Still Waters Posted December 12, 2015 #1 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Italian archaeologists have discovered the wreck of a Roman ship laden with thousands of jars containing the ketchup of the ancient Romans - a pungent, fish-based seasoning known as garum. Considered a delicacy, the smelly liquid was mass produced in factories, especially in Spain and Portugal. Resting at a depth of more than 650 feet in the waters off the Ligurian coast near Alassio, the vessel is estimated to be 98 feet long and dates between the first and the second century A.D. http://news.discover...ound-151211.htm 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted December 12, 2015 #2 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Where we have to add, Garum was not only "Ketchup", it contains Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) in a very high concentration. That is the magic stuff that the food industry uses to convert 1 chicken wing into 40 gallons of chicken soup (also known as "flavor enhancer"). Romans even used garum to enhance the flavor of strawberries. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubblykiss Posted December 12, 2015 #3 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Where we have to add, Garum was not only "Ketchup", it contains Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) in a very high concentration. That is the magic stuff that the food industry uses to convert 1 chicken wing into 40 gallons of chicken soup (also known as "flavor enhancer"). Romans even used garum to enhance the flavor of strawberries. I was going to post the same with notes on how they used it on desserts as well. And just for fun, some etymology; ketchup (n.) 1711, said to be from Malay kichap, but probably not original to Malay. It might have come from Chinese koechiap "brine of fish," which, if authentic, perhaps is from the Chinese community in northern Vietnam [Terrien de Lacouperie, in "Babylonian and Oriental Record," 1889, 1890]. Catsup (earlier catchup, 1680s) is a failed attempt at Englishing, still in use in U.S., influenced by cat and sup. Originally a fish sauce, the word came to be used in English for a wide variety of spiced gravies and sauces; "Apicius Redivivus; or, the Cook's Oracle," by William Kitchiner, London, 1817, devotes 7 pages to recipes for different types of catsup (his book has 1 spelling of ketchup, 72 of catsup), including walnut, mushroom, oyster, cockle and mussel, tomata, white (vinegar and anchovies figure in it), cucumber, and pudding catsup. Chambers's Encyclopaedia (1870) lists mushroom, walnut, and tomato ketchup as "the three most esteemed kinds." Tomato ketchup emerged c. 1800 in U.S. and predominated from early 20c. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldorado Posted December 12, 2015 #4 Share Posted December 12, 2015 The Cook's Oracle by a guy named Kitchiner. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted December 14, 2015 #5 Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) To enhance flavor for sometimes seriously bland food, well, I guess... better than nothing I suppose. Edited December 14, 2015 by pallidin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted December 15, 2015 #6 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I've always wondered what "fish sauce" tastes like. A sauce made from fish just doesn't sound terribly appetizing. Which leads me to wonder if, after a thousand-plus years, the fish sauce has turned bad yet. I recommend questionmark be the one to try it first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted December 15, 2015 #7 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) I've always wondered what "fish sauce" tastes like. A sauce made from fish just doesn't sound terribly appetizing. Which leads me to wonder if, after a thousand-plus years, the fish sauce has turned bad yet. I recommend questionmark be the one to try it first. Well, you can go to any shop where they sell Thai food and buy some fish sauce... though it is not exactly the same as the Roman. The other approach is to make your own. And, I will certainly not put anything in my mouth with an use by date that has expired 2000 years ago. Edited December 15, 2015 by questionmark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted December 15, 2015 #8 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I've always wondered what "fish sauce" tastes like. A sauce made from fish just doesn't sound terribly appetizing. Which leads me to wonder if, after a thousand-plus years, the fish sauce has turned bad yet. I recommend questionmark be the one to try it first. The Vietnamese equivalent is fermented fish paste, from which a sauce can be made if you dilute it in oil and soy and lots of sugar and some hot peppers. Taken in moderation it is quite good, but a little goes a long way.As I understand it the Greeks took the Roman taste for the stuff as proof positive how barbaric Romans were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted December 15, 2015 #9 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) So, if I understand correctly (?) this specific fish slime concoction was/is a "seasoning" as opposed to a primary food (?) For what reason? To add saltiness alone I can't readily see, but perhaps a complex salty flavor enhancer? Makes me wonder what they were eating that would tend towards requiring such... Edited December 15, 2015 by pallidin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingitsune Posted December 16, 2015 #10 Share Posted December 16, 2015 It's not just salty, the fished are there to add umami, flavor,. Roughly, on top of the four classical sense of taste, salty, sweet, bitter and acide, there is a fifth one. A Japanese scientist realized raw fish broth was tasty of its own right although it didn't have any of the four classical taste in it. Of course, the food industry didn't let the find go to waste and have been adding "flavor" in a lot of recipes for decades now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted December 20, 2015 #11 Share Posted December 20, 2015 So, if I understand correctly (?) this specific fish slime concoction was/is a "seasoning" as opposed to a primary food (?) For what reason? To add saltiness alone I can't readily see, but perhaps a complex salty flavor enhancer? Makes me wonder what they were eating that would tend towards requiring such... As I pointed out before, it is because the fermentation causes a chemical reaction that produces MSG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_Dresden Posted December 20, 2015 #12 Share Posted December 20, 2015 As I pointed out before, it is because the fermentation causes a chemical reaction that produces MSG Heston Blumenthal, the British chef, once recreated a Roman banquet for a TV show and he created garum. He didn't mention anything about MSG but he did say that it tasted something between Thai fish sauce and worcestershire sauce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oniomancer Posted December 20, 2015 #13 Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) I've always wondered what "fish sauce" tastes like. A sauce made from fish just doesn't sound terribly appetizing. Which leads me to wonder if, after a thousand-plus years, the fish sauce has turned bad yet. I recommend questionmark be the one to try it first. I picked some on sale in the regular supermarket to try once that was almost indistinguishable from soy sauce other than the slight fishy note. Edited December 20, 2015 by Oniomancer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted December 21, 2015 #14 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) I use fish sauce all the time, I prefer the Japanese style but for some dishes I use the Vietnamese. In my opinion this is the best version today (and I've tried them all): Shottsuru is a type of fish sauce from it is made from Hatahata - a type of fish. It probably has a taste similar to the Roman Garum. Edited December 21, 2015 by Hanslune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted December 21, 2015 #15 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I should pick some up, be good for pasta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted February 3, 2016 #16 Share Posted February 3, 2016 in related news: Scientists look to fish sauces as low-sodium flavor enhancer SUBANG JAYA, Malaysia, Feb. 2 (UPI) -- If you've ever had low-sodium soup out of a can, you can understand why scientists might be looking for a more flavorful way to reduce sodium levels. Salt, of course, is the world's preeminent flavor enhancer. But too much sodium can lead to high blood pressure. New research suggests fish sauce as a better low-sodium flavor booster. Read more and once again demonstrated: there is nothing new under the sun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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