames, I swear I heard that car start. It's just a blip of audio on two frames, so it goes by in an instant even when it's slowed down. I do hope you can find a copy of it that way and tell me if I'm crazy or if you see/hear it too.

I think that this might be a photo op for the Cincinnati DA/LE to grab. They are blasting about their community/LE program which they taut as first in the country. Did it only take them just a few hours to decide they have an opportunity here to make themselves look even better and throwing this guy away ? I want to slam my head on the desk here and ask why, why, why, does it always seem, one way or the other that there is more of a political agenda going on that is more important than doing the right thing.

Just the way I feel right now, perhaps more will come out later.

I did find this link: http://www.washingto...olice-shooting/

All I'm referencing it for is PHOTO # 1 - That hand is on the ignition.

Thanks for the link. I was able to watch that and can see that Dubose did start the car. At that point the cop seem to be reaching in to grab the keys, but he drew his gun with his other hand. It seems dubose was pushing his arms back and the cop shot him in the face. It does seem he was most likely dead when the car accelerated. Was it intentional murder? I am not sure they will get any intentional murder charge. I think the cop may have shot by accident. He should have never pulled the gun in my opinion. He should have stepped back. I am not a cop, and probably should not be giving advice, but I can understand what one talking head was saying. I am thinking a jury gives him manslaughter or even less. I doubt it is attitude, more training. The cop took unnecessary risks, in my opinion, and the cop made a very bad call. It could have easily ended in his own death.

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Thanks for the link. I was able to watch that and can see that Dubose did start the car. At that point the cop seem to be reaching in to grab the keys, but he drew his gun with his other hand. It seems dubose was pushing his arms back and the cop shot him in the face. It does seem he was most likely dead when the car accelerated. Was it intentional murder? I am not sure they will get any intentional murder charge. I think the cop may have shot by accident. He should have never pulled the gun in my opinion. He should have stepped back. I am not a cop, and probably should not be giving advice, but I can understand what one talking head was saying. I am thinking a jury gives him manslaughter or even less. I doubt it is attitude, more training. The cop took unnecessary risks, in my opinion, and the cop made a very bad call. It could have easily ended in his own death.

Exactly what I saw too :tu: What gave the cop an additional nod from me was the fact that he was being totally polite to the guy even after he is handed a bottle of Gin !

I also agree with you that what this shows is a lack of training. The cop put his own life at risk reaching into the car. I also watched a video of one of the Mayor's conferences, bragging that he was a councilman and headed up the committee which reformed their police training. He was asked if the UC cops were in anyway included in that training and answered, "No, that was an oversight." Well I guess maybe it was ! And if you headed up that committee whose feet does that little oversight on ?

Another comment I've heard a couple of times that grinds me is "That guy shouldn't even have been a police officer." Well, you group of mealy-mouth politicians, who was in charge of the standards of that psychological profile before you all handed him his gun ???

You know what I think is the second worst part of this those same politicians have now set themselves up for a RIOT when a jury finds even the lower charge of manslaughter because of their own inflammatory rhetoric. Disgraceful !

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I think the discussion is totally being manipulated. The media cannot wait for these stories as if civilians are all peace loving hippies and the mean old cops are shooting them for target practice. When this society stops being the gang dominated drug dens, where any traffic stop might be the cops last, then maybe they will stop being so trigger happy. Look at Memphis. We have a story of a 12 year old boy down in Orlando chasing and shooting at a tranny, and a gang of teens robbing stores and breaking into a 91 year old woman's house, beating and shooting her. Of course those stories don't make the news, but it's just another day in the hood. But the hood is in every town big and small now. If you want to have an impact on the quality of life, teach kids their behavior matters. It seems the message is, keep doing what you are doing, you have the right to resist cops, break laws, sit in your car and get drunk and drive around town, refuse to give your information to a cop, take off running if you want, and when something bad happens to you, its not your fault. We are basically saying these hoodlums are too dumb to be responsible.

NO we are simply saying that DEATH is a bit harsh of a punishment for 99.99999% (100%IMO but ill give you the .1%) of all crimes. Also , death sentences should not be carried out by police in the streets - this seems like a pretty basic 1st world principle.

There is a simple solution to all of this: disarm the freaking police. Hold law enforcement firearms in a central facility until there is a verified armed assailant. Let them have billy clubs, bear spray, body armor and bean bag shotguns. If these uniformed police officers weren't armed to the teeth i'll bet they would stay out of peoples business until called upon, as it should be.

For the record cops killed 121 people in America in July

Edited by Farmer77
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NO we are simply saying that DEATH is a bit harsh of a punishment for 99.99999% (100%IMO but ill give you the .1%) of all crimes. Also , death sentences should not be carried out by police in the streets - this seems like a pretty basic 1st world principle.

There is a simple solution to all of this: disarm the freaking police. Hold law enforcement firearms in a central facility until there is a verified armed assailant. Let them have billy clubs, bear spray, body armor and bean bag shotguns. If these uniformed police officers weren't armed to the teeth i'll bet they would stay out of peoples business until called upon, as it should be.

For the record cops killed 121 people in America in July

Yeah disarm the police. great idea. then what? let them be slaughtered? what planet you live on?

for the record we have over 14k murders a year in America. most are young men killing other young men. we need to talk honestly about that. 500 cops were killed last year and they were armed.

Edited by mbrn30000
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Exactly what I saw too :tu: What gave the cop an additional nod from me was the fact that he was being totally polite to the guy even after he is handed a bottle of Gin !

I also agree with you that what this shows is a lack of training. The cop put his own life at risk reaching into the car. I also watched a video of one of the Mayor's conferences, bragging that he was a councilman and headed up the committee which reformed their police training. He was asked if the UC cops were in anyway included in that training and answered, "No, that was an oversight." Well I guess maybe it was ! And if you headed up that committee whose feet does that little oversight on ?

Another comment I've heard a couple of times that grinds me is "That guy shouldn't even have been a police officer." Well, you group of mealy-mouth politicians, who was in charge of the standards of that psychological profile before you all handed him his gun ???

You know what I think is the second worst part of this those same politicians have now set themselves up for a RIOT when a jury finds even the lower charge of manslaughter because of their own inflammatory rhetoric. Disgraceful !

you are right. the talk is not helpful and divisive. I am not sure how we should train cops. Basically if cops should ignore certain types of crimes then laws are nothing more than suggestions. I am thinking in Baltimore, the cops have stopped being proactive. proactive policing means to make contact with potential lawbreakers for traffic offenses and see what they are up to. It's probable cause abuse some say, but it takes guns off the street and bad guys too. Cops in Baltimore have stopped this practice and they just had the highest murder count last month ever. And this month has already had two more, not counting the number of shootings. Proactive policing works. This cop was doing that in this stop. But he messed up big time, and one man is dead and he most likely will do prison time if not for life.

Edited by mbrn30000
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Yeah disarm the police. great idea. then what? let them be slaughtered? what planet you live on?

My first instinct was to say better them than us but thats a bit simplistic and juvenile . Look at the statistics they are killing us at a much higher rate than we are killing them - and dont fool yourself it is US vs THEM. The threats cops face are very real however for the vast majority of police officers their guns will never be drawn in self defense- they will draw them offensively, on families at traffic stops or school aged children playing airsoft.

The biggest threat to my children s safety at this moment is overzealous law enforcement. Again if they stay home and come when called most of this will be mitigated

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you are right. the talk is not helpful and divisive. I am not sure how we should train cops. Basically if cops should ignore certain types of crimes then laws are nothing more than suggestions. I am thinking in Baltimore, the cops have stopped being proactive. proactive policing means to make contact with potential lawbreakers for traffic offenses and see what they are up to. It's probable cause abuse some say, but it takes guns off the street and bad guys too. Cops in Baltimore have stopped this practice and they just had the highest murder count last month ever. And this month has already had two more, not counting the number of shootings. Proactive policing works. This cop was doing that in this stop. But he messed up big time, and one man is dead and he most likely will do prison time if not for life.

Proactive policing gets people killed and is very very borderline constitutionally IMO (certainly not a constitutional scholar)

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Proactive policing gets people killed and is very very borderline constitutionally IMO (certainly not a constitutional scholar)

If the founders had to form a country now, with our gangs, drug violence, guns, I am sure the constitution would look much different. I agree, cops cannot act as judge, jury and executioner, but I would rather they do than the criminals. Police are just part of a greater societal issue about violence, economics, and cultural issues. Too many kids have no guidance on how to become successful in society. It's amazing that immigrants can do amazing things in this country, but native born americans see no opportunity. How do you get native born americans to believe they can make it, and think that it's worth it. I think for young blacks, especially in poor areas, think the only options they have is sports, rapping or drug dealing. They are completely unaware or perhaps even contemptible of the growing black middle and upper middle class. these news stories are celebrating the failures and the world ignores black teachers, doctors, lawyers, bankers, police officers, firefighters, professionals and workers of all types. it is not the state of America, but it is the state of too many zip codes. Demonizing cops is not the answer. Telling the truth to these lost souls might be a good start. Their behavior matters.

Edited by mbrn30000
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If the founders had to form a country now, with our gangs, drug violence, guns, I am sure the constitution would look much different. I agree, cops cannot act as judge, jury and executioner, but I would rather they do than the criminals. Police are just part of a greater societal issue about violence, economics, and cultural issues. Too many kids have no guidance on how to become successful in society. It's amazing that immigrants can do amazing things in this country, but native americans see no opportunity. How do you get native americans to believe they can make it, and think that it's worth it. I think for young blacks, especially in poor areas, think the only options they have is sports, rapping or drug dealing. They are completely unaware or perhaps even contemptible of the growing black middle and upper middle class. these news stories are celebrating the failures and the world ignores black teachers, doctors, lawyers, bankers, police officers, firefighters, professionals and workers of all types. it is not the state of America, but it is the state of too many zip codes. Demonizing cops is not the answer. Telling the truth to these lost souls might be a good start. Their behavior matters.

Im not trying to demonize anyone. As i stated in an earlier post ive been in EMS for a long time and anecdotal evidence, including my own LE training (one of the very first things i was taught was you can beat the hell out of a suspect as long as you keep saying "stop resisting") , and statistical evidence show that police in America are out of control. The poor whom you mention feel disenfranchised and it starts with the overly armed officers who view them as the enemy. Human nature being what it is , anyone who puts on fatigues, bullet proof vests and then straps guns on his hip is going to act in a manner which displays agression and dominance. Throw in untold amounts of training which (to paraphrase) says constitution and everything else be damned all that counts is that you A. Get the arrest and B. get home and you have a recipe for disaster. Thats not even touching on what i think is a horrific tragedy in America today which is the hiring of military veterans and their host of mental issues, ptsd, institutionalized racism and combat training as police officers.

Police in america killed 121 people in July

Edited by Farmer77
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Im not trying to demonize anyone. As i stated in an earlier post ive been in EMS for a long time and anecdotal evidence, including my own LE training (one of the very first things i was taught was you can beat the hell out of a suspect as long as you keep saying "stop resisting") , and statistical evidence show that police in America are out of control. The poor whom you mention feel disenfranchised and it starts with the overly armed officers who view them as the enemy. Human nature being what it is , anyone who puts on fatigues, bullet proof vests and then straps guns on his hip is going to act in a manner which displays agression and dominance. Throw in untold amounts of training which (to paraphrase) says constitution and everything else be damned all that counts is that you A. Get the arrest and B. get home and you have a recipe for disaster. Thats not even touching on what i think is a horrific tragedy in America today which is the hiring of military veterans and their host of mental issues, ptsd, institutionalized racism and combat training as police officers.

Police in america killed 121 people in July

You are jumping to conclusions based on loose facts. name one case that PTSD played a role. Also how many of those 121 people were citizens of the year? How many were in fact shooting back? how many were white? black? how many cops were vets,black, white? All your number does is prove we are one violent society with lots of crime. I am not aware of any vet that has been linked to an unjustified shooting. I have no doubt vets need more help, but I think blaming rise in police shooting on them is not cited in anything I have read. I think police have good reason to fear not going home, and taking their vest away to make them feel more venerable is going in the wrong direction. that's why they are shooting so quickly. its not irrational fear. the bad guys are really bad guys. We didn't get all bent out of shape when they shot bonnie and clyde to pieces. We wouldn't allow that ambush today now would we.

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