Jesus and the Old Laws

[Dredimus]

What about this? Didn't Jesus say that not one jot or tittle of the Law will be changed? It seems difficult to square the two, as they seem contradictory. You may have a better grasp on the seeming contradiction than I do, so I would appreciate your take on the matter.

I decided to bring this to a new thread instead of continually derailing the conversation on the other. Please keep in mind that this is my own opinion and interpretation of the scripture... beyond that... keep in mind that though I am well versed in the scripture, I am not a believer of it. The "word" has been tainted by thousands of years of bad translation and man meddling... there is no way possible that the scripture as we know it today is the first word handed down.

In Hebrews (8:6-13), Jesus makes clear that the old testament was the law of the Jews, the new testament is the law for all nations. In my opinion this is where the beginning of Christianity takes place. This is further discussed in Galatians (3:24). To my understanding it states that the law of Moses (Old Testament) was the guidelines set forth until the coming of faith (Jesus). The old laws were nailed to the cross along with the sins of man. This is further discussed in Colossians (2:13-17). It explains that the sins/breaking of the old law are forever forgiven by the blood of Christ... "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.” You are no longer judged based on the old laws, you are based on your faith and substance in Christ...

[WoIverine]

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law.” (John7:19)

Edited February 11, 2016 by WoIverine

[Dredimus]

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law.” (John7:19)

Instead of tossing random verses out there... please contribute to the conversation... and within the verses you quote, please distinguish who he was talking to and about.. because that makes a vast difference. Its all about context. The first verse refers to what has passed and what is to come... The old laws were set down for the jews before the coming of the faith (Galatians)... as described in my OP. For the second verse there... the law was not invalidated... it was forgiven. The third is stating pretty much what I just said... fulfillment of the prophecy and of the law... it was nailed to the cross with him... etc... etc... etc...

[WoIverine]

The verses speak for themselves. You can interpret them however you want, context or no. Would you be willing to risk eternity (yours, and others) on your personal interpretation of the Word? I wouldn't want to answer for that, everyone needs to find their own interpretation, so that others are not mistakenly misled.

Edited February 11, 2016 by WoIverine

[Dredimus]

The verses speak for themselves. You can interpret them however you want, context or no. Would you be willing to risk eternity (yours, and others) on your personal interpretation of the Word? I wouldn't want to answer for that, everyone needs to find their own interpretation, so that others are not mistakenly misled.

If that is your view, then context definitely matters... So posting that one verse to support without providing the before and after and WHO l was being talked to or about... doesnt work.

[ellapenella]

I decided to bring this to a new thread instead of continually derailing the conversation on the other. Please keep in mind that this is my own opinion and interpretation of the scripture... beyond that... keep in mind that though I am well versed in the scripture, I am not a believer of it. The "word" has been tainted by thousands of years of bad translation and man meddling... there is no way possible that the scripture as we know it today is the first word handed down.

In Hebrews (8:6-13), Jesus makes clear that the old testament was the law of the Jews, the new testament is the law for all nations. In my opinion this is where the beginning of Christianity takes place. This is further discussed in Galatians (3:24). To my understanding it states that the law of Moses (Old Testament) was the guidelines set forth until the coming of faith (Jesus). The old laws were nailed to the cross along with the sins of man. This is further discussed in Colossians (2:13-17). It explains that the sins/breaking of the old law are forever forgiven by the blood of Christ... "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.” You are no longer judged based on the old laws, you are based on your faith and substance in Christ...

Being that Jesus was born in the middle east, I don't understand why middle easterners rejected his path and have either remained true to the Talmud or true to the false prophet Mohammad.

ETA - I know that there are some Christians there. But what I really don't understand is how can they not recognize that his path is the most peaceful loving path above the two others which the two others are of the old way.

The old way is so oppressive and cruel.

Jesus said that even a child understands his message. I think that like a child things are understood or seen and felt as fair or unfair. Right or wrong. Good or bad. It's that simple and so whenever people continue to defend something that is wrong,like the old way,they are in the wrong for doing so.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Ellapennella

[ellapenella]

Dredimus In Matthew 5 : 17 Jesus said that he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it.

From my bible it teaches this about what he referred to about the law. It's been a while since I've even opened it. Makes me feel sort of bad about not having had the interest in browsing over it for a while.

Throughout Israel's history these laws were often misquoted and misguided. By Jesus's time religious leaders had turned the laws into a confusing mass of rules. When Jesus talked about a new way to understand God's law,he was actually trying to bring people back to it's original purpose. He did not speak against the law itself,but against the abuses and excesses to which it had been subjected.

In saying that Jesus did not come to cancel the law,does that mean all of the Old Testament laws still apply to us today? In the Old Testament there were three categories of Law: ceremonial, civil, and moral.

The ceremonial related to Israel's worship. For example it's primary purpose was to point forward to Jesus Christ.These Laws therefore were no longer necessary after Jesus' death and resurrection. While we are no longer bounded by ceremonial laws, the principles behind them- to worship and love a Holy God-still apply. Jesus was often accused by the Pharisees of violating ceremonial law.

The civil law applied to daily living in Israel.Example-because modern culture and society are radically different from that time,all of these guidelines can not be followed specifically. But the principles behind the commandments are timeless and should guide our conduct.Jesus fulfilled these by example.

The Moral Law is the direct command of God,and it requires strict obedience It reveals the nature and will of God and still applies today. Jesus obeyed the moral law completely.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

Being that Jesus was born in the middle east, I don't understand why middle easterners rejected his path...

One of the reasons is that "throughout much of Jewish history, most Jews lived in the Diaspora."

"Following the Siege of Jerusalem in 63 BCE, the Hasmonean kingdom became a protectorate of Rome, and in 6 CE was organized as the Roman province of Judea. The Jews revolted against the Roman Empire in 66 CE during the period known as the First Jewish–Roman War which culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE. During the siege, the Romans destroyed the Second Temple and most of Jerusalem. This event marked the beginning of the Roman exile, also called Edom exile. Jewish leaders and elite were exiled, killed or sold into slavery.

In 132 CE, the Jews under Bar Kokhba rebelled against Hadrian. In 135 CE, Hadrian's army defeated the Jewish armies and Jewish independence was lost. As punishment Hadrian changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, turned it into a pagan city and banned the Jews from living there. Judea and Samaria was renamed by Hadrian to Syria Palaestina." (Wiki)

Most Christians today follow St. Paul's teachings. He was a Gnostic.

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.' He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit."

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" (Colossians 1:25-28)

Edited February 11, 2016 by Ehrman Pagels 1

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

Dredimus In Matthew 5 : 17 Jesus said that he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it.

"Fulfill" also means "to bring to an end; finish or complete." It becomes a matter of choice. We can choose to follow the old way, or follow the new. Edited February 11, 2016 by Ehrman Pagels 1

[ellapenella]

One of the reasons is that "throughout much of Jewish history, most Jews lived in the Diaspora."

"Following the Siege of Jerusalem in 63 BCE, the Hasmonean kingdom became a protectorate of Rome, and in 6 CE was organized as the Roman province of Judea. The Jews revolted against the Roman Empire in 66 CE during the period known as the First Jewish–Roman War which culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE. During the siege, the Romans destroyed the Second Temple and most of Jerusalem. This event marked the beginning of the Roman exile, also called Edom exile. Jewish leaders and elite were exiled, killed or sold into slavery.

In 132 CE, the Jews under Bar Kokhba rebelled against Hadrian. In 135 CE, Hadrian's army defeated the Jewish armies and Jewish independence was lost. As punishment Hadrian changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, turned it into a pagan city and banned the Jews from living there. Judea and Samaria was renamed by Hadrian to Syria Palaestina." (Wiki)

Most Christians today follow St. Paul's teachings. He was a Gnostic.

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.' He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit."

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" (Colossians 1:25-28)

But the word Gnostic means knowledge. Paul was a christian. And I think if I remember correctly it was Paul who was able to get through to James, the brother of Jesus and Peter regarding the matter of the law...right?

[ellapenella]

"Fulfill" also means "to bring to an end; finish or complete." It becomes a matter of choice. We can choose to follow the old way, or follow the new.

yes, and he said it is finished. And because of that I could not accept anyone other that has come after out Lord.

[SHaYap]

All this is gettng to be somewhat too reminiscent of the Sunday Bible Class back in my old youthful days ... time for an intermission ~

~

~

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

And I think if I remember correctly it was Paul who was able to get through to James, the brother of Jesus and Peter regarding the matter of the law...right?

Yes. Keep in mind, however, that Christ also said, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Therefore, one's faith is not a passive situation.

Christ also said that there is way for a person to know his or her spiritual state: "The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!" There are passages in the Gospel of Thomas that have similar tone: "What you have within you will save you, if you give birth to it...; whoever is near me is near the 'fire,' and he, who is far from me, is also far from the Kingdom."

But the word Gnostic means knowledge. Paul was a christian.

When it comes to Paul, it boils down to interpretation (I have my personal, not just text-based, interpretation of Christian Gnosticism), and certain writings of Paul are considered pseudepigraphical, or forgeries -- to cut a VERY long story short.

[Dredimus]

"Fulfill" also means "to bring to an end; finish or complete." It becomes a matter of choice. We can choose to follow the old way, or follow the new.

Thank You... I don't think I was making this clear with my verbiage... I was just sitting here contemplating a way to express it... its simplest form works quite well lol.

[ellapenella]

Yes. Keep in mind, however, that Christ also said, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Therefore, one's faith is not a passive situation.

Christ also said that there is way for a person to know his or her spiritual state: "The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!" There are passages in the Gospel of Thomas that have similar tone: "What you have within you will save you, if you give birth to it...; whoever is near me is near the 'fire,' and he, who is far from me, is also far from the Kingdom."

This is from my bible. I forget what it's called but it's at the bottom of my pages where it helps explain things to me.

Jesus exposed those people who sounded religious but had no personal relationship with him. At "that day"(The Day of Judgement) only our relationship with Christ--our acceptance of him as Savior and our obedience to him--will matter.Many people think that if they are "good" and sound religious,that they will be rewarded with eternal life. In reality faith in Christ is what will count at the judgement."That day" is the final day of reckoning when God will settle all accounts,judging sin and rewarding faith.

Spiritual vision is our capacity to see clearly want God wants us to do and to see the world from his point of view. But this spiritual insight can be easily clouded. Self serving desires,interest and goals block that vision. Serving God is the best way to restore it. A "single" eye is one that is fixed on God.

[ellapenella]

When it comes to Paul, it boils down to interpretation (I have my personal, not just text-based, interpretation of Christian Gnosticism), and certain writings of Paul are considered pseudepigraphical, or forgeries -- to cut a VERY long story short.

You know what I think about Paul.. I think that it's clear to say that he didn't receive his teachings from Jesus in the flesh--and Peter had a difficult time in understanding Paul's message. But Jesus spoke about the comforter,the Holy Spirit -- I think that the Holy Spirit revealed to Paul the things that were revealed to him and I believe that Jesus selected the 12 disciples to reach the Jews and that they didn't need to really understand the message of Paul at that time. I think that Paul was selected by Jesus through the comforter to reach the gentiles is what i think.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

This is from my bible. I forget what it's called but it's at the bottom of my pages where it helps explain things to me.

Jesus exposed those people who sounded religious but had no personal relationship with him. At "that day"(The Day of Judgement) only our relationship with Christ--our acceptance of him as Savior and our obedience to him--will matter.Many people think that if they are "good" and sound religious,that they will be rewarded with eternal life. In reality faith in Christ is what will count at the judgement."That day" is the final day of reckoning when God will settle all accounts,judging sin and rewarding faith.

Spiritual vision is our capacity to see clearly want God wants us to do and to see the world from his point of view. But this spiritual insight can be easily clouded. Self serving desires,interest and goals block that vision. Serving God is the best way to restore it. A "single" eye is one that is fixed on God.

You know what I think about Paul.. I think that it's clear to say that he didn't receive his teachings from Jesus in the flesh--and Peter had a difficult time in understanding Paul's message. But Jesus spoke about the comforter,the Holy Spirit -- I think that the Holy Spirit revealed to Paul the things that were revealed to him and I believe that Jesus selected the 12 disciples to reach the Jews and that they didn't need to really understand the message of Paul at that time. I think that Paul was selected by Jesus through the comforter to reach the gentiles is what i think.

Your bible sounds like the Judeo-Christian side of Christianity. On the other hand, Christian Gnostics and Christian mystics aspire to what the saints of old had experienced -- to directly experience Christ. This connection will be a spiritual experience, as in of the spirit, not of mind or thinking about it (like doing a math problem, for example). It will be an out-of-this-material-realm situation. After all, Christ said, "...lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world," and "...no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Many early Christians believed in "universal salvation," or "universal reconciliation." I, on the other hand, know that Christ is all about love; so in my faith, the threat of eternal damnation is merely that -- a threat. As human beings, we, however, don't know everything. One example is the nature of reincarnation. Plus, I'm the wrong person to ask to vote against the reality of resurrection. I take in the totally of Christianity, not just one faction, and edit out the ones I find that do not ring true to my experience. Ultimately, the Canonical Gospels were not personally written by the named authors.

Your take on Paul is just as valid. So yes, many early Christians did not endorse the stern attachment to Biblical literalism.

[ellapenella]

Your bible sounds like the Judeo-Christian side of Christianity. On the other hand, Christian Gnostics and Christian mystics aspire to what the saints of old had experienced -- to directly experience Christ. This connection will be a spiritual experience, as in of the spirit, not of mind or thinking about it (like doing a math problem, for example). It will be an out-of-this-material-realm situation. After all, Christ said, "...lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world," and "...no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Many early Christians believed in "universal salvation," or "universal reconciliation." I, on the other hand, know that Christ is all about love; so in my faith, the threat of eternal damnation is merely that -- a threat. As human beings, we, however, don't know everything. One example is the nature of reincarnation. Plus, I'm the wrong person to ask to vote against the reality of resurrection. I take in the totally of Christianity, not just one faction, and edit out the ones I find that do not ring true to my experience. Ultimately, the Canonical Gospels were not personally written by the named authors.

Your take on Paul is just as valid. So yes, many early Christians did not endorse the stern attachment to Biblical literalism.

That bible was a present from a relative an in-law of mine,she's one of the best people I have ever had the privilege to meet,she's also suffering with lupus and I can't visit her as I would like to because she has no immunity at all. It's a king James with the scholars help on the bottom of the pages. I think she got it for me because I may have asked her too many questions at one time-- before she became sick of course.

I also have a collection of the Gnostic books--I read where you mentioned Thomas--I have his gospel I should read it.I purchased a copy of it online when the church said that they didn't want for people to read it. I have a difficult time in understanding everything because like you said we don't know everything.

I seem to have moments like where I have doubts and questions about the immaculate conception. And when I consider how insane the middle is in my perspective regarding religion my mind begins to question everything. But I do have faith in Jesus--and I do know for certain that there is a Holy Spirit as spoken of from Jesus.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Ellapennella

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

I seem to have moments like where I have doubts and questions about the immaculate conception. And when I consider how insane the middle is in my perspective regarding religion my mind begins to question everything. But I do have faith in Jesus--and I do know for certain that there is a Holy Spirit as spoken of from Jesus.

The story of the immaculate conception is a controversial one because other religions claim the same story. To me, the important elements are being there for me in the afterlife, love, compassion, forgiveness, and resurrection. Christ has proven Himself to me with great success -- unexpectedly, to top it off. Personally, I think it is the same "divine" being who keeps incarnating because the teachings are uncannily similar. On the other hand, some say that St. Paul took many of the pagan stories and incorporated them to gather more followers. After all, he was the one who said:

"Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."

[ellapenella]

The story of the immaculate conception is a controversial one because other religions claim the same story. To me, the important elements are being there for me in the afterlife, love, compassion, forgiveness, and resurrection. Christ has proven Himself to me with great success -- unexpectedly, to top it off. Personally, I think it is the same "divine" being who keeps incarnating because the teachings are uncannily similar. On the other hand, some say that St. Paul took many of the pagan stories and incorporated them to gather more followers. After all, he was the one who said:

"Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."

Your bible reads different from mine.But you're reading from 1st. Corinthians. scholars explain this in my bible as this--Paul asserted that he had freedom to do anything--he emphasized a life of strict discipline. The goal of Paul's life was to glorify God and bring people to Christ.Thus he stayed free of any philosophical position or material entanglement that could sidetrack him,while he strictly disciplined himself to carry out his goal. For Paul both freedom and discipline were strict tools to be used in God's service.

Paul gave several important principles for ministry--

1) find common ground with those you contact.

2) avoid a know it all attitude

3) make others feel accepted

4)be sensitive to the needs and concerns:and

5)look for opportunities to tell them about Christ.

These principles are just as important for us as they were for Paul.

ETA- You know what came to my mind when i was reading that?do you remember what Paul did for a living ? he made and mended tents. I remember reading somewhere in the bible about him whereas he would not even touch any funds to build the church to feed himself. He worked to feed himself.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Ellapennella

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

I gave you that point to show you how others view or interpret the "Paul's Use of His Freedom," or "Paul a Servant to All (King James version)" section of 1 Corinthians 9, and why certain Christian sects have the Immaculate Conception as part of their belief system. It's one theory, nothing more, nothing less. I used the New International Version because the language is more current than the archaic King James version.

Your take is the orthodox/literalist position.

Edit: Everything in the NT is debatable, at any rate.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Ehrman Pagels 1

[Mr Walker]

My understanding is that, in Christianity, the laws of god are universal truths. BUT jesus told us they were made FOR man, not that we were made to fit the laws, and to have to obey them..

He also said that the reason to obey laws was from love of their creator, and a desire to do his will, not from righteousness, legalism, or fear. Thus, he explained that laws could be bent to serve a greater purpose. One can eat unhealthy/unclean food, rather than give offence to the person who provides it, and thus potentially be a bad example of a Christian to a non Christian. One can work on the Sabbath, where that work helps your fellow man, such as in healing. or caring for the sick.

[ellapenella]

My understanding is that, in Christianity, the laws of god are universal truths. BUT jesus told us they were made FOR man, not that we were made to fit the laws, and to have to obey them..

He also said that the reason to obey laws was from love of their creator, and a desire to do his will, not from righteousness, legalism, or fear. Thus, he explained that laws could be bent to serve a greater purpose. One can eat unhealthy/unclean food, rather than give offence to the person who provides it, and thus potentially be a bad example of a Christian to a non Christian. One can work on the Sabbath, where that work helps your fellow man, such as in healing. or caring for the sick.

You surprised me Mr. Walker . And you also reminded me that we can never keep ourselves truly to the laws of God. You've also reminded me that the greatest of all is love.

ETA- typo

Edited February 13, 2016 by Ellapennella

[Mr Walker]

You surprised me Mr. Walker . And you also reminded me that we can never keep ourselves truly to the laws of God. You've also reminded me that the greatest of all is love.

ETA- typo

I am not certain why i should surprise you. I actually live ( as far as i can manage to do so) by gods' laws, because I realise they were made to benefit me and humanity, but i live them out of love, putting man before the letter of the law, and because I love and respect the god who protects, teaches, mentors and guides me.

I also love and respect my self, and i love and respect my fellow man. I love and respect the earth. All these things (god /self/ other humans, and nature) are integrated into (and by) the nature and presence of god in all things.

This allows me to live in harmony with all.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Mr Walker

[hellig heilige]

Ehrman Pagels 1, on 12 February 2016 - 01:10 AM, said: Yes. Keep in mind, however, that Christ also said, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Therefore, one's faith is not a passive situation.

Christ also said that there is way for a person to know his or her spiritual state: "The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!" There are passages in the Gospel of Thomas that have similar tone: "What you have within you will save you, if you give birth to it...; whoever is near me is near the 'fire,' and he, who is far from me, is also far from the Kingdom."

=========================================================================

This is from my bible. I forget what it's called but it's at the bottom of my pages where it helps explain things to me.

Jesus exposed those people who sounded religious but had no personal relationship with him. At "that day"(The Day of Judgement) only our relationship with Christ--our acceptance of him as Savior and our obedience to him--will matter.Many people think that if they are "good" and sound religious,that they will be rewarded with eternal life. In reality faith in Christ is what will count at the judgement."That day" is the final day of reckoning when God will settle all accounts,judging sin and rewarding faith.

Spiritual vision is our capacity to see clearly want God wants us to do and to see the world from his point of view. But this spiritual insight can be easily clouded. Self serving desires,interest and goals block that vision. Serving God is the best way to restore it. A "single" eye is one that is fixed on God.

I think Ehrman is being polite. The passage in the bible is not saying to see the outside world but to see your light. Saints saw this light. Everyone has the capacity to see the light. When you see your light you are in good standing with god. Its a higher degree than faith . Fundamentalists think they are saved by saying We believe in you LORD but Ehrman's passages tell us we have to do more than babble. How can you have a single eye on god when you cant see your light???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Edited February 14, 2016 by hellig heilige