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Does Karma Exist?


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#1    Lottie

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 08:59 PM

Debate suggestion by moi...

Karma, does it really exist? Is there a divine source that keeps our 'mistakes' stored away ready to bite us on the butt?
Or is it pure coincidence, a guilt trip or maybe a subconscious response to what we have done that comes back to haunt us making it seem that our run of bad luck is infact Karma?

Looking for 2 participants to take part.

Edited by Lottie, 24 May 2005 - 10:25 AM.


#2    about

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 06:38 AM

Can I debate AGAINST karma?


#3    Yona

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 03:39 PM

I will debate For the existence of karma.

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#4    Lottie

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 12:30 PM

Okay!! Thanks both of you for getting involved.

Galor will be debating against Karma.
Yona will be debating For Karma.

The debate will consist of an introduction, 5 bodily posts showing countering of the opponent, good style, persuasive arguments and information relevant to the topic, and a conclusion. Remember to quote your sources, no flaming or offensive langauage. e.

Also please try try to keep to the time limits of the rules which are 7 days per post. If for any reason this is not possible during the course of the debate please let myself or disinterested know.

Any questions, we are just a PM away.

Oh yes and good luck!
thumbsup.gif


#5    about

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 10:09 PM

Sorry for the long wait, got mixed up  wacko.gif

Introduction

Karma, to put it simply, is the justification force. By justification force I mean the force that rewards you if you're good, and punishes you if you're bad. Pfft... Karma  wink2.gif It isn't real. Boy, the world would be a much better place though if it was. But, unfortunately, it isn't. How am I so sure that there's no such thing as karma? No proof. No examples of it. No nuthin'. Anything that is said to happen because of 'Karma' can be very easily dismissed as coincidence. To summarise a long introduction to a short one, Karma isn't real, all chance, if Karma were real, the world wouldn't be in the state it is now.

Sorry that my intro is so...cr@p! But I can't really think of anything to start the debate off with, and anyways, isn't the pro debater supposed to start  blink.gif




#6    Yona

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 03:08 PM

Lol pro debator?That I am not, but here goes my intro.

Introduction

Karma is a force in which you do something bad, something bad in turn happens to you. Kind of  balance, if you will. And karma doesn't allways have to be bad. Ever done something good, and later that day, or week, something really good happens to you? That is karma at work.As Galor stated, There is no definable proof to the existence of Karma, but no real proof against it.

There you go, my first intro ever, not the best, but I hope not the worst.

Edited by Yona, 18 April 2005 - 03:08 PM.

I am a proud Purple Midget Samurai
Andya Wakka Dowda roada in khandahar.
Defender of squirrels
I like pie.

Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun
Ahoy-hoy!

#7    about

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:38 PM

Hopefully this'll eb better than my intro  tongue.gif

Body Post I

QUOTE
Karma is a force in which you do something bad, something bad in turn happens to you. Kind of balance, if you will. And karma doesn't allways have to be bad. Ever done something good, and later that day, or week, something really good happens to you? That is karma at work.As Galor stated, There is no definable proof to the existence of Karma, but no real proof against it.


To the stuff in bold, exactly. There is no solid proof to Karma. It's a bit like religion, in a way. In fact, Karma originated from an ancient Indian religion, Hinduism, in which Karma was intricately linked with Reincarnation, but that's another story. Anyways, like I said, karma is like religion, millions of people believe in it, but there isn't any real proof. And about the fact that there's no real proof againt it, well...of course there isn't. You can't have real proof against things like Karma. Is there real proof against religion? An afterlife? Rebirth?



#8    Yona

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 04:06 PM

Ok, here goes nothing...

Body Post


Karma refers literaly to the totality of our actions and the reactions therein.Karma lies in inteligent action, and dispassionate reaction..I.e you think about your action before you do it, or you do something without feeling, with out thought of the consequences.

Karma can be found in certain verses of the bible, which state
"God is not mocked, what a man sows he must reap".

QUOTE
There is no solid proof to Karma. It's a bit like religion, in a way.


Agreed, karma isin't as explainable as say, the laws of gravity, millions of people believe it and it is a intergral part of many cultures.Spirituality or a belief in virtue is rewarded and sin creates suffering evuntually leads to a belief in karmic law.

Many people believe that karma is just an explainable action that is a production of your mind, making you feel guilt for what you have done. But can you really attribute conscience to having something bad happen to you. and usually doesn't something bad happen right after malicious intent?




I am a proud Purple Midget Samurai
Andya Wakka Dowda roada in khandahar.
Defender of squirrels
I like pie.

Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun
Ahoy-hoy!

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 04:43 PM

Well, here goes. Again, sorry it took so long. Now that I don't have as much homework, I should be much quicker, replying within 24 hours usually cool.gif

Body Post II

QUOTE
Karma refers literaly to the totality of our actions and the reactions therein.Karma lies in inteligent action, and dispassionate reaction..I.e you think about your action before you do it, or you do something without feeling, with out thought of the consequences.


Yes, but is this fact or just mere coincidence? What evidence is there to support the existence of Karma? Or, like an afterlife and religion, is it just what people want to believe?

QUOTE
Karma can be found in certain verses of the bible, which state
"God is not mocked, what a man sows he must reap".


Yeah, I guess that can be referred to as karma. But still, it doesn't prove anything.

QUOTE
Agreed, karma isin't as explainable as say, the laws of gravity, millions of people believe it and it is a intergral part of many cultures.Spirituality or a belief in virtue is rewarded and sin creates suffering evuntually leads to a belief in karmic law.

Many people believe that karma is just an explainable action that is a production of your mind, making you feel guilt for what you have done. But can you really attribute conscience to having something bad happen to you. and usually doesn't something bad happen right after malicious intent?


Yes, thats true, bad things do happen right after malicious intent. But not all the time. If it were like that all the time, Earth would be a Utopia. Pretty much, what I am trying to say is that most of this stuff is pure coincidence. If karma existed, the world would be a very different place.






#10    Yona

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 04:29 PM

Body post 2..sorry all!

No, you are misunderstanding the nature of karma! there does not have to be a utopia, what about negative karma?

Karma, it's like our sight, if we did not have it, how would we know its gone?

Granted, if there was no bad karma, the world would be a better place, but, there is usually a balance of the two.

Karma is all around us, in hidden, and not so hidden places.

Good luck! original.gif

Hey??? What happened to my quotes?? This looks dorky.... HELP!

Edited by Yona, 05 May 2005 - 04:29 PM.

I am a proud Purple Midget Samurai
Andya Wakka Dowda roada in khandahar.
Defender of squirrels
I like pie.

Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun
Ahoy-hoy!

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 04:37 PM

Body Post III

What proof do you have that karma exists? How do you know that its real, and not just coincidence?

Sorry, I know thats stupidly short for a body post, but theres nothing woth quoting.

Yona, in your next post, please explain to me what proof you have that karma exists? And sorry if I got the nature of it wrong.

Edited by Disinterested, 06 May 2005 - 05:27 PM.


#12    Yona

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 06:29 PM

QUOTE
What proof do you have that karma exists? How do you know that its real, and not just coincidence?


How do you know that air isin't real? how do you know that there is gravity?It's all there, we just can't see it. If you cannot see something, how do you know it doesn't exist? Just because there is no Identity to karma, It's there, thats what I've been trying to prove all along!


QUOTE
Yona, in your next post, please explain to me what proof you have that karma exists? And sorry if I got the nature of it wrong.


Proof, as stated before, evil people get theres, almost with out fail, and I believe those few that have nothing bad happen to them must have done something good to redeem themselvs.



I am a proud Purple Midget Samurai
Andya Wakka Dowda roada in khandahar.
Defender of squirrels
I like pie.

Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun
Ahoy-hoy!

#13    about

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 06:53 PM

Body Post IV

QUOTE
How do you know that air isin't real? how do you know that there is gravity?It's all there, we just can't see it. If you cannot see something, how do you know it doesn't exist? Just because there is no Identity to karma, It's there, thats what I've been trying to prove all along!


Uh...its effects. We can see the effects of air and gravity, and, if ~*Karma*~ exists, we would see its effects, which is randomly dealign justice cool.gif What I'm trying to say is, this is probably coincidence, what proof is there to support that it isn't just pure chance and coincidence but a force like gravity?

QUOTE
Proof, as stated before, evil people get theres, almost with out fail, and I believe those few that have nothing bad happen to them must have done something good to redeem themselvs.


I don't really understand that, but I think what your trying to say is that people who have good luck are good? eg Kind? Caring? Giving? Theres nobody in the world who has 'nothing' bad happen to them, but still, I don't understand

~emphasis~What proof is there of karma?~emphasis~

Btw, you're doing great, detailed explanations and stuff making it interesting  thumbsup.gif the one thing you lack is giving evidence to support your theory eg in this debate l'existence of karma.




#14    Yona

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 03:47 PM

Ok.. sorry I was gone for so long. Finals in school.

BODY POST IV

QUOTE
Uh...its effects. We can see the effects of air and gravity, and, if ~*Karma*~ exists, we would see its effects, which is randomly dealign justice  What I'm trying to say is, this is probably coincidence, what proof is there to support that it isn't just pure chance and coincidence but a force like gravity?


Remember, It does not allways have to be justice! Mabye gravity is just coincidence... A few hundred years ago, you tell someone the earth is round you would have been lynched! It comes back to nature. It's like a come around effect of nature, mabye even the entity who created the universe, if there was one. Would't he/she/it want some sort of a non-biased judge to get those who did bad and help those who did good?







I am a proud Purple Midget Samurai
Andya Wakka Dowda roada in khandahar.
Defender of squirrels
I like pie.

Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun
Ahoy-hoy!

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 01:12 PM

Body Post V


QUOTE
Remember, It does not allways have to be justice! Mabye gravity is just coincidence


I doubt that gravity is just coincidence tongue.gif
QUOTE
A few hundred years ago, you tell someone the earth is round you would have been lynched! It comes back to nature. It's like a come around effect of nature, mabye even the entity who created the universe, if there was one. Would't he/she/it want some sort of a non-biased judge to get those who did bad and help those who did good?


I agree, if there is a 'God' or supreme being, they probably would want some sort of non biased judge who punished the bad and rewarded the good. Just what I'm trying to say is, there is no proof to the existence of this 'God'. There is no proof to the existence of gravity just being pure coincidence. There is no proof to the existence of karma. Its all just based on assumption and hope. You are trying to argue that karma exists, but it's very hard since there isn't any evidence to support its existence. Have you ever heard of something that migth hint at Karma being real?







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