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The Planet's Demise


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#16    atrueoriginall

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 03:49 PM

*digests information after reading very long post*...........*ponders on what to say*............hmmmmm...

Art:  I say what I can when I can and try to be as proactive as I can be.  If we were all a little more the same, we would all be living in a much different world.  

The fears we experience in just knowing the problems of today cause other fears.   Stress from our fears make us physically sick and both consciously and subconsciously we know that.  So instead, we push them aside with an uncaring attitude accordingly with the excuse that they (the people) are so small and the problems seem too big to do anything about on an idividual basis.

The more important issue is just that however.  Not to mention that most people think someone else is going to do something about it for them, so why act.

Even science is disagreeing with science.  We need a good ole Berkley repeat performance, but this time on global conditions and not a war like Vietnam.

Students today, the Java Generation, are more caught up in just talking about it and not the doers of yesteryear.

Edited by atrueoriginall, 12 December 2004 - 04:07 PM.


#17    Looter

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 04:34 PM

Don't worry Global Warming will save the World. For most of geologic history there have been no Polar Ice Caps, during the Carboniferous period and the age of the dinosaurs the Earth was a tropical paradise, in fact there was more life on Earth during that age than there is now. The Earth is still recovering from the Ice Ages, now that was a real ecological disaster, much of the Earth is still uninhabitable because of cold. Global warming will create more rain and rising sea levels thus saving both the tropical rainforests and the coral reefs. So, don't let those Luddites bring back the Dark Ages; light a candle for Global Warming, and play "Here Comes the Sun".

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#18    atrueoriginall

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 06:49 PM

[quote=Looter,Dec 12 2004, 08:34 AM]
Don't worry Global Warming will save the World. For most of geologic history there have been no Polar Ice Caps.........

But Looter, we're talking about global warming created by man and not that of nature, which we know will too happen again.  Man is not God that he can destroy our home and the lives of multitudes who are to live in the future.  These people will die.  Most of them anyway for again multitudes of reasons.  

This is one of the biggest problems with global warming and other not so natural ocurrances today, we know we won't be alive to live through them and we, as a whole, don't seem to care about the unborn child.  Why must we only think of ourselves.

It's like a bad renter that rents somebody's home and treats it accordingly.  It's not mine, so I don't care that I just put a whole in the wall or that I pour grease down the kitchen drain.  Or that overflow I had in the toilet has formed a black mold, but it won't hurt me and I'm moving soon so I'll just leave it for the next tenant.

Earth is our home and we are the landlord.


#19    seeking

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 08:08 PM

QUOTE(seeking @ Dec 12 2004, 07:26 AM)
name me one thing we as humans have created or done that has effected humanity on a world wide scale that will lead to our demise

and im talking things that are NOT natural, things that only us as humans could have done, im going to say this now to hault the responses now so i dont have to come back and say it

global warming is a natural earth cycle, pollution or not, hole in ozone or not  it will still happen

nukes are not going to end the world as we as humans know the dangers and have not used them since hiroshima, and even if they were to go off the world as we know it would not end, were still going strong after bombing hiroshima

abuse of resources is not going to end the world as we know it as we are allready working towards more fuel effecient engines as well as hybrids and hydrogen powered cars

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...still waiting


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#20    Me_Again

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 08:52 PM

People treat the earth like they treat themselves...
Recycling 2 glass jars conserves enough energy to watch T.V. for 2 hours  w00t.gif

Yellow Smiley offers me X
Like he's drinkiní 7-Up
I would rather drink 6 razor blades
Razor blades from a paper cup
He can't understand, I say 2 tough
It's just that I've seen the future and, boy, it's rough
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#21    atrueoriginall

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 07:01 AM

[quote=seeking,Dec 12 2004, 12:08 PM]

...still waiting

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/climate/

Edited by atrueoriginall, 13 December 2004 - 07:53 AM.


#22    wolftrax

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 07:45 AM

Very good post and topic Atrueoriginal.

Effects of humans on the environment, or more appropriately, ourselves. Let's start with dolphins.

QUOTE
What geneticists have found is that the dolphin genome and the human genome are basically homologous -- the same. "It's just that there are a few chromosomal rearrangements that have changed the way the genetic material is put together," Busbee says
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/science/9902/04/dolphins.enn/


QUOTE
Human pollution, furthermore,† has had a devastating effect on the immune system of bottlenose dolphins.† In the past decade, there have been at least five massive "die-offs" of marine mammals; almost 3000 bottlenose dolphin carcasses were found.† Scientists isolated strains of morbillivirus. Outbreaks of infection alone are unlikely to have accounted for the huge death toll; the events all had something else in common: they took place along polluted coastlines. Suspicion fell on compounds such as PCBs and pesticides. These compounds, collectively called organochlorines, persist for many years in the environment and have been closely linked to reduced immunity and fertility in mammals.† Marine animals with a pollution-rich diet had a harder time dealing with common infections than their counterparts, and the activity of key immune cells, called natural killer cells, was lower than in the animals fed unpolluted food (Simmonds, 1999).†
http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/e/x/exv131/


Are you sure your tuna is dolphin safe? You are, after all, what you eat:
QUOTE
The Bush administration has decided that a controversial fishing method involving encircling pods of dolphins with mile long nets to catch tuna has "no significant adverse impact" on the dolphins. Conservation groups say the determination, which will allow tuna from Mexico to be sold in the U.S. under a "dolphin safe" label, could spell disaster for imperiled dolphin populations. On December 31, the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) announced that after new research, it had concluded that the tuna purse seine industry practice of encircling dolphins to catch tuna has "no significant adverse impact on dolphin populations in the Eastern Tropical Pacific Ocean." The announcement came less than a month after a conservation group released an unpublished NMFS report indicating that thousands of dolphins, particularly baby dolphins, are still dying in tuna nets in the eastern tropical Pacific.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/Toxic/0122...na_dolphins.cfm


Below, the body of a dead bottlenose dolphin, a suspected victim of pollution.

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Edited by wolftrax, 13 December 2004 - 07:52 AM.


#23    wolftrax

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 07:51 AM

Let's take a look at that nasty hole in the ozone layer, or the smog over your local city, and skin cancer:

QUOTE
Skin Effects of Air Pollution (Goldsmith, NAPE Conference )
Skin cancer is increasing, with an estimated 1 million new cases being diagnosed and 9,100 people dying of skin cancer in 1993 in the United States. Most skin cancer deaths are from melanoma skin cancers, and 33,000 melanomas were diagnosed in 1993. The most common skin cancers are basal cell carcinoma (76%), squamous cell carcinoma (19%), and melanoma (5%). Skin cancers are most closely associated with exposure to ultraviolet B irradiation (UV-cool.gif.  Depletion of the ozone layer allows harmful amounts of UV-B to reach biological systems, where it is believed to cause serious genetic damage. Specifically, UV-B impairs the ability of damaged DNA to repair itself. Two species of frogs in Oregon are declining in significant numbers, possibly because of a diminished capacity to repair UV-B and UV-C genetic injuries subsequent to regional depletion of the ozone layer, which has been observed.
http://www.nutramed.com/skin/airpollution.htm





#24    wolftrax

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 08:28 AM

And yeah, fuel cells and alternative fuels would help us out a lot, the problem is the same people that tell you that what we are going through now is natural, there's no danger from pollution, etc. also tell you those alternative fuels are too expensive to use. Of course they are the same people that used to work for the tobacco companies using "Science" to convince people that cigarettes weren't as dangerous as they really are.

A good thing Phoenix college challenged this notion, they converted a truck to alternative fuels for 10,000$. Not too bad when you consider that's practically a new vehicle.

Another thing is that you don't have to be scared or in denial. There are many sources on the web where you can learn about environmental issues, and do something about it. Petitions, letters to your state senator, etc. might sound like a lot of work, but many sites have it all ready for you, you just click your mouse and off it goes! Your voice does make a difference.

Edited by wolftrax, 13 December 2004 - 08:31 AM.


#25    seeking

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 11:24 PM

none of those things mentioned are going to lead to our planets demise, none of those things will even lead to our extinction, they may be problems but that does not mean we are gong to all die from it, everyone and everything has problems, and getting through them is what life is about, we will get through all of them

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#26    Maekrix

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 01:43 AM

I completely concur...












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#27    wolftrax

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 02:30 AM

QUOTE(seeking @ Dec 13 2004, 03:24 PM)
none of those things mentioned are going to lead to our planets demise, none of those things will even lead to our extinction, they may be problems but that does not mean we are gong to all die from it, everyone and everything has problems, and getting through them is what life is about, we will get through all of them

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  And what information is there that supports that? Presented is information that shows the effects of pollution on dolphins, which if you eat tuna you most likely eat, and also has very similar DNA to us, therefore what they eat we also eat and can be affected in the same way, and pollution has been shown to be very destructive to them. Also it was taken one step further to be shown the hole in the ozone layer and pollution has resulted in a dramatic rise in cases of skin cancer.

This is affecting people worldwide, read the posts and links again. If it does not, prove it.

Yes, getting through problems is what life is about, you solve your problems with solutions instead of ignoring them.


#28    Mysteryman

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 03:18 AM

QUOTE(seeking @ Dec 12 2004, 02:26 AM)
name me one thing we as humans have created or done that has effected humanity on a world wide scale that will lead to our demise

and im talking things that are NOT natural, things that only us as humans could have done, im going to say this now to hault the responses now so i dont have to come back and say it

global warming is a natural earth cycle, pollution or not, hole in ozone or not  it will still happen

nukes are not going to end the world as we as humans know the dangers and have not used them since hiroshima, and even if they were to go off the world as we know it would not end, were still going strong after bombing hiroshima

abuse of resources is not going to end the world as we know it as we are allready working towards more fuel effecient engines as well as hybrids and hydrogen powered cars

View Post



Also about the "hole in ozone or not it will still happen", very true. Example: Lighting (not manmade) strikes against a dry wood forest and starts a fire where many dried leaves take place. The smoke will still in a way destroy the o-zone layer.

But there are ways if you think about it that we destroy our planet. Its kind of sad how people abuse the planet they live on...The people who appreciate life and the planet they live on are the people who continue to deserve to live. But the people who abuse our planet and don't think about other people shouldn't deserve to be living. But of course, this is planet Earth and that will never happen, hate to say it... hmm.gif

What makes up our planets curiosity, is what makes up the unexplained-mysteries of our planet, Earth.

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#29    seeking

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 10:17 PM

we are not dolphins we have the intelligence, know-how, and ability to keep us surviving, dolphins do not, same genetic structure, same diet, ect does not mean we are the same, we as humans are not going to kill our selves through any of these means, my proof is that it is almost 2005, we as humans have been around for thousands of years now and have allready gotten through the roughest and most harsh times, its smooth sailing from like 1000 years ago and on

of coarse there will be things that come up, but they will hardly bring the world to an end

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#30    xxsunshinegodxx

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 10:38 PM

QUOTE(seeking @ Dec 14 2004, 11:17 PM)
we are not dolphins we have the intelligence, know-how, and ability to keep us surviving, dolphins do not, same genetic structure, same diet, ect does not mean we are the same, we as humans are not going to kill our selves through any of these means, my proof is that it is almost 2005, we as humans have been around for thousands of years now and have allready gotten through the roughest and most harsh times, its smooth sailing from like 1000 years ago and on

of coarse there will be things that come up, but they will hardly bring the world to an end

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Seeking...sorry but I think you are talking rubbish!!! If you think it is plain sailing now compared toi 1000 years ago then you celarly don't get out an awful lot...sorry to say it but it's pretty easy to see that you must be an American...cause only an American could come out with that kind of pompous and self righteous attitude!!

Firstly, before I insult all Americans, I mean that because your president is one of the only world leaders who would not even discuss cutting down on Greenhouse gasses or pollution even though the United States is the worst offender!!!

As for us having it better than 1000 years ago...I guess you must feel like you do but as I said...you probably dont get out much!

If you lived 1000 years ago, you would be ruled by the Church...your entire life you would be told how you can live it by the church because you are either living by the will of God or you are being tempted by the Devil!

It was only in the 16th Century that this outlook on life broke down as people realised that the world wasnt flat, the universe didnt revolve around the Earth and that infact most of the Church Proprieters were indeed Charlatans!!

Since then man has been on a mission to try and seek out and conquer the Earth, orginally to try and find the Spiritual meaning but in the mean time getting so self obsessed with the pleasures and comfofts that can be found in the world that he hasnt progressed much.

I admit that this must have been a nessecary advancement in mankind, without it we would not have the technology or understanding that we do. However, it is ignorance that will eventually lead to the demise of many from this great planet. The ignorance that living in a world filled with material possesions and living for your Ego will eventualy show you.

We are verging on a point of critical mass where it will become apparant that things have to change and that change is coming very soon. Maybe it will not be the end of the world as you percieve it but perception is a very personal thing.

"Seven blunders of the world that lead to violence... wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics without principle." ~ Mahatma Gandhi




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