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U.S. court blocks Canadian cattle


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#31    Conspiracy

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 07:24 PM

whats new? damn america had it blocked for the past 2 years or so

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#32    Shaftsbury

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 07:35 PM

Yes I'm afraid it isn't really a case of anything moving forward, just some details that I was hinting at are finally starting to surface. wink2.gif

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#33    Mekorig

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 02:31 AM

QUOTE(Deception @ Mar 5 2005, 04:29 AM)

Well Ameica can always look to the south american countries for raw material. And how long do you think the Canadian economy would far without selling the americans materials?

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And what happens if that "south american" countries dont sell the USa that raw materials? In this moment, whit the slugish economy of the USa, its more redituable to sell it to Europe or China.

Im an evil pinko UN slave liberal commie

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#34    _Nyx_

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 02:35 AM

Being married to a farmer, I can appreciate this. Farming in the US isn't nearly as lucrative as it once was. Importing beef and milk when so many farmers bust their asses every day seems ludicrous to me. But, I will not go off on my usual tangent. I'll get a headache and make enemies.  original.gif


#35    Babs

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 07:07 PM

QUOTE(jeceris @ Mar 3 2005, 08:53 PM)
if i was the americans i would keep the border shut to our beef too.
i know it sucks for all the beef farmers in canada because one farmer in alberta got a bad lot of feed, but so be it.
it's the timing i.m not sure about.
bush comes up here, has his little visit, tries to push the missle defense project down our throat, we hummed and hawed about it a bit, and then said a definate no.
within a week of this rice says she's not coming, and the border, which was set to open next monday to beef, is suddenly shut. this agreement had been in place for months.
we say no to missles and the americans suddenly shut the border.
this all seems like some sort of political game to me, and the farmers are now the ones suffering.

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I remember you Canadians saying you didn't want Rice up there and Canada doesn't want the U.S.'s goods etc. etc. ....and you don't care about the States or what the U.S. wants or needs as long as the US protects Canada against terror or destruction. And now lookie here.  happy.gif  cool.gif

"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation"

Henry David Thoreau...

#36    Babs

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 07:18 PM

QUOTE(Conspiracy @ Apr 12 2005, 01:24 PM)
whats new? damn america had it blocked for the past 2 years or so

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Foul language is against the rules.

Edited by Babs, 13 April 2005 - 07:20 PM.

"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation"

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#37    Shaftsbury

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 02:11 PM

QUOTE(LilaBurrows)
  Being married to a farmer, I can appreciate this. Farming in the US isn't nearly as lucrative as it once was. Importing beef and milk when so many farmers bust their asses every day seems ludicrous to me. But, I will not go off on my usual tangent. I'll get a headache and make enemies. 


I've lived around farming communities for most of my life and as far as I am concerned most of them are good hard working honest people, I don't think it matters which side of the border you are on.  thumbsup.gif

But this issue seems less about farming and more about bad science, politics, and big $$$. The world economy revolves around trade, and when you start using your political might to disrupt it things get ugly real fast.

I don't think you can use the argument about not importing goods into your country just because you produce enough of them yourselves, after all you wouldn't want the Japanese to stop buying your cars from you?



QUOTE(Babs)
remember you Canadians saying you didn't want Rice up there and Canada doesn't want the U.S.'s goods etc. etc. ....and you don't care about the States or what the U.S. wants or needs as long as the US protects Canada against terror or destruction. And now lookie here.
  

I really had to strain to figure out what you were trying to say here and how it relates to the topic at hand. But if are trying to back up my point about this being a purely political issue, thanks for that  thumbsup.gif


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#38    twpdyp

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 02:27 PM

Canada can eat it's own cows and America will do the same problem solved. Why should we be obligated to buy Canadian beef? Cattle all over the USA, I don't think we are having a cow shortage are we?

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#39    Shaftsbury

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 02:41 PM

QUOTE(twpdyp @ Apr 14 2005, 02:27 PM)
Canada can eat it's own cows and America will do the same problem solved. Why should we be obligated to buy Canadian beef? Cattle all over the USA, I don't think we are having a cow shortage are we?

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Man you must not have read what I just said about the world economy, sure you can stop buying our beef, then we will stop importing most of your products, and oh by the way that oil, natural gas, water, and electricity that you get from us.............

I'm sorry but your post doesn't solve any problems it just causes more.  tongue.gif

Edited by Shaftsbury, 14 April 2005 - 02:42 PM.

"He hath need of his wits who wanders wide,
aught simple will serve at home;
but a gazing-stock is the fool who sits
mid the wise, and nothing knows."

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The Isles of Aledeon - Roleplay World

#40    Thanato

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 02:59 PM

I agree with Shaftsbury shut off all exports of Natural Resources and see how long they last.

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Edited by Thanato, 14 April 2005 - 03:00 PM.

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#41    Celumnaz

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 03:18 PM

I agree too!!


#42    twpdyp

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 03:29 PM

QUOTE
Man you must not have read what I just said about the world economy, sure you can stop buying our beef, then we will stop importing most of your products, and oh by the way that oil, natural gas, water, and electricity that you get from us.............

So what you are saying is even if we do not need your beef we should buy it anyway because we also buy oil, natural gas, water, and electricity. Using this logic one can assume you would buy unneeded items from Walmart because you also buy needed items from them. I am not understanding you logic. If we stop buying your beef for what ever reason, including we don't need it, then you stop buying our products as well. This makes absolutely no sense at all. If I need 1 gallon of milk from the store I don't buy 2 gallons. The store owner does not get mad and refuse to sell me any other items he has on his shelves because I don't need or want 2 gallons. If I go into a store and find it dirty and nasty I will buy my goods else where or not at all. If the American courts find Canadian beef unacceptable then it is like the dirty nasty store we will buy beef else where or not at all.

As we go through this life reaching, striving, and straining for life's brass ring, has any of us ever stopped to wonder just who is running the Merry-Go-Round?
You must play the hand that life deals you, if you dealt the hand to yourself you must play that hand silently .

#43    Shaftsbury

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 03:52 PM

QUOTE(twpdyp @ Apr 14 2005, 03:29 PM)
QUOTE
Man you must not have read what I just said about the world economy, sure you can stop buying our beef, then we will stop importing most of your products, and oh by the way that oil, natural gas, water, and electricity that you get from us.............

So what you are saying is even if we do not need your beef we should buy it anyway because we also buy oil, natural gas, water, and electricity. Using this logic one can assume you would buy unneeded items from Walmart because you also buy needed items from them. I am not understanding you logic. If we stop buying your beef for what ever reason, including we don't need it, then you stop buying our products as well. This makes absolutely no sense at all. If I need 1 gallon of milk from the store I don't buy 2 gallons. The store owner does not get mad and refuse to sell me any other items he has on his shelves because I don't need or want 2 gallons. If I go into a store and find it dirty and nasty I will buy my goods else where or not at all. If the American courts find Canadian beef unacceptable then it is like the dirty nasty store we will buy beef else where or not at all.

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No you actually haven't understood what I have been trying to say all along, read my previous posts on this subject.

Let me put it to you in point form:

1) Canada and the US are bound by international law to regulate how to test for BSE and to declare all cases of it. The regulations are very strict and detail how to test the samples and where the samples should be taken from.

There is growing evidence that there is a coverup of sorts going on involving the US department in charge of BSE testing. Undercover operations, and statements from former employees indicate that cases of BSE have been discovered in US cattle, contrary to current statements made by your federal government.

In short, the argument that US beef is somehow "safer" than Canadian beef is bogus.

2) "In January 1994, Canada, the United States and Mexico launched the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and formed the world's largest free trade area."

QUOTE
Article 301: National Treatment

1. Each Party shall accord national treatment to the goods of another Party in accordance with Article III of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), including its interpretative notes, and to this end Article III of the GATT and its interpretative notes, or any equivalent provision of a successor agreement to which all Parties are party, are incorporated into and made part of this Agreement.

2. The provisions of paragraph 1 regarding national treatment shall mean, with respect to a state or province, treatment no less favorable than the most favorable treatment accorded by such state or province to any like, directly competitive or substitutable goods, as the case may be, of the Party of which it forms a part.


I'm not a lawyer, but to me that second paragraph tells me that by law, you can't refuse to import a product just because there is a competitive product already in the market.

NAFTA


So when you tell me that americans should simply stop eating Canadian beef, you are missing the point entirely, the point is that if Canadians can export a product to the US and make a profit on it, they have every right to.

"He hath need of his wits who wanders wide,
aught simple will serve at home;
but a gazing-stock is the fool who sits
mid the wise, and nothing knows."

from the Elder or Poetic Edda

The Isles of Aledeon - Roleplay World

#44    twpdyp

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 04:11 PM

Absolutely correct Canadian beef  growers have every right to export their beef to the United States.This is according to NAFTA.  American consumers have every right not to purchase Canadian beef. This is according to our Constitution. The North American Free Trade Agreement is also a misnomer. Free trade does not exist. Example being a few years ago I was involved in the tomato growing industry in south Florida prior to NAFTA. It was a highly profitable business that paid very well. After NAFTA we could not compete with Mexican growers because they were allowed to use fertilizers, chemicals and pesticides that were banned in the USA. A point that was not highly publicized. American consumers were never warned that Mexican tomatos had among other banned chemicals DDT used in their growth. It would be like having 2 sets of rules. Team 1 gets 4 strikes before they are out and team 2 gets only 3 strikes before being called out, get my point? There are other examples but that is the one that effected me most. I am all for fair trade, if that can be accomplished. I also retain my position that former President William Jefferson Clinton should never have signed NAFTA into law. NAFTA has brought about more economical hardship and job losses than can be counted. NAFTA should be repealed but that is a topic for another thread.

Edited by twpdyp, 14 April 2005 - 04:23 PM.

As we go through this life reaching, striving, and straining for life's brass ring, has any of us ever stopped to wonder just who is running the Merry-Go-Round?
You must play the hand that life deals you, if you dealt the hand to yourself you must play that hand silently .

#45    Shaftsbury

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 04:22 PM

I actually agree with you on that one, the politicians beat us over the head with that agreement until everyone signed it.

Here's an interesting little read, this court battle is nothing new to the beef industry as it says, I just wish everyone could be above board on these things for a change  hmm.gif

U.S. - Canadian Agricultural Trade Conflicts:

"He hath need of his wits who wanders wide,
aught simple will serve at home;
but a gazing-stock is the fool who sits
mid the wise, and nothing knows."

from the Elder or Poetic Edda

The Isles of Aledeon - Roleplay World




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