Archaeoacoustics Chichen Itza

[WVK]

In the Fall of 1994, while walking inside the Great Ballcourt at Chichen Itza, a conversation between a man and woman became apparent to me. The sound of their voices was non directional and intimate as if were were in a small room together. Oddly there was nobody within at least 150 ft of were I stood. As a person who has always paid attention to sound this was unusual to say the least. At the time I was unaware that the Great Ballcourt had been noted for acoustics. Curious I did some research and put the results on the internet for comment:

[www.tomzap.com]

David Lubman picked up on this and developed "An archaeological study of chirped echo from the Mayan pyramid of Kukulkan at Chichen Itza:

[www.ocasa.org]

In 2002 David and I met in Chichen Itza and wondered around listening for other acoustical effects in addition to those at GBC and the Pyramid of Kukulkan. We found that a voice will resonate strongly when standing in the center of the entrances. of El Caracol This effect is also noticeable to someone standing outside the structure.

http://chichenitzaru...ces/el-caracol/

A most interesting acoustical effect can be heard by clapping in front of the staircase of the Temple of the Warriors. The result is a quetzal like reflection from the stairs (like the one in front of El Castilo) followed by a long rattlesnake like ZZZZZZZzzzzzz sound that reflects from the colonnade.

https://video.search...rt=mozilla&tt=b

It should be noted that feathered rattlesnake piers are located on top of the staircase:

[www.ancientamericas.org]

WVK

[Davros of Skaro]

The more magical you make your Temple, the more you dupe the masses.

[Harte]

How, exactly, is it determined that an acoustic reflection is "quetzal like?"

Harte

[Jarocal]

How, exactly, is it determined that an acoustic reflection is "quetzal like?"

Harte

Is Archaeoacoustics even a real discipline?

[Hanslune]

1994? I noticed the echo effect in both ball courts and off stone temples in 1975 - echos happen when you use stone. Go to any intact (reasonably) Greek or Roman theatre and you can hear amazing distances the slightest whispers.

[Hanslune]

Is Archaeoacoustics even a real discipline?

Hmmmm, https://classicalstudies.org/scs-news/cfp-archaeoacoustics-ii-conference-archaeology-sound

http://www.findaphd.com/search/projectdetails.aspx?PJID=34590

[Harte]

Ask Quetzal:

Harte

[WVK]

How, exactly, is it determined that an acoustic reflection is "quetzal like?"

Harte

The sound reflected from the steps of TofW is sound similar to the sound reflected from the Pyramid of Kukulkan which is similar to a quetzal:

http://www.ocasa.org/sounds/qqcaca.mp3

http://www.ocasa.org/MayanPyramid.htm

wvk

[WVK]

1994? I noticed the echo effect in both ball courts and off stone temples in 1975 - echos happen when you use stone. Go to any intact (reasonably) Greek or Roman theatre and you can hear amazing distances the slightest whispers.

The transmission of sound in the GBC from one end to the other is not an "echo".

[Harte]

The sound reflected from the steps of TofW is sound similar to the sound reflected from the Pyramid of Kukulkan which is similar to a quetzal:

http://www.ocasa.org/sounds/qqcaca.mp3

http://www.ocasa.org/MayanPyramid.htm

wvk

Sound's like quote mining. Funny enough when quoting a bird.

Here's the song:

http://ibc.lynxeds.com/files/audio/R09_2204-Resplendant-Quetzal.mp3

At least I know what you mean by "quetzal-like" anyway.

Harte

[Hanslune]

The transmission of sound in the GBC from one end to the other is not an "echo".

Then what creates it? Is this like the moaning statues?

[jaylemurph]

1994? I noticed the echo effect in both ball courts and off stone temples in 1975 - echos happen when you use stone. Go to any intact (reasonably) Greek or Roman theatre and you can hear amazing distances the slightest whispers.

...and that's just with the basic architecture: such places also used to have big pots turned upside down used to help transmit and amplify sound.

--Jaylemurph

[Jarocal]

Then what creates it? Is this like the moaning statues?

No, it is moaning Myrtle from Hogwarts...

[pbarosso]

apparently we are to somehow believe that the not very ancient aztecs (14-1500's) were magical and so connected with the arcane and perhaps alien harbingers of doom, that they were able to do what no other civilization was able to do...but wait, other civies did do it.

so either the not so ancient aztecs were way way way behind the europeans and middle east superior cultures, or its just regular everyday crap.

[WVK]

Then what creates it? Is this like the moaning statues?

The GBC is a whispering gallery:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whispering_gallery#Other_parts_of_the_world

[Hanslune]

The GBC is a whispering gallery:

https://en.wikipedia...ts_of_the_world

Thanks I understand what you are referring too echo was not the correct word for this its is a more a (word I cannot think of but amplifier might do) sound device.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Hanslune

[lightly]

yup... many structures, including Amphitheaters of the old world, were Designed to enhance sound.

They must have learned the principle from noticing how sound behaved in certain natural areas ?

[WVK]

The Acoustic Raindrop Effect at Mexican Pyramids: The Architects' Homage to the Rain God Chac?

Abstract:Mesoamerican pyramids have been in the center of attention ever since their discovery by westerners because of their architectural beauty, their physical connection to ancient Indian cultures, their relationship to astronomy and religion or simply because of their monumental size and attractive decor for tourist pictures. An acoustic effect first encountered by Declercq (reported in J. Acoust. Soc. Am. 116(6), 3328-3335, 2004) is the raindrop effect. When visitors climb the colossal staircase of Maya pyramids, their footsteps are transformed into sound having distinct frequencies similar to raindrops falling in a bucket filled with water. The current paper reports in situ experiments followed by numerical simulations of the raindrop effect together with a physical explanation. In addition to numerical simulations, a rule of thumb formula is extracted from the calculations that enable the prediction of the acoustic raindrop frequency at any other pyramid in Mexico. If the raindrop effect is a phenomenon that was intentionally incorporated in the construction of the Maya pyramids, such as the pyramid in Chichen Itza, then it was most probably related to the rain god Chac for which there is ubiquitous archaeological evidence decorated on the pyramid itself.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/dav/aaua/2009/00000095/00000005/art00009?token=00461032275c277b42573a464c4870347345496e59592f653b672c57582a72752d70ad

[Kenemet]

That 'raindrop effect' sounds like even more of a reach. Water dropping into a bucket sounds different depending on the type of bucket (metallic, pottery, etc).

I would think that if it was deliberate, the same phenomenon would be present in all sacred spaces. It would not be an individual sort of thing.

[Swede]

Thanks I understand what you are referring too echo was not the correct word for this its is a more a (word I cannot think of but amplifier might do) sound device.

Would you be referring to reverberation ie "reverb"?

.

[WVK]

Is Archaeoacoustics even a real discipline?

https://ccrma.stanfo...in/project.html

http://www.otsf.org/...oacoustics.html

http://www.ancient-o...s-cybele-002846

http://www.academia....ntre_of_Caylán

http://www.researchg..._Preveza_Greece

http://scholar.color...ext=honr_theses

https://www.archaeol.../abstracts/5874

http://arstechnica.c...-of-stonehenge/

http://www.princeton...-structures.pdf

http://www.ctm-festi...chaeoacoustics/

http://www.academia....rchaeoacoustics

[freetoroam]

Here is another link, listen to what the words say:

http://landscape-perception.com/archaeoacoustics/

[Podo]

Maybe an explanation of this subject is in order for those of us who don't have the time or desire to read thirty links first.

[Kenemet]

The problem here is the reproducibility.

We see Greek amphitheaters designed to enhance sound - and that's indisputable. The design element appears in every large amphitheatre after a certain time period. Case proven there. The studies of kivas also suggest the plausibility that they might have been acoustically designed to some degree.

For the Aztecs and Incas, though, the material isn't consistent.

[kmt_sesh]

Moderator's note:

I've merged the new archaeoaccoustics thread into this one. We do not need two threads on the same topic.