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The Alma (Almasti)


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#1    Richdog

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 01:35 PM

I have been reading a lot about bigfoot types lately, and one of them has started to stand out among the others in terms of being realistically possible.  The Almasti (Alma) are supposedly a race of neanderthal-like beings that stioll live in the untamed wilds of Siberia.  Now the difference between this and other cases of this ilk are that the locals of the affected areas have accepted them as part and parcel of life for hundreds of years, they are not a new and wondreous thing to them.

QUOTE
In the Altai Mountains of Mongolia, wild men known as Almas have been seen and known about by the area people for years. When people first settled this region, it is told how they drove the "WILD MEN" out of the immediate area. Dr. Myra Shackley actually went to the Altai Mountains and gathered evidence of the existence of these wild men known as Almas.  http://www.coverups.com/bigfoot.htm


A local tale from as little ago as the 20th century tells of a female that was supposedly captured and domesticated... an Alma they named Zana.

QUOTE
A Professor Porshnev investigated the case of a female Alma, described as having ape-like features and covered in hair, who was captured by the Altai Mountain people in the mid-nineteenth century. Called Zana, she eventually was domesticated and could do simple tasks such as grind corn. She loved grapes and wine, and after drinking heavily, would crash out for hours, which explains how she became pregnant several times. Her children, being half modern man, could talk and were rational human beings. The last of her children died in 1954. Professor Porshnev however interviewed her grandson, who had dark skin and Negroid features. His jaw was so strong that he could pick up a chair with a man sitting on it with his mouth. http://www.coverups.com/bigfoot.htm


The area they are purported to roam is massive, and has had very little human encroachment, not to mention the weather conditions are extreme, meaning explorations are not too frequent.  If a form of Neanderthal man was able to have survived anywhere in the world this would be as good as any.  The area is also rich with neanderthal caves and artifacts.

Here are some more links and info on the creatures, which I dunno just seem far more theoretically possible then the "regular" bigfoots that are reported.  What do you think?

http://www.paranormality.com/alma.shtml

http://www.occultopedia.com/a/almas.htm

http://home.twcny.rr.com/bigfootsasquatch/almas.html

http://www.unmuseum.org/alma.htm

http://members.axion.net/~a1b00267/ultranet/almas.htm

http://www.n2.net/prey/bigfoot/articles/russian.htm

original.gif

Edited by Richdog, 12 December 2004 - 01:36 PM.

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#2    FreyKade

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 01:55 PM

nice find...not sure if they would be the source of the bigfoot myth, unless they were wearing lots of fur and weren't seen much of or closley

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#3    Mad Manfred

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 02:01 PM

It's possible, very nice find thumbsup.gif

Had no idea about these guys.

Edited by Mad Manfred, 12 December 2004 - 02:01 PM.


#4    Richdog

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 02:03 PM

QUOTE(FreyKade @ Dec 12 2004, 02:55 PM)
nice find...not sure if they would be the source of the bigfoot myth, unless they were wearing lots of fur and weren't seen much of or closley

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No I don't think they are the source of the higfoot theory at all, I don't think they're in the same category as bigfoot... far more man-like than ape-like.  Things like this just tend to get grouped together though.  Iwould bank on isolated groups of neanderthal-style families thay managed to remain in an area unchanged in weather patterns for thousands of years, no encoachment of humans into territory etc and maybe because of this harsh climate, it meant that early homo-sapiens couldn't live there, therefore the Alma had no competition like in the rest of the world where man dominated.

Interesting if you ask me, whether it's true or not.  Even as a calm, rational sort I think there's some possibility of this sort of thing having real basis. original.gif

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“Well what did you expect to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window? Sydney Opera House perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically accross the pains…?” - Basil Fawlty, in response to an old woman complaining about the view out of her English guesthouse window.

#5    Richdog

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 09:14 PM

Whoa big study on the Alma female Zana here, stretched over a few pages, ery interesting read http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/5...dman/ZANA1.html

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“Well what did you expect to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window? Sydney Opera House perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically accross the pains…?” - Basil Fawlty, in response to an old woman complaining about the view out of her English guesthouse window.

#6    koenig212003

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 10:00 PM

QUOTE(Richdog @ Dec 12 2004, 07:35 AM)
I have been reading a lot about bigfoot types lately, and one of them has started to stand out among the others in terms of being realistically possible.  The Almasti (Alma) are supposedly a race of neanderthal-like beings that stioll live in the untamed wilds of Siberia.  Now the difference between this and other cases of this ilk are that the locals of the affected areas have accepted them as part and parcel of life for hundreds of years, they are not a new and wondreous thing to them.

QUOTE
In the Altai Mountains of Mongolia, wild men known as Almas have been seen and known about by the area people for years. When people first settled this region, it is told how they drove the "WILD MEN" out of the immediate area. Dr. Myra Shackley actually went to the Altai Mountains and gathered evidence of the existence of these wild men known as Almas.  http://www.coverups.com/bigfoot.htm


A local tale from as little ago as the 20th century tells of a female that was supposedly captured and domesticated... an Alma they named Zana.

QUOTE
A Professor Porshnev investigated the case of a female Alma, described as having ape-like features and covered in hair, who was captured by the Altai Mountain people in the mid-nineteenth century. Called Zana, she eventually was domesticated and could do simple tasks such as grind corn. She loved grapes and wine, and after drinking heavily, would crash out for hours, which explains how she became pregnant several times. Her children, being half modern man, could talk and were rational human beings. The last of her children died in 1954. Professor Porshnev however interviewed her grandson, who had dark skin and Negroid features. His jaw was so strong that he could pick up a chair with a man sitting on it with his mouth. http://www.coverups.com/bigfoot.htm


The area they are purported to roam is massive, and has had very little human encroachment, not to mention the weather conditions are extreme, meaning explorations are not too frequent.  If a form of Neanderthal man was able to have survived anywhere in the world this would be as good as any.  The area is also rich with neanderthal caves and artifacts.

Here are some more links and info on the creatures, which I dunno just seem far more theoretically possible then the "regular" bigfoots that are reported.  What do you think?

http://www.paranormality.com/alma.shtml

http://www.occultopedia.com/a/almas.htm

http://home.twcny.rr.com/bigfootsasquatch/almas.html

http://www.unmuseum.org/alma.htm

http://members.axion.net/~a1b00267/ultranet/almas.htm

http://www.n2.net/prey/bigfoot/articles/russian.htm

original.gif

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They wouldn't be Neanderthal-like beings because Neanderthals only lived in Europe and never made it out to Asia.  So if this area you are referring to is in Siberia then it CANNOT be "rich with neanderthal caves and artifacts."  Do you perhaps mean Homo erectus-like beings?  Homo erectus did live in Asia.  To say they are Neanderthal-like and then say they have ape-like features and are covered with hair makes no sense.  Neanderthals didn't look like that.  Its a common misconception that Neanderthals were a hairy, hunched over cave dwelling brute draggin around a club, his knuckles, or women.  I would suggest more research on what Neanderthals were REALLY like and you will see that if these Almas do exist they have no connection whatsoever with Homo neanderthalensis.


#7    Richdog

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 10:44 PM

QUOTE(koenig212003 @ Dec 12 2004, 11:00 PM)
They wouldn't be Neanderthal-like beings because Neanderthals only lived in Europe and never made it out to Asia.  So if this area you are referring to is in Siberia then it CANNOT be "rich with neanderthal caves and artifacts."  Do you perhaps mean Homo erectus-like beings?  Homo erectus did live in Asia.  To say they are Neanderthal-like and then say they have ape-like features and are covered with hair makes no sense.  Neanderthals didn't look like that.  Its a common misconception that Neanderthals were a hairy, hunched over cave dwelling brute draggin around a club, his knuckles, or women.  I would suggest more research on what Neanderthals were REALLY like and you will see that if these Almas do exist they have no connection whatsoever with Homo neanderthalensis.


Well this was taken from the article...

QUOTE
Though one additional note is that in the geographic region of the story of Zana there is evidence of Neanderthal and Homo erectus


This article below also states Neanderthals were in Siberia if you take a quick read... http://members.aol.com/althist1/Jan01/neanderthal.htm

QUOTE
Neanderthals in Siberia begin feeling the pressure of modern humanity's expansion about the same time Europe's do, though the process is somewhat slower there.


And this piece below from this link... http://www.centerfirstamericans.com/mt.html?a=11

QUOTE
Neanderthals fashioned characteristic tools in northwestern Europe toward 200,000 years ago. Use of their tools can be traced eastward to Mongolia and Siberia, but not to China or Japan or towards Southeast Asia. Although no conclusive skeletal evidence of Neanderthals has been found in Siberia, cultural continuity implies their presence.


And read this exerpt from this .PDF http://www.promega.com/geneticidproc/ussym...ent/goodwin.pdf

QUOTE
Excavations between 1987-1997 of the Mezmaiskaya Cave, which is located within the Northern Caucasus in southern Russia 1'310m above sea level revealed the remains of a Neanderthal infant...


And *yawn* another snippet here from this page... http://www.vnn.org/world/WD0003/WD30-5773.html

QUOTE
The DNA extracted from the ribs of a Neanderthal infant buried in southern Russia 29,000 years ago was found to be too distinct from modern human DNA to be related.


And now the clinching piece from here... http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4855079/

QUOTE
For more than 100,000 years, Neanderthals roamed across a vast region from Spain to southern Russia and western Asia, overlapping with anatomically modern man ...


Now to me, this many credible sources (vs your umm no offence... less credible one) stating that Neanderthal man made it to Asia and Russia... well... original.gif

Edited by Richdog, 12 December 2004 - 11:15 PM.

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“Well what did you expect to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window? Sydney Opera House perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically accross the pains…?” - Basil Fawlty, in response to an old woman complaining about the view out of her English guesthouse window.

#8    Mysteryman

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 12:05 AM

I would consider the fact that bigfoot's are related to or are surving neanderthals not fully developed or in a way a mutated species...anyone agree with me?

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#9    koenig212003

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 12:12 AM

A site called Teshik-Tash in present day Uzbekistan is the farthest west any Neanderthal remains have been found.  Some specimens attributed to Neanderthals have been found in western Asia but are not what are referred to as "classic" Neanderthal because the suite of traits they posess is different than those found in Europe.  These Western Asia specimens and those from the Middle East (Tabun in Israel) and even Central Europe (Vindija) are far less robust and were simply denoted as Neanderthals for lack of a better term.  Now correct me if I'm wrong but although Uzbekistan is technically in Asia, it is far from Siberia.  You have to remember how vast of an area this is.  Besides this presence in extreme western Asia does not in any way show that they were widespread all across Asia.  Or perhaps all those college courses I took in getting my bachelors and masters degrees in Anthroplogy were incorrect?  My sources come from notes taken in college courses, refereed journals, and the various textbooks I used as well.  Online sources are simply not acceptable because the information obtained from them may or may not be accurate and there is no way to verify it.  So I would say my info. is quite credible.


#10    Mysteryman

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 12:15 AM

I would like to check it out, think you can provide the site. Is it in English though?

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#11    Mysteryman

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 12:16 AM

I would like to check it out, think you can provide the site. Is it in English though?

Sorry - computers glitching...

Edited by Mysteryman, 13 December 2004 - 12:17 AM.

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#12    koenig212003

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 12:20 AM

QUOTE(Mysteryman @ Dec 12 2004, 06:05 PM)
I would consider the fact that bigfoot's are related to or are surving neanderthals not fully developed or in a way a mutated species...anyone agree with me?

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Not necessarily, they would most likely be the descendants of one of the Gigantopithecus species (G. blacki, G. bilaspurensis, or G. Giganteus) which are known from some remains recovered from Asia.  They date as far back as the late miocene (8mil BP) to as recently as the Pleistocene.  The size is certainly similar but no post-cranial elements of Gigantopithecus species have been recovered so it is not known for sure whether or not they were indeed upright/bipedal as most reports of Bigfoot contend.  Neanderthals were quite short (shorter than us) and the reported descriptions of Bigfoot don't sound anything like Neanderthals.  So my guess would be (if Bigfoot does exist) either a Giganto. descendant or a descendant of some yet discovered species.


#13    Mysteryman

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 12:23 AM

Totally agree with you and your points ;-)...

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#14    wolftrax

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 01:01 AM

Not to mention Sasquatch or Almas lack of use of fire, stone tools, and wearing skins for protection from the elements, Neanderthals had all these at their disposal. Somepeople have theorized maybe they lost this knowledge, but I can attest once you learn to rely on something it 's very, very difficult to get by without it. Plus, there are just too many other candidates for an ancestor of both Almas and Sasquatch.

As for Zana, I've read they did do tests with her grandchildren's DNA and it was 100% human. Don't have the link handy though, maybe later if I can find it. The thing with the Almas is that there is a tradition of stories where they interracted with humans, and you'd think the researchers and expeditions would be able to draw one in if that was the case.

Out of what is most likely to exist, having grown up in the PNW and been to areas where no human was for miles and miles, I think they have plenty of room to survive, wether here or in Siberia.


#15    Mysteryman

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 01:08 AM

Well we can't really say that we know that Big foot lacked the use of fire, stone tools, and wearing skins for protection from the elements because the truth is we really haven't found any evidence based on where Bigfoot could possibly live and where his shelter is and storage is...Your right about the protection from elements because all sightings have not contained any leather or way of protection covering them...

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