What are the ISIS Goals?

[alibongo]

Anyone have any idea? I know the over-all aim is to have a world-wide caliphate with everyone living under Sharia law.

But what are the tactical goals of, for example, the shootings in Paris? Surely a better way would be to persuade the West of the "error" of their ways and educate them into the superiority of Islam?

Most terrorists have specific goals- the IRA wanted to gain independence for Ireland, Basque terrorists recognition for a certain part of Spain, Chechen terrorists independence from Russia,etc.

But what can mass shootings in Western or European cities achieve? Is it expected M. Hollande will say, blow me, I was wrong to believe in democracy, let's all adopt Sharia law?

Any one have any ideas?

[Gary Meadows]

The goal is to get people talking/thinking only of them. All day every day.

It worked.

[Tiggs]

Anyone have any idea? I know the over-all aim is to have a world-wide caliphate with everyone living under Sharia law.

But what are the tactical goals of, for example, the shootings in Paris? Surely a better way would be to persuade the West of the "error" of their ways and educate them into the superiority of Islam?

Most terrorists have specific goals- the IRA wanted to gain independence for Ireland, Basque terrorists recognition for a certain part of Spain, Chechen terrorists independence from Russia,etc.

But what can mass shootings in Western or European cities achieve? Is it expected M. Hollande will say, blow me, I was wrong to believe in democracy, let's all adopt Sharia law?

Any one have any ideas?

I can think of several reasons:

1: (Recruitment) - It shows that it's still able to wage Jihad, even after losing land in Syria and Iraq. According to reports, ISIS recruits are down from several thousand a day to below 100.

2: (Prestige) - It's jostling for position with al-Qaeda as the premier Jihad group.

3: (Growth) - As a more long term aim, ISIS want to make it unbearable for Muslims to live in the West, forcing them to return to Islamic countries and live under their rule in the Caliphate.

4: (Holy War) - It's trying to provoke everyone into fighting them in Syria, where it believes it will win in an apocalyptic battle, involving the return of Jesus.

Plus, they hate the West.

[Shiloh17]

It is their dream, and I say dream, because that is all it will be is to have a Caliphate. The sheer brutality is a recruitment tool. Who is going to say no to joining? They roll through villages, town and cities killing the law enforcement, military, any who oppose, those deemed too westernized, other sects of Islam, Christians, Atheist, etc.. showing no mercy, or compassion, unlike the God they so profoundly claim to worship. "In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful."

I've said before ISIS is self destructive. We've had the means to combat ISIS but with a U.S goal to overthrow Assad, and ISIS fighting Assad, we aren't going to seriously engage them until he is out of power. And that won't happen. What will happen is just one, maybe two more terrorist attacks in foreign countries, and it is my belief the world will unite against them, and the U.S will be forced to abandon the goal of toppling Assad, and take on ISIS alongside these fed-up nations.

[Duke Wellington]

Anyone have any idea? I know the over-all aim is to have a world-wide caliphate with everyone living under Sharia law.

But what are the tactical goals of, for example, the shootings in Paris? Surely a better way would be to persuade the West of the "error" of their ways and educate them into the superiority of Islam?

Most terrorists have specific goals- the IRA wanted to gain independence for Ireland, Basque terrorists recognition for a certain part of Spain, Chechen terrorists independence from Russia,etc.

But what can mass shootings in Western or European cities achieve? Is it expected M. Hollande will say, blow me, I was wrong to believe in democracy, let's all adopt Sharia law?

Any one have any ideas?

ISIS want the end of the world so that the Second Coming occurs to beat the Anti-Christ which according to the literature is Rome (possibly the EU or NATO?). Anyway they see themselves as the army under the black flag prophesied in both the Bible and Koran. That is the force that wages mans final holy war resulting in the apocalypse.

The strategy ISIS are using (believing they are the ones) is to play out the prophesy from their own side while coercing us into playing the role of the Anti-Christ. They want us to send our armies to fight them at a village in Northern Syria called Dabiq because that is where the final battle is supposed to occur. The one where Christ will destroy the armies of Rome. They aim through the use of terror attacks and the establishing of a Global Caliphate to force us to send our armies. That is their plan.

[Golden Duck]

...

2: (Prestige) - It's jostling for position with al-Qaeda as the premier Jihad group.

...

How is that judged?

Boko Haram overtakes ISIL to become the most deadly terrorist group in the world. Deaths attributed to Boko Haram increased by 317 per cent in 2014 to 6,644. ISIL was responsible for 6,073 terrorist deaths.

http://static.visionofhumanity.org/sites/default/files/2015%20Global%20Terrorism%20Index%20Report_0_0.pdf

[Tiggs]

How is that judged?

By people's opinion.

As the PDF you've linked notes, they pledged allegiance to IS back in March this year and now go under the name ISWAP (Islamic State West African Province).

[Farmer77]

Anyone have any idea? I know the over-all aim is to have a world-wide caliphate with everyone living under Sharia law.

But what are the tactical goals of, for example, the shootings in Paris? Surely a better way would be to persuade the West of the "error" of their ways and educate them into the superiority of Islam?

Most terrorists have specific goals- the IRA wanted to gain independence for Ireland, Basque terrorists recognition for a certain part of Spain, Chechen terrorists independence from Russia,etc.

But what can mass shootings in Western or European cities achieve? Is it expected M. Hollande will say, blow me, I was wrong to believe in democracy, let's all adopt Sharia law?

Any one have any ideas?

Whatever their bosses tells them they are.

[Frank Merton]

To make Islam so hated around the world that Muslims will have no choice but to join them.

[+and-then]

To make Islam so hated around the world that Muslims will have no choice but to join them.

THAT may be just the thing they need to "succeed". I can remember the frustration and anger on 9-11, not at Muslims in my community, but at the fact that Osama probably had succeeded. I saw no way this war could end without catastrophic loss.

[Ashotep]

I don't know what ISIS wants and really don't care. I just want them dead.

If we aren't engaging them in Syria just because they are fighting Assad that is a monumental mistake. Assad isn't a great person but he is the golden boy compared to ISIS and I really don't want another Iraq.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Ashotep

[+and-then]

I don't know what ISIS wants and really don't care. I just want them dead.

If we aren't engaging them in Syria just because they are fighting Assad that is a monumental mistake. Assad isn't a great person but he is the golden boy compared to ISIS and I really don't want another Iraq.

I don't want another Iraq either. I think about the reasons we went in and I wonder if no one even tried to understand these people and their religion beforehand. Who could have imagined that any culture would be so backward and vicious that the only way for them to have a semblance of peace is to be ruled by a bloody dictator? It's like they were left in the 7th century while the rest of the world moved on....

[RavenHawk]

You’re right in that the strategic goal of ISIS is worldwide dominion and subjugate it to Sharia under a Caliphate. Which means a standardization of a strict Sharia. This is a core tenant of the Quran. Terror is just one way to attack the norm of a society. When you do that, it destabilizes the will of the people. Coercion and manipulation becomes easier. A stubborn population only takes a bit longer to break. A strong religion going against the weaker social democracies has an edge.

The way that this President has been degrading this nation in creating fundamental change is only helping ISIS. The Socialist mindset is very similar to the Islamic mindset, being autocratic. But when one is self-absorbed and the other has global desires, it’s not too hard to see where that is going.

The West has gotten weak and that provides fertile ground for Islam in general. Islam is parasitic and every Muslim is a carrier, even the most benevolent Muslim you can find. It is the doctrine of the Quran that is a poison to Western society. The disclaimer is that every Muslim is not the enemy of the West. There are going to be a number (perhaps millions) of Muslim dissidents that fight this disease as well. This is just the nature of Islam – to spread by any means, by any struggle, by any deceit. The most benevolent ayah in the Quran is a dagger into Western sensibilities. And will remain so as long as the West is ignorant of the concepts.

Islam is attacking in a pincer maneuver. ISIS attacks one side with terrorism and refugees using the hijrah attack the other. Hijrah is migration, eventually out breeding the local culture. Single Muslim males mate (out of wedlock so he can plant his seed as much as possible) with indigenous females and the offspring are automatically Muslim. This is just typical behavior in any minority population of any nation. But Islam will use it to the fullest.

With no incentive to integrate and assimilate into the new host culture, Muslims retain loyalty to their prior Islamic state (not the country but the religion). Muslims are Muslims first, then they identify with whatever country they are from. Their oath to their new nation is taqiya, etc. (I.e. deception or legal lying). This is a dangerous loophole in the openness of the West. It is planting the seeds of destruction of the West.

What is needed is Nationalism. Now everybody is going to jump to conclusions and think of National Socialism (I.e. Nazis). The two couldn’t be further apart. Nationalism is anti-Socialist. It is simply establishing and believing in borders, language, and culture of *your* nation and protecting it. Today in this country, that is a great evil. But in order to protect your nation, one must believe that the individual did indeed “build that”. For Americans, it has been American Exceptionalism and American Hegemony. This President has done all he can to destroy both.

As long as we have leaders like Putin, Hollande, and Obama, they will never be able to destroy (let alone stop) ISIS or the Islamic mindset. They will continue to use the West’s ignorance of the Quran to spread confusion. They are self-delusional in thinking they can handle Islam.

[Dark_Grey]

You’re right in that the strategic goal of ISIS is worldwide dominion and subjugate it to Sharia under a Caliphate. Which means a standardization of a strict Sharia. This is a core tenant of the Quran. Terror is just one way to attack the norm of a society. When you do that, it destabilizes the will of the people. Coercion and manipulation becomes easier. A stubborn population only takes a bit longer to break. A strong religion going against the weaker social democracies has an edge.

The way that this President has been degrading this nation in creating fundamental change is only helping ISIS. The Socialist mindset is very similar to the Islamic mindset, being autocratic. But when one is self-absorbed and the other has global desires, it’s not too hard to see where that is going.

The West has gotten weak and that provides fertile ground for Islam in general. Islam is parasitic and every Muslim is a carrier, even the most benevolent Muslim you can find. It is the doctrine of the Quran that is a poison to Western society. The disclaimer is that every Muslim is not the enemy of the West. There are going to be a number (perhaps millions) of Muslim dissidents that fight this disease as well. This is just the nature of Islam – to spread by any means, by any struggle, by any deceit. The most benevolent ayah in the Quran is a dagger into Western sensibilities. And will remain so as long as the West is ignorant of the concepts.

Islam is attacking in a pincer maneuver. ISIS attacks one side with terrorism and refugees using the hijrah attack the other. Hijrah is migration, eventually out breeding the local culture. Single Muslim males mate (out of wedlock so he can plant his seed as much as possible) with indigenous females and the offspring are automatically Muslim. This is just typical behavior in any minority population of any nation. But Islam will use it to the fullest.

With no incentive to integrate and assimilate into the new host culture, Muslims retain loyalty to their prior Islamic state (not the country but the religion). Muslims are Muslims first, then they identify with whatever country they are from. Their oath to their new nation is taqiya, etc. (I.e. deception or legal lying). This is a dangerous loophole in the openness of the West. It is planting the seeds of destruction of the West.

What is needed is Nationalism. Now everybody is going to jump to conclusions and think of National Socialism (I.e. Nazis). The two couldn’t be further apart. Nationalism is anti-Socialist. It is simply establishing and believing in borders, language, and culture of *your* nation and protecting it. Today in this country, that is a great evil. But in order to protect your nation, one must believe that the individual did indeed “build that”. For Americans, it has been American Exceptionalism and American Hegemony. This President has done all he can to destroy both.

As long as we have leaders like Putin, Hollande, and Obama, they will never be able to destroy (let alone stop) ISIS or the Islamic mindset. They will continue to use the West’s ignorance of the Quran to spread confusion. They are self-delusional in thinking they can handle Islam.

Wow. I have half a mind to copy/past this in a few other places. You nailed every part of the core problem that is continually disregarded in favor of un-hurt feelings. By the way, Obama refusing to call ISIS "Islamic terrorists" is really start to grate my nerves. He's continually shifting focus away from what they are and therefore the solutions we should be looking for.

Remember that there will be an equal and/or opposite reaction if our leaders don't grab the reigns - the rise of the Far-Right. The 3rd most popular party in Sweden is now a hardcore Conservative group that wants to shut borders and start deporting. Merkle herself has said several times that she fears a major far-right resistance movement in Germany. Hungary is well on their way to preserving a conservative, rightwing mindset. Trump will no doubt have a wave of votes coming his way now. Paris has elections coming up very soon - I bet more than a few liberal politicians are starting to sweat.

Multiculturalism has failed. Damn near all European leaders have stated that on some level and I'll pull up quotes if you like. These migrants are not integrating, they have no desire to assimilate. Quit the opposite. They are taking over whole neighborhoods, making unreasonable demands of the governments, even terrorizing local populations in some places. I'm sure some more liberal minded members will contest this reality but like I said, the far-right is pulling in new comers faster than ISIS and with a lot less propaganda. There are only two conlusions you can make: there are millions of closet-racists in Europe, or these supports are being driven to the far-right because of what they are experiencing at home. If they can't turn to their leaders for help, they'll find someone who IS willing to help them.

[Farmer77]

You’re right in that the strategic goal of ISIS is worldwide dominion and subjugate it to Sharia under a Caliphate. Which means a standardization of a strict Sharia. This is a core tenant of the Quran. Terror is just one way to attack the norm of a society. When you do that, it destabilizes the will of the people. Coercion and manipulation becomes easier. A stubborn population only takes a bit longer to break. A strong religion going against the weaker social democracies has an edge.

The way that this President has been degrading this nation in creating fundamental change is only helping ISIS. The Socialist mindset is very similar to the Islamic mindset, being autocratic. But when one is self-absorbed and the other has global desires, it’s not too hard to see where that is going.

The West has gotten weak and that provides fertile ground for Islam in general. Islam is parasitic and every Muslim is a carrier, even the most benevolent Muslim you can find. It is the doctrine of the Quran that is a poison to Western society. The disclaimer is that every Muslim is not the enemy of the West. There are going to be a number (perhaps millions) of Muslim dissidents that fight this disease as well. This is just the nature of Islam – to spread by any means, by any struggle, by any deceit. The most benevolent ayah in the Quran is a dagger into Western sensibilities. And will remain so as long as the West is ignorant of the concepts.

Islam is attacking in a pincer maneuver. ISIS attacks one side with terrorism and refugees using the hijrah attack the other. Hijrah is migration, eventually out breeding the local culture. Single Muslim males mate (out of wedlock so he can plant his seed as much as possible) with indigenous females and the offspring are automatically Muslim. This is just typical behavior in any minority population of any nation. But Islam will use it to the fullest.

With no incentive to integrate and assimilate into the new host culture, Muslims retain loyalty to their prior Islamic state (not the country but the religion). Muslims are Muslims first, then they identify with whatever country they are from. Their oath to their new nation is taqiya, etc. (I.e. deception or legal lying). This is a dangerous loophole in the openness of the West. It is planting the seeds of destruction of the West.

What is needed is Nationalism. Now everybody is going to jump to conclusions and think of National Socialism (I.e. Nazis). The two couldn’t be further apart. Nationalism is anti-Socialist. It is simply establishing and believing in borders, language, and culture of *your* nation and protecting it. Today in this country, that is a great evil. But in order to protect your nation, one must believe that the individual did indeed “build that”. For Americans, it has been American Exceptionalism and American Hegemony. This President has done all he can to destroy both.

As long as we have leaders like Putin, Hollande, and Obama, they will never be able to destroy (let alone stop) ISIS or the Islamic mindset. They will continue to use the West’s ignorance of the Quran to spread confusion. They are self-delusional in thinking they can handle Islam.

Jesus christ the very very absolute last thing we need in this nation is more nationalism. It is via nationalism that we landed where we are, monitored every moment by the NSA, involved in endless wars with people who are of no threat to us, a congress and president who don't answer to us or represent us, and lets not forget the patriot act and its deformed offspring the TSA they were a direct result of nationalism.

This nation needs rationalism (is that a thing) , it needs more common sense and less emotion, it needs education and more compassion and it needs to cling to the constitution harder than ever before.

Nationalism is a dangerous aphrodisiac.

[RavenHawk]

Jesus christ the very very absolute last thing we need in this nation is more nationalism. It is via nationalism that we landed where we are, monitored every moment by the NSA, involved in endless wars with people who are of no threat to us, a congress and president who don't answer to us or represent us, and lets not forget the patriot act and its deformed offspring the TSA they were a direct result of nationalism.

This nation needs rationalism (is that a thing) , it needs more common sense and less emotion, it needs education and more compassion and it needs to cling to the constitution harder than ever before.

Nationalism is a dangerous aphrodisiac.

Like I said, people will jump to conclusions. Nationalism *IS* rationalism. It *IS* clinging to the Constitution. The Constitution is the whole reason behind American Nationalism. Nationalism is both common sense and emotion (pride in one’s nation). Nationalism is education and compassion. We need people to educate themselves more in the Constitution and show compassion to our own people. To protect that will require going to war from time to time although I am not aware of any endless war that we have fought. It is not National Socialism which you go on to describe with the NSA, TSA, and the Patriot Act. So you believe there should be no borders? No Nations? Do you understand the problems that will cause? Do you think Islam will care?

[Farmer77]

Like I said, people will jump to conclusions. Nationalism *IS* rationalism. It *IS* clinging to the Constitution. The Constitution is the whole reason behind American Nationalism. Nationalism is both common sense and emotion (pride in one’s nation). Nationalism is education and compassion. We need people to educate themselves more in the Constitution and show compassion to our own people. To protect that will require going to war from time to time although I am not aware of any endless war that we have fought. It is not National Socialism which you go on to describe with the NSA, TSA, and the Patriot Act. So you believe there should be no borders? No Nations? Do you understand the problems that will cause? Do you think Islam will care?

\

Of course there needs to be borders but there doesn't need to be a hyper-vigilant mindset among the public regarding those borders. In today's america the Patriot Act and NSA's overreach are a direct result of nationalism. Im not sure there's a way to seperate the two. The folks in this country who speak of nationalism (the mike savages of the world) generally use it as a thinly veiled reference to eliminating anything not white or christian. If you're not I apologize but I also suggest you find a different term.

As for the endless wars we went to war in Iraq because someone told us that they had WMD's and our NATIONALISM blinded us to the fact we were being played. Our nationalism led us to invade a primitive nation in Afghanistan without a plan, just go get em. Our nationalism is allowing the drone wars to be carried out around the globe without oversight because someone said there are bad guys out there. Our nationalism has allowed us to aid terrorists without the public even questioning it in Syria because someone said Assad is a bad guy. Not that he's a threat to us but that he's a bad guy. Nationalism has allowed our citizenry to believe we are so much better than the other nations that we can and should bomb them into living like us.

[RavenHawk]

Wow. I have half a mind to copy/past this in a few other places. You nailed every part of the core problem that is continually disregarded in favor of un-hurt feelings.

I just think it’s time to drop the PC-ness. We’re going to PC ourselves into Dhimmitude. I really don’t want to leave that to our future generations.

By the way, Obama refusing to call ISIS "Islamic terrorists" is really start to grate my nerves. He's continually shifting focus away from what they are and therefore the solutions we should be looking for.

I think I've only agreed with Bill Maher one time before. But his observation was right on. ISIS calls themselves Islamic, why can’t the President?

Remember that there will be an equal and/or opposite reaction if our leaders don't grab the reigns - the rise of the Far-Right. The 3rd most popular party in Sweden is now a hardcore Conservative group that wants to shut borders and start deporting. Merkle herself has said several times that she fears a major far-right resistance movement in Germany. Hungary is well on their way to preserving a conservative, rightwing mindset. Trump will no doubt have a wave of votes coming his way now. Paris has elections coming up very soon - I bet more than a few liberal politicians are starting to sweat.

That was one point as I mentioned with Nationalism and as I tore into Farmer. Nationalism is not far-right. It is middle of the ground Conservatism. If we don’t grab it to defend ourselves, the far-right will and drag us down even more than Obama has. They will turn Nationalism into National Socialism. So we end up protecting ourselves from Islam only to fall to another authoritarian government. We have to realize that the Constitution is not PC.

Multiculturalism has failed. Damn near all European leaders have stated that on some level and I'll pull up quotes if you like.

Sure. It seems that Europe is beginning to understand that Socialism doesn’t work. Meanwhile, the POTUS is doing all he can to lead us down that path. He is so absorbed in his belief that America has been the source of all evil in this world and that we need to be knocked down to make it fair for everybody. That will only lead to more wars.

These migrants are not integrating, they have no desire to assimilate. Quit the opposite. They are taking over whole neighborhoods, making unreasonable demands of the governments, even terrorizing local populations in some places.

Again, this is just another form of Jihad.

I'm sure some more liberal minded members will contest this reality but like I said, the far-right is pulling in new comers faster than ISIS and with a lot less propaganda. There are only two conlusions you can make: there are millions of closet-racists in Europe, or these supports are being driven to the far-right because of what they are experiencing at home. If they can't turn to their leaders for help, they'll find someone who IS willing to help them.

I don’t think this has anything to do with racism. It is simply the desire and need for self–preservation. And the people that were elected to defend that have failed. And the far-right will fill its ranks. Our leaders have forgotten their people in lieu of their own interests. “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.” – Samuel Adams. The patriots need to act long before the far-right or even far-left can.

[Dark_Grey]

Sure. It seems that Europe is beginning to understand that Socialism doesn’t work. Meanwhile, the POTUS is doing all he can to lead us down that path. He is so absorbed in his belief that America has been the source of all evil in this world and that we need to be knocked down to make it fair for everybody. That will only lead to more wars.

You and I are clearly on the same page so I'll just add that our recently elected PM is right there with the POTUS on liberal immigration. During the elections he phrased it as "bringing families together", which I completely understand. I know what I would want if I was in a foreign country and missing my favorite uncles and aunts. The problem we potentially face is less border security which is a big part of what makes Canada such a great country. You can't even get in here with a DUI on your record. But look at our crime stats, multiculturalism that works (relatively) well, and so on. It's not an accident: it's because we filter the hell out of any potential new citizens. If you only fill your house with great guests, you can't have a bad party. Things get out of control when one of those guests invites his cousin that recently made bail. I wish more Canadians would appreciate the country we have because of border control, not in spite of it. You want to keep this a nice place to live? Keep the checks and balances in place.

I have a lot of faith in our new defense minister, but a defense minister is not a Prime Minister.

[RavenHawk]

Of course there needs to be borders but there doesn't need to be a hyper-vigilant mindset among the public regarding those borders.

No one is saying anything about hyper. Just a bit of common sense vigilance with confidence. I.e. don’t just defend the border because that is your job. Defend it because you believe in this country.

In today's america the Patriot Act and NSA's overreach are a direct result of nationalism. Im not sure there's a way to seperate the two.

Wrong! The overreach is due to stupidity and as I mentioned with Adam’s quote. We have leaders following only their agenda. These actions have nothing to do with Nationalism. All Presidents have their agenda but they usually tie into the nations. It’s different now. The nation’s agenda takes a backseat to the President’s. In contrast, the original intent of the Patriot Act was appropriate and the concept for the NSA being able to only collect metadata could be useful for research. But the temptation for abuse without tighter controls is perhaps too threating to our freedoms. In either case, this is not what Nationalism is about.

The folks in this country who speak of nationalism (the mike savages of the world) generally use it as a thinly veiled reference to eliminating anything not white or christian.

You really haven’t listened to or read Savage have you? He definitely can easily get worked up, but he doesn’t stand for eliminating anything not White or Christian. He is an acquired taste however. He’s not always right but when he is, he is dead on. He doesn’t get into being coerced by PC. We need more of that and from the MSM. It’s the Left that will claim that the Constitution is for eliminating anything not White or Christian because it was WASPs that wrote it. Don’t buy into the talking points.

If you're not I apologize but I also suggest you find a different term.

Apology accepted. What is done is past. But that is the term. I’m not going to let the PCers win.

As for the endless wars we went to war in Iraq

For one, that was not an endless war. It should have been a multigenerational war but even that wouldn’t have been endless. You’ve been brainwashed by the hype from the Left.

because someone told us that they had WMD's

No. It was because Saddam violated the ceasefire. The WMD came later. It was the hype of the Right. But it was more truthful than what the Left was claiming. The WMD did exist, just not in the massive stockpiles that were feared. The real issue was Saddam. He was the most dangerous WMD. As long as he lived, his weapons programs could be reconstituted at any time. Our invasion was rushed because France was just weeks away from requesting that sanctions be lifted. Remember the oil-for-food scandal? It wasn’t working. Russia, US, and even France were working around the sanctions to deal with Saddam and none of it was getting to the people. Chirac wanted to use Saddam to hold Iran into check. With the sanctions lifted, Chirac could begin to rebuild Saddam’s reactor to keep pace with Iran’s program. The US saw this as stupidity, which it was. France had conceded that both Iraq and Iran would eventually get the bomb. The US still wanted to hold that off as long as possible. How was France going to placate Israel from taking that reactor out again? Qusay was not his father. What happened in Syria would have happened in Iraq too. The radical group that would have risen out of that might not have been called ISIS, but it would have a wide selection of WMD including nukes. Would you want to be dealing with that situation instead? Of course, none of this would have been happening if Carter had only supported the Shah in the first place.

and our NATIONALISM blinded us to the fact we were being played.

No, our Nationalism didn’t blind us. The invasion of Iraq was perhaps the most clearest and necessary war we’ve been in. At least it falls in behind the Revolution, Civil, and WWII. We were played alright but not by the hype of the Right. It was the ignorance of the Left.

Our nationalism led us to invade a primitive nation in Afghanistan without a plan, just go get em.

Our Nationalism didn’t do that either. However, that was still a good plan. Perhaps it would have been better to have a more comprehensive plan in place but sometimes, just “go get’em” is all you need. It seems to me that you think Nationalism is something that occurs externally? Perhaps there are external manifestations of it but Nationalism starts in the heart and head of each citizen. It is our national identity. You know - Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet.

Our nationalism is allowing the drone wars to be carried out around the globe without oversight because someone said there are bad guys out there.

Again it is prudence, not nationalism that utilizes drones for our security. At least it should be prudence. What this President is using them for is anybody’s guess. Looking into more oversight is always doable.

Our nationalism has allowed us to aid terrorists

Again, not our Nationalism. More stupidity though. Still trying to figure how it is related to Fast and Furious and how it got Stevens killed?? But what matter does it make?

without the public even questioning it in Syria because someone said Assad is a bad guy. Not that he's a threat to us but that he's a bad guy.

Plenty questioned it. Evidently nobody listened. You have to realize that the MSM screens Obama. I’m not sure why the Forth Estate has betrayed their revered duty?

Nationalism has allowed our citizenry to believe we are so much better than the other nations that we can and should bomb them into living like us.

WOW! There is just so much wrong with that. What you did get right is what Nationalism does. In our case, it is American Exceptionalism. And because of that, we *ARE* better than other nations. Is that a bit arrogant? YOU BET! So what prevents the other nations to rise up and join us as equals? Or do they prefer to wallow in self-pity? The way Obama wants for us now?

As far as that allowing us to bomb other nations is way off base. Now I’m going out on a limb here. But I would say that if we bomb a nation, it’s usually a response to a transgression by that nation on us. Although, you’ve got me with Obama’s attack on Libya?? Taking out Gaddafi only silenced him. He wasn’t the threat like Saddam was. So what he knew went to the grave.

[Farmer77]

No one is saying anything about hyper. Just a bit of common sense vigilance with confidence. I.e. don’t just defend the border because that is your job. Defend it because you believe in this country.

Wrong! The overreach is due to stupidity and as I mentioned with Adam’s quote. We have leaders following only their agenda. These actions have nothing to do with Nationalism. All Presidents have their agenda but they usually tie into the nations. It’s different now. The nation’s agenda takes a backseat to the President’s. In contrast, the original intent of the Patriot Act was appropriate and the concept for the NSA being able to only collect metadata could be useful for research. But the temptation for abuse without tighter controls is perhaps too threating to our freedoms. In either case, this is not what Nationalism is about.

You really haven’t listened to or read Savage have you? He definitely can easily get worked up, but he doesn’t stand for eliminating anything not White or Christian. He is an acquired taste however. He’s not always right but when he is, he is dead on. He doesn’t get into being coerced by PC. We need more of that and from the MSM. It’s the Left that will claim that the Constitution is for eliminating anything not White or Christian because it was WASPs that wrote it. Don’t buy into the talking points.

Apology accepted. What is done is past. But that is the term. I’m not going to let the PCers win.

For one, that was not an endless war. It should have been a multigenerational war but even that wouldn’t have been endless. You’ve been brainwashed by the hype from the Left.

No. It was because Saddam violated the ceasefire. The WMD came later. It was the hype of the Right. But it was more truthful than what the Left was claiming. The WMD did exist, just not in the massive stockpiles that were feared. The real issue was Saddam. He was the most dangerous WMD. As long as he lived, his weapons programs could be reconstituted at any time. Our invasion was rushed because France was just weeks away from requesting that sanctions be lifted. Remember the oil-for-food scandal? It wasn’t working. Russia, US, and even France were working around the sanctions to deal with Saddam and none of it was getting to the people. Chirac wanted to use Saddam to hold Iran into check. With the sanctions lifted, Chirac could begin to rebuild Saddam’s reactor to keep pace with Iran’s program. The US saw this as stupidity, which it was. France had conceded that both Iraq and Iran would eventually get the bomb. The US still wanted to hold that off as long as possible. How was France going to placate Israel from taking that reactor out again? Qusay was not his father. What happened in Syria would have happened in Iraq too. The radical group that would have risen out of that might not have been called ISIS, but it would have a wide selection of WMD including nukes. Would you want to be dealing with that situation instead? Of course, none of this would have been happening if Carter had only supported the Shah in the first place.

No, our Nationalism didn’t blind us. The invasion of Iraq was perhaps the most clearest and necessary war we’ve been in. At least it falls in behind the Revolution, Civil, and WWII. We were played alright but not by the hype of the Right. It was the ignorance of the Left.

Our Nationalism didn’t do that either. However, that was still a good plan. Perhaps it would have been better to have a more comprehensive plan in place but sometimes, just “go get’em” is all you need. It seems to me that you think Nationalism is something that occurs externally? Perhaps there are external manifestations of it but Nationalism starts in the heart and head of each citizen. It is our national identity. You know - Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet.

Again it is prudence, not nationalism that utilizes drones for our security. At least it should be prudence. What this President is using them for is anybody’s guess. Looking into more oversight is always doable.

Again, not our Nationalism. More stupidity though. Still trying to figure how it is related to Fast and Furious and how it got Stevens killed?? But what matter does it make?

Plenty questioned it. Evidently nobody listened. You have to realize that the MSM screens Obama. I’m not sure why the Forth Estate has betrayed their revered duty?

WOW! There is just so much wrong with that. What you did get right is what Nationalism does. In our case, it is American Exceptionalism. And because of that, we *ARE* better than other nations. Is that a bit arrogant? YOU BET! So what prevents the other nations to rise up and join us as equals? Or do they prefer to wallow in self-pity? The way Obama wants for us now?

As far as that allowing us to bomb other nations is way off base. Now I’m going out on a limb here. But I would say that if we bomb a nation, it’s usually a response to a transgression by that nation on us. Although, you’ve got me with Obama’s attack on Libya?? Taking out Gaddafi only silenced him. He wasn’t the threat like Saddam was. So what he knew went to the grave.

Nationalism directly led to the patriot act and the ignorance of a nation which clamored for it, that is undeniable. Nationalism can be as dangerous as religious extremism. Look at your own extremely absurd assertion that if we bombed a nation it is in response to aggression. Iraq had not been aggressive we attacked them while they were no threat, Libya as you mentioned, Syria thats not even mentioning the bombing campaigns in bum **** africa we dont get coverage of. Those are all nations we attached without provocation. No we're NOT better than anyone else certainly not so much we have a RIGHT to attack them to change their way of life. That thought process is terrifying and can be used to justify any and all atrocities youd like.

With your thought process, there are about 20 nations whom should be bombing us because their nations score higher on happiness and freedom indexes. Tell me should they bomb us to make us live like them? They are clearly better than US based on the numbers, would you be OK with them attacking us?

[pallidin]

If one looks at ISIS (or indeed any extremist on this level) in any rational way one will fail because ISIS has no true rationality; rather only their ideology upon which to prop up their murderous, raping, thieving and thugging ways.

These are the scrums and creeps of human society.

They do not operate under any common sense or rationality.

They are thugs.

[Frank Merton]

Insulting ISIS without understanding them doesn't seem to me to be very effective.

I can't actually say it is their deliberate purpose, but their activity has the effect of causing Muslims everywhere to be discriminated against, to keep their people poor, and to keep their cultures backward.

This has the follow-on effect of causing the Muslims to resent, not the cause of the discrimination, but the people who discriminate, and to want to strike out, and hence some join ISIS. It is a snowball picking up momentum.

I conclude from this that the one of the things an ordinary person can do to fight ISIS and similar groups is to go out of our way to welcome Muslims, to help them assimilate, to talk these things over with them. If there are no Muslims around, one can at least oppose opportunistic politicians who advocate immigration restrictions and special restrictions on Muslim culture and life.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

What is the ultimate goal of any criminal group?

To make a criminal state and legalize criminal activities. For isis, so far it is working how they expected, multi billion enterprise but most sick part of their 'work' is the fact that they have managed to make people hate Muslims and we are close to an terrible religion war worldwide, just because of that sick few.

Western policy towards Middle East ain't changed for decades and since first Islamic terror act from 1980s nothing is changed in policy towards that area of the world. Other terrorist groups ( mainly those from around 1940s ) accomplished their goals in about a decade, by doing massacres and bombings. This oppressed people all around ME area can't have their freedom and countries, not peacefully ( which they have tried for over 100 years ) not by defending from invaders and colonizers and not even by doing terrorist acts which last for three and a half decades now. Just remember 'Arabian Spring' and how it was about to bring light on everyone in the region

One thing happened, there is a lot of light but unfortunately, light from explosions and not that of the bright future.

Well, one thing is for sure - making people adopt foreign ideologies can't work, not even if you disguise them as some brighter future ****. Libya is best example, that people had everything and now they have nothing, many lost their lives and i could not notice how it was Libyan oil which was used in making largest explosion for movie set, Guinness world record made by producers of new James Bond movie, ' Spectre '.

This ain't no victory for terrorism, it is far from that but one thing is certain - this situation and the fact that we got where we are right now, this is defeat of every educated, just and peaceful person on the Earth. From British mandate in Palestine up to Russian bombings of Syria, nothing changed and civilians in the region suffer from foreign bombs and troops.

Exactly a reason why isis get recruits from the area, because most of that people hate foreign politics and armies more then everything and their hatred is justified if you ask me.

How many of you would peacefully allow foreigners to screw your countries and lands, kill your families and you just watch them do it for over 50 years, asking for peace and help from, funny, from UN.

When you finally get to the point where you can't wait for that promised help ( yes, i am talking about Palestinians, their suffering is the cause of all troubles in today world ) and start to fight for your freedom - whole world label you as terrorist, barbarian, uneducated scatter...

So isis profit from all of wrong doings in history of the area and with help from most modern army equipment, every piece of land which that scum takes, civilians there are forced into living a hell under criminal rule and then, they even get bombed again, by those who say that they are here to save them!?

The Western civilized world : Saving Middle Eastern people for over a century now! We are your freedom fighters, you are barbarians and terrorists, so as every Muslim in the world is. - wet dream of majority of western politicians and large number of people - bringing 'freedom' to everyone.

Sorry for long post but even this ain't 1% of things which are directly related to isis being born, equipped and put into worlds economy pages.

I wonder if Forbes will add that sick isis leader el bagdadi to worlds wealthiest people list for next year?

[Lilly]

Their goals? Territory, wealth, power, killing of Infidels...repeat over and over until world domination results.