California governor signs 'right to die' bill

[thedutchiedutch]

As California Gov. Jerry Brown pointed out Monday, ABX2 15 is not just any other piece of legislation: By definition, it's a matter of life and death.

"The crux of the matter is whether the state of California should continue to make it a crime for a dying person to end his life," Brown said, "no matter how great his pain and suffering." The governor made his perspective clear -- and made ABX2 15, which is also called the "End of Life Option Act," a statewide law -- when he signed the controversial legislation Monday.

Link to full article and source : http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/05/us/california-assisted-dying-legislation/index.html

[StarMountainKid]

I think that is a very good idea. This is my life, if I choose to end my pain and suffering, what has that to do with government regulations?

[+DieChecker]

I agree. We should have the right to request end of life medication.

[Wickian]

Well, if you're going to kill yourself it benefits the economy more to pay ridiculous prices for overpriced death-pills rather than a cheaper and more painful method. If you're committed to the act you're not going to care about price.

[Mikko-kun]

Why pay when you got all kinds of poisons everywhere. Just drink up some window cleaner or something with two bucks and get your last high from that while at it?

[Wickian]

Why pay when you got all kinds of poisons everywhere. Just drink up some window cleaner or something with two bucks and get your last high from that while at it?

Or they could just change sleeping pills to be what they used to be, nowadays you can't overdose on them. At least in California I read they changed the pills so you can't.

[Deleted]

Or they could just change sleeping pills to be what they used to be, nowadays you can't overdose on them. At least in California I read they changed the pills so you can't.

that explains why I am still alive..hahaha ....

anyway I think its a good thing on the other side it can be misused; f.e. a doctor killing countless people and somehow faking all paperwork... it needs to be strictly monitored, also some people make very fast decisions on emotions, for example someone experiences a phase of pain which after a period of time would go a way and the person would heal afterwards, but because of the tremendous pain he/she decides to die, thus there need to be good regulations in place.

[truthseeker68]

It seems to me that the only groups and individuals who oppose this are the ones who stand to lose money by no longer being able to provide a drug/drugs to help prolong the life of someone in pain. Or the Healthcare system to provide services to people who can't afford it...so the government (We) pay for it.

It is absolute nonsense to advocate ANYONE or any LAW to tell YOU as a person whether or not you can die when you choose to. If I found out today that I had some form of disease that would put me in a constant state of pain and discomfort...unless I take drugs of some sort...with numerous side affects I may add....I would absolutely decide for MYSELF whether or not I could live with this for however long I had left on this earth. NOONE should be able to tell me otherwise. Now...you could try and convince me one way or the other...but in the end it's MY choice. Not some man or woman sitting on a committee somewhere.

WTF is wrong with people..!!! Moronic individuals want to tell others when to be born...how to live...who to worship...what to buy...what not to buy...who I can or con not have sex with...(underage not included in this statement)...and now when I can or can not die...for F&^%'s sake America...wake up..wake up..WAKE UP..!!!!

[darkmoonlady]

Usually the ones against right to die are the same folks who are right to lifers. They think you should leave it up to God even if that means you suffer. They also get the disabled riled up too, and I can comment on that faction since I am in a wheelchair myself. The faction of the disabled against it fear that we will start putting people down who society deems as suffering not the person themselves. Basically what the Nazi's did to the disabled and mentally disabled. I think that is fear and propaganda, if I have a terminal illness and do not wish to suffer a long painful death, it should be a choice to end it quickly and not suffer.

[thedutchiedutch]

Usually the ones against right to die are the same folks who are right to lifers. They think you should leave it up to God even if that means you suffer. They also get the disabled riled up too, and I can comment on that faction since I am in a wheelchair myself. The faction of the disabled against it fear that we will start putting people down who society deems as suffering not the person themselves. Basically what the Nazi's did to the disabled and mentally disabled. I think that is fear and propaganda, if I have a terminal illness and do not wish to suffer a long painful death, it should be a choice to end it quickly and not suffer.

Well said Darkmoonlady

[robinrenee]

I don't understand what all this "right to die" stuff is about. Hospice has been letting people die painlessly for decades. I guess people just don't understand the process of dying.

I spent the last 20 years of my working career in emergency medicine. I got to know a lot of people who were dying. And I was with a lot of people when they died.

Hospice lets you live your life to the very end without pain. Granted, patients can spend the last few weeks stoned out of their minds on morphine and other opiates. But they can talk to and recognize their families until the last few hours. That's what I would want from anyone that I loved as they were dying. I wouldn't want them to cut anything short. In the last months there is sooo much love and so many wonderful conversations ... and real loving closure.

As the end nears, and as larger doses of morphine are needed, the patient sleeps more and more. Finally, the morphine puts the respiratory center to sleep and it's over.... painlessly.

"Right to die" on the other hand picks a day while the patient is still full of life. The family gathers and the patient overdoses on phenobarbital in their presence. I would be so p*ssed that I wouldn't even come to view it. Sooo as usual lately, our government has taken a beautiful moment for family and loved ones and turned it into a sideshow.

What's wrong with people?

Fear, I guess... the unknown... maybe. Expenses? Well, in the US, hospice is paid for by medicare. No matter what your age, when you become a hospice patient, it means that you are dying, and you're immediately eligible for medicare. Medicare pays for hospice.

Seems to me this "right to die" crapola just stresses patients and families over something they shouldn't have to stress over... let nature take its course... Take the pain medicine. And savor the love of your family and loved ones until your last pain free breath.

[Mikko-kun]

robinrenee, I dont know... my grandfather is 94, probably not seeing the next spring, so it's not like I don't know what you're talking about. It's just, you had a whole life there, so many years, decades, all that time to spend with the people you love. Why should there be loving moments only when you're about to die and prolong with for two weeks or months or even years for that reason? Isn't there something wrong if you live a long life and when you start getting weaker due to old age, only then realize the potential of loving you didn't see before? What about all those years when you were young and healthy? What happened to them?

[clare256]

that explains why I am still alive..hahaha ....

anyway I think its a good thing on the other side it can be misused; f.e. a doctor killing countless people and somehow faking all paperwork... it needs to be strictly monitored, also some people make very fast decisions on emotions, for example someone experiences a phase of pain which after a period of time would go a way and the person would heal afterwards, but because of the tremendous pain he/she decides to die, thus there need to be good regulations in place.

Yeah, I've had a few migraines where I prayed for death.

[darkmoonlady]

The difference between hospice and right to die is you forgo lying around waiting for the inevitable, where the pain is sometimes not controlled, where you may be debilitated by the disease killing you to the point you no longer have control over anything. It also accounts for allowing people with their cognitive abilities intact to end it while they are still lucid. If you have early onset Alzheimer's with rapid decline, or like Robin Williams the beginnings of Lewy Body Dementia, ending your life while you are still you is what some people want to choose. If I knew I was loosing my mind and only had a short time to still be aware, I would want to have control over my own death. Lying in a hospice for some people is acceptable and what they choose, as should ending your life before you lose cognitive awareness or before you decline. I don't judge anyone either way. No one gets to that point lightly.

[+DieChecker]

I don't understand what all this "right to die" stuff is about. Hospice has been letting people die painlessly for decades. I guess people just don't understand the process of dying.

I spent the last 20 years of my working career in emergency medicine. I got to know a lot of people who were dying. And I was with a lot of people when they died.

Hospice lets you live your life to the very end without pain. Granted, patients can spend the last few weeks stoned out of their minds on morphine and other opiates. But they can talk to and recognize their families until the last few hours. That's what I would want from anyone that I loved as they were dying. I wouldn't want them to cut anything short. In the last months there is sooo much love and so many wonderful conversations ... and real loving closure.

As the end nears, and as larger doses of morphine are needed, the patient sleeps more and more. Finally, the morphine puts the respiratory center to sleep and it's over.... painlessly.

"Right to die" on the other hand picks a day while the patient is still full of life. The family gathers and the patient overdoses on phenobarbital in their presence. I would be so p*ssed that I wouldn't even come to view it. Sooo as usual lately, our government has taken a beautiful moment for family and loved ones and turned it into a sideshow.

What's wrong with people?

Fear, I guess... the unknown... maybe. Expenses? Well, in the US, hospice is paid for by medicare. No matter what your age, when you become a hospice patient, it means that you are dying, and you're immediately eligible for medicare. Medicare pays for hospice.

Seems to me this "right to die" crapola just stresses patients and families over something they shouldn't have to stress over... let nature take its course... Take the pain medicine. And savor the love of your family and loved ones until your last pain free breath.

I think the only issue that many have with "right to die" is that you could have someone who is 100% going to recover and live 20 more years, who, in a fit of pain mismanagement, and depression, orders a doctor to kill them.

[+DieChecker]

Coming to California soon.....

[robinrenee]

robinrenee, I dont know... my grandfather is 94, probably not seeing the next spring, so it's not like I don't know what you're talking about. It's just, you had a whole life there, so many years, decades, all that time to spend with the people you love. Why should there be loving moments only when you're about to die and prolong with for two weeks or months or even years for that reason? Isn't there something wrong if you live a long life and when you start getting weaker due to old age, only then realize the potential of loving you didn't see before? What about all those years when you were young and healthy? What happened to them?

I'm sorry... you're talking crazy. Who said anything about suddenly starting to love your grandfather a few weeks before he dies? My question is wouldn't you prefer that he live as long as God wills him to live? Do you prefer to watch him die from an overdose of phenobarbital? Should he be scheduled to die before Christmas since he's going to be gone anyway before next spring? That's crazy in my opinion.

The Bible says there's a time to be born and a time to die. Why don't we just let God determine when that is?

*smacking my head*

[Frank Merton]

I'm sorry... you're talking crazy. Who said anything about suddenly starting to love your grandfather a few weeks before he dies? My question is wouldn't you prefer that he live as long as God wills him to live? Do you prefer to watch him die from an overdose of phenobarbital? Should he be scheduled to die before Christmas since he's going to be gone anyway before next spring? That's crazy in my opinion.

The Bible says there's a time to be born and a time to die. Why don't we just let God determine when that is?

*smacking my head*

How can you choose to say what God's will on how long a person will live actually is? Your thinking here seems muddled and sentimental and confused by your religious views and out of touch with any hint of reality.

[ShadowSot]

I think the only issue that many have with "right to die" is that you could have someone who is 100% going to recover and live 20 more years, who, in a fit of pain mismanagement, and depression, orders a doctor to kill them.

Except those specific scenarios are accounted for. This is not intended or meant to be used for those who are going to recover, but are going to die from their illness with no chance of recovery.

And counseling and state of mind are assessed beforehand, it cant be just a simple snap decision, there is a process that has to be followed.

Personally, if diagnosed with Alzheimers I would prefer to ebd my own life before the disease had progressed so far as to remove the person I am.

[Frank Merton]

Suicide is a serious public health problem, as study after study of attempted suicides has shown that almost always the attempting suicide is glad it did not succeed. It is caused mainly by a disease state called depression, and while treatments are not always successful and prevailing public superstition tends to keep a lot of people from getting treated, every effort should be made to make free-lance suicide as difficult as possible and to insist on treatment (generally anti-depressive medication).

There are exceptions, where the suicide has rationally and not because of mental illness decided to terminate their life. A diagnosis of an incurable illness such as Alzheimer's is an example. It is rational society should allow this, and even allow medical professionals, trained to be sure there is no depressive aspect, to assist so that dangerous and painful methods of suicide are not utilized.

There are also times when a person is comatose or otherwise out of touch with reality and suffering and hopeless and where continued treatment is excessively expensive. Spending large amount of money to keep such people "alive" is absurd. Doctors and other professionals, again trained for these situations, should be allowed on a case by case basis to employ their judgment as to what is best (remember these are situations where there are no "good" answers).

I find the religious attitudes approaching all this glib and unhelpful and often doing harm.

[darkmoonlady]

God is fine with suffering but I am not. If I were diagnosed with any disease that would cause me to lose cognitive awareness or was a prolonged painful death I am not leaving it up to God.

[+DieChecker]

Except those specific scenarios are accounted for. This is not intended or meant to be used for those who are going to recover, but are going to die from their illness with no chance of recovery.

And counseling and state of mind are assessed beforehand, it cant be just a simple snap decision, there is a process that has to be followed.

Personally, if diagnosed with Alzheimers I would prefer to ebd my own life before the disease had progressed so far as to remove the person I am.

I agree with limitations, so that otherwise healthy people who are simply in a bad spot don't act out of fear/depression. That there would be counseling and preparation is the only way this should be supported in my opinion.

The problem with an example like Alzheimers is that it is a slow progression, so where do you draw the line of when "you", your personality, is affected? Is it when you begin to forget names, or is it when you don't remember the day before, or somewhere in between?

[ShadowSot]

I think it depends on several factors, but the decision can only be made while still clear of mind.

My favorite author was diagnosed with Alzheimers, why it came to mind.

He knew when he would be ready, when he could no longer write.

As it happened, though he had it prepared the disease took him first, but beforehand he write hiw much of a relief it was just having that available.

Thinking on myself, I have already faced some mental issues, some variation on mental capability.

When I get to the point where I am incapable of any self sufficiency or able to carry out on forums like this, I am ready check out.

[robinrenee]

How can you choose to say what God's will on how long a person will live actually is? Your thinking here seems muddled and sentimental and confused by your religious views and out of touch with any hint of reality.

Duh! *smacking my head again*

If you don't kill a person, they live as long as their body supports life.

If you overdose them with phenobarbital, they die when you kill them.

In the Bible Ecclesiastes 3:2 says there's a time to die.

When I was working in emergency medicine, I saw a lot of suicides and a lot of attempted suicides. It's not something that I feel sentimental about. If somebody wants to kill themselves, it's their business. I don't have any of the religious fear mongering about suicides' going to "hell."

Suicide is a huge waste of life. And I think it's a crappy thing to do to people that love you. It's sort of the ultimate self-centered act... a coward's way out.

By the way, if you think I'm confused about this, you obviously didn't bother to read the post that I responded to. The poster said that their 94 year-old grandfather probably would die by next spring. So... they thought 94 year old grandfather should be able to kill himself... or the doctor could make the decision to kill him. I think that kind of thinking is messed up.

But I fully support your right, Frank, to believe what you want.

[Mikko-kun]

I'm sorry... you're talking crazy. Who said anything about suddenly starting to love your grandfather a few weeks before he dies? My question is wouldn't you prefer that he live as long as God wills him to live? Do you prefer to watch him die from an overdose of phenobarbital? Should he be scheduled to die before Christmas since he's going to be gone anyway before next spring? That's crazy in my opinion.

The Bible says there's a time to be born and a time to die. Why don't we just let God determine when that is?

*smacking my head*

God gave us free will, choise is an extention of that. By not using it we're not using the god's most precious gift. Free will, if anything, is also The Sign of Life. There's an obvious dilemma if you want to see it as such, whether to insult your free will or the life.

But consider this: how do we keep on living, how do we sustain our life-force? By eating other living beings who were killed so we could live. Plants, animals. And many humans who labor for those ends, their labor too. Hell, I'd so much rather die than only suffer and burden so much others too for what? What exactly? For the people who can't let go of me, or for the people who I can't let go of? For obsession? It's not true love if you can't let go of someone, because you need to be a whole person on your own right, so you can realize the other person as such a whole person too. Clinginess is not a synonym for love. I know it from harsh experience of having been clingy far too much in this lifetime.

Waste of life... if you really think waste of life amounts to anything, why don't you start fighting obesity for example? That's a huge waste of life, lots of sentient beings eaten for plain lust, nothing more. Or lives of ones prolonged artificially so much so their suffering lives could be sustained in the expense of other sentient beings who still could had lived a happier life than the ones who their death sustains. Suicide is a waste of life in personal picture, but it can be a blessing in the big picture. Though I don't think it usually is, not the suicides made or attempted most commonly. I think suicide is a valid option when you simply cannot evolve more spiritually in this life and see no point of living and there's sensible people who agree with you about that on your life. But suicide is in probably 99% of the cases done or attempted because life's too hard, mentally physically or spiritually, not because of a real dead end but because of merely a perceived felt one.

But even then, I don't think it's good to put yourself to death with a pill or a gun or something. If you wanna die, why not try sneak to a North Korean prison camp and try free some people, or do some other benevolent impossible mission like that where you're very likely to die? At least your death might amount to something there, something else than just personal spiritual growth.

I only took my grandfather to the conversation to show you that I know in a personal level what you're talking about. Don't misunderstand: I don't advocate stampeding over people's free will either. Free will is one of the holiest things we have, sensibility is another, the ability to see the situation more as it is instead of all the indoctrinations and delusions and such.