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Theism and Atheism


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#1    Loge

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 05:13 PM

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The Florentine Dante, disciple of Virgil, the great Poet of Mantua, in his Divine Comedy cites a terrible case related with atheism.

A shadow screamed:
“That which in life I was, in death I am. Though Jupiter tire out his armour, who supplied his wrathful hand with the sharp thunder-stone that in my last day smote me through the side, though he tire all the rest out, one by one, in Mongibel’s black stithy, and break them quite, crying, “To aid! Vulcan, lay on, lay on!” As once before he cried at Phlegra’s fight; yeah, though he crush me with his omnipotence, no merry vengeance shall his heart delight.”

The arrogance and pride of Atheists who are violent against the divine, in the Seventh Submerged Dantesque Infradimension, is the worst torture.

There exists violence against the divinity when we attempt against our own life, when we blaspheme wrathfully. There exist many subtle ways of violence against the divine; undoubtedly, the violent person against God is the one who does not want anything to do with mystical or spiritual matters, the one who assumes that they can exist without divine mercy and at the bottom of their soul rebels against everything that has the smell of divinity.

There exists violence against God in that self-sufficient person that smiles stupidly, in a skeptical manner, when he hears of matters that in some way have to do with the spiritual aspects of life.

There exists violence against God, in the intellectual rascals, in those know- it-ails that deny all spiritual possibilities to human beings; in those who believe that they have monopolized universal knowledge; in the models of wisdom; in. the learned ignoramuses who not only ignore but also ignore that they ignore, in the iconoclasts that raze to the ground when they analyze religious principles but who leave their followers without a new spiritual base.

There exists violence against God in the Marxist-Leninists, pseudo-sages that have taken away the spiritual values from humanity.

All of them deny that hell exists; they ignore that I-N-F-E-R-N-O comes from the Latin word Infernus (Inferior).

The Inferior Dimensions of Nature exist and the soul of any person who has experienced nightmares has unconsciously descended into those Infradimensions while their physical body is resting in their bed.

Heaven: Superior Dimensions that are related with the ultraviolet light whose quantum momentum is faster than the quantum momentum of this physical world.

Hell: Inferior Dimensions that are related with the infrared light whose quantum momentum is lower than the quantum momentum of this physical world

Heaven and hell are just parallel universes that sometimes the souls of people unconsciously experience while their physical bodies sleep in their beds or while they are under a physical surgery or during deadly accidents of life!

And he that overcomes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give him (Lucifer) the morning star.

#2    Shadowsleet

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 05:43 PM

....what's your point? huh.gif

We athiests, you see, don't believe in hell tongue.gif We have no reason to believe in it whatsoever and, therefore, have no reason to fear it. When I die, I plan on being dead and nothing else...that is what I believe is going to be the case, and I'm not going to give up my own beliefs and way of life for the sake of another person's alleged afterlife that may or may not exist.

If I were to open up myself to the possibility of an afterlife, Christianity isn't the first one I'd choose either. Of the many religions in the world, I do not consider Christianity either the most likely, nor does its glorification of an obvious villain (God) meet with my moral values. In fact, I find myself wondering how those who DO believe in an afterlife are able to sleep at night without being terrified that they might be wrong in their interpretations of their religions requirments to have a favourable one tongue.gif

By the way, has anyone ever told you that you sound like you dwell on the dangerous side of fanatic? huh.gif
"In battle, no move your opponent makes is trivial."

#3    Loge

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:12 PM

QUOTE
....what's your point?  huh.gif


My point is that heaven and hell is not a subject-matter to believe, but a subject-matter that one should directly experience with one's own consciousness before death! thumbsup.gif

QUOTE
By the way, has anyone ever told you that you sound like you dwell on the dangerous side of fanatic?


Yes, many times!

However, to sound like I dwell on the dangerous side of fanaticism and to be a fanatic, are two very different things! w00t.gif

Edited by Loge, 08 December 2004 - 06:17 PM.

And he that overcomes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give him (Lucifer) the morning star.

#4    JennRose

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:14 PM

So, to you, heaven and hell is just a state of mind? Do you feel there is an afterlife, or it is just something we create for ourselves?
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#5    Athenian

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:17 PM

Atheism incites materialism and materialism incites injustice! sleep.gif

Edited by Athenian, 08 December 2004 - 07:09 PM.


#6    Shadowsleet

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:17 PM

Thank you, for once, making a post that didn't look like it was written by the inventor of the thesaurus. Your point is still not very well made though....

Heaven, to me, consists of being free to do as I wish in life. If that happens to be wild parties, endless flirting, and inviting girls back home then that's how I choose to live my young adult life tongue.gif However, it also happens to directly contradict the lifestyle your religion requires of me in order to get into heaven...

Then again, some denominations of your religion also claim that I can live however I want, to the extent of going on a killing spree with a chainsaw, and I'd still get into heaven if I begged forgiveness huh.gif (One thing's for sure...your god is not the person I'd want to forgive me. A sinner can't be forgiven by a sinner).

If you're intended to make a direct point, perhaps you could try doing it in plain, simple english. Or failing that, any langauge in the world that, when translated, would still result in a coherant sentance. Your posts are so well hiden behind rhetoric and metaphor that you end up saying nothing.

QUOTE
Athiesm incites materialism and materialism incites injustice!


Religion incites predujice, seperation, hatred, war, death, fundamentalism, murder, oppression, ignorance, and ultimately a freeze on the progess of society. I'd go with materialism any day tongue.gif

Edited by Shadowsleet, 08 December 2004 - 06:18 PM.

"In battle, no move your opponent makes is trivial."

#7    Athenian

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:20 PM

QUOTE
Religion incites predujice, seperation, hatred, war, death, fundamentalism, murder, oppression, ignorance, and ultimately a freeze on the progess of society. I'd go with materialism any day tongue.gif


You must be thinking of corrupt religions...

But if you take a bit of this and that out of every religion and melt it together and follow spiritual laws more than the material ones... You have something wonderful my friend.

Edited by Athenian, 08 December 2004 - 06:22 PM.


#8    Shadowsleet

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:24 PM

Can you give me an example of a religion completely untouched by corruption? At one time or another, every religion (in particular Christianity and the other Judo-Christian brands) has oppressed another set of beliefs.

Let's not forget that no modern interpretation of religion has much at all to do with the origonal concepts...the updated version of god, the 'trendy' loving one, bears no resemblance whatsoever to the evil tyrant portrayed in the bible...he was just changed to be more socially acceptable.

Religion isn't something that evolves easily...while social changes might result in religion gradually dying away, leaving behind only traces of itself, you don't have to look very far to see that the places in the world where the people, and especially the ruling bodies, are the most religious, is also where the most corruption is present, and the people suffer most.

QUOTE
But if you take a bit of this and that out of every religion and melt it together and follow spiritual laws more than the material ones... You have something wonderful my friend.


If you do that, you've crossed the barrier from organised religion into "make your own cult" territory.

Edited by Shadowsleet, 08 December 2004 - 06:24 PM.

"In battle, no move your opponent makes is trivial."

#9    Fluffybunny

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:28 PM

Hey great, another Loge inspired thread. This should be interesting to watch...
Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#10    Loge

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:30 PM

QUOTE(JennRose @ Dec 8 2004, 01:14 PM)
So, to you, heaven and hell is just a state of mind?  Do you feel there is an afterlife, or it is just something we create for ourselves?

View Post




Any inferno or heaven of a religious type is exclusively symbolic.

It is not irrelevant to remember the icy inferno of the Nordics, the Chinese hell with all its yellow torments, the Buddhist hell, the Mohammedan hell, or the Infernal Island of the ancient inhabitants of the Country of Maralpleicie, whose civilization is today found hidden in the sands of the Gobi dessert.

These various traditional infernos allegorize the Submerged Infradimensions, the infra-mineral kingdom in an emphatic manner.

Remember that Dante found his inferno in the living entrails of the earth; read the Divine Comedy.

These infernos are not physical but Infradimensional regions of the earth. ohmy.gif

The Heavens are related with the supradimensions of the earth. grin2.gif
And he that overcomes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give him (Lucifer) the morning star.

#11    Athenian

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:37 PM

QUOTE(Shadowsleet @ Dec 8 2004, 06:24 PM)
Can you give me an example of a religion completely untouched by corruption? At one time or another, every religion (in particular Christianity and the other Judo-Christian brands) has oppressed another set of beliefs.

Let's not forget that no modern interpretation of religion has much at all to do with the origonal concepts...the updated version of god, the 'trendy' loving one, bears no resemblance whatsoever to the evil tyrant portrayed in the bible...he was just changed to be more socially acceptable.

Religion isn't something that evolves easily...while social changes might result in religion gradually dying away, leaving behind only traces of itself, you don't have to look very far to see that the places in the world where the people, and especially the ruling bodies, are the most religious, is also where the most corruption is present, and the people suffer most.

QUOTE
But if you take a bit of this and that out of every religion and melt it together and follow spiritual laws more than the material ones... You have something wonderful my friend.


If you do that, you've crossed the barrier from organised religion into "make your own cult" territory.

View Post




The places you suggest also have much materialism and greed. So far the only utopian and ideal religions that exist are those taught by the natives of each continent.

Have not all of the major religions of the modern world started as cults and became distorted over time?


#12    Shadowsleet

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:42 PM

QUOTE
Have not all of the major religions of the modern world started as cults and became distorted over time?


I consider 'cult' and 'religion' much the same thing...the only difference is that one usually has the people who run it know they're lying, and the other has people who actually believe it tongue.gif

QUOTE
So far the only utopian and ideal religions that exist are those taught by the natives of each continent.


Interesting...I had you pinned as a Christian. So you believe religion that go hand in hand with nature are the way to go? Does that include paganism, or is that another one that's been corrupted by teenagers who think they know magic?
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#13    Athenian

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:52 PM

QUOTE
Interesting...I had you pinned as a Christian. So you believe religion that go hand in hand with nature are the way to go? Does that include paganism, or is that another one that's been corrupted by teenagers who think they know magic?


I think you are viewing it wrongly. It is not only harmonizing with nature, But harmonizing with humanity, life, and yourself.
Your term of paganism is very vague. There are many pagan religions which are useful and others that are just silly, like the stuff you have stated about magic and casting spells.

#14    Shadowsleet

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:58 PM

I see...I see your wisdom far surpasses that of Loge tongue.gif Tell me, does your mix and match style approach to religion allow for a deity, or do you not consider them? I don't see, after all, how you could claim to follow any specific god, if you're taking bits and peices from the teachings of other religions.
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#15    Athenian

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 07:03 PM

QUOTE(Shadowsleet @ Dec 8 2004, 06:58 PM)
I see...I see your wisdom far surpasses that of Loge tongue.gif Tell me, does your mix and match style approach to religion allow for a deity, or do you not consider them? I don't see, after all, how you could claim to follow any specific god, if you're taking bits and peices from the teachings of other religions.

View Post


I do believe there is a moderator and administrator aka god for this universe but the power of it or how it works is beyond our understanding... so far. Our job is to find out and get closer to this mystery no?

Who truly knows the god he believes in...?

Edited by Athenian, 08 December 2004 - 07:10 PM.





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