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state's lethal injection method is legal....


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#1    schadeaux

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Posted 03 June 2003 - 06:05 PM

                                                  Tennessee's lethal injection procedure for executing condemned inmates is constitutional even though it uses a drug banned for euthanasia of animals, a Nashville judge ruled Monday. Attorneys for condemned killer Abu-Ali Abdur'Rahman, 52, who is scheduled to be put to death on June 18, had challenged the protocol used by the state Department of Correction, saying it could cause an inmate extreme pain. The procedure calls for three drugs to be administered in sequence: sodium thiopentathol or Pentothal to cause unconsciousness, Pavulon or pancuronium bromide to create paralysis and stop the breathing, and potassium chloride to stop the heart. Abdur'Rahman's attorneys contend Pentothal works so quickly that its effects can wear off before an inmate is given Pavulon and potassium chloride. If that were the case, the inmate would suffer horrible pain but be unable to show it to executioners.


user posted image View: Full Article | Source: WMC-TV5 Memphis                                                  

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#2    Starlyte

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 06:42 PM

When I started reading this article all I could think was 'what right does this man have to complain about his method of execution'.  Generally, if someone is to be excecuted I think that they probably deserve it.  So I did a search and found out about the guy and his life.  It is no wonder he ended up where he did, and his story is tragic to say the least.  Read his story HERE and see if you agree if his complaints are warranted.

The Earth has music for those who listen." - Shakespeare

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#3    Aslan

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 07:59 PM

Staying away from the contentious issue of judicial execution as a whole, and thinking about this individual case...

QUOTE
...it is argued that Abdur' Rahman received ineffective assistance of counsel. His trial attorney conducted no preparation before the trial and did not interview Abdur' Rahman for the first time until just 5 days before the beginning of the trial. This cursory interview was the first and only time the trial attorney consultated with Abdur' Rahman...the attorney interviewed no witnesses, neglected to look at any forensic evidence...his trial defense counsel called only two witnesses during the sentencing stage--Abdur' Rahman and his wife. Rahman had not sufficiently been prepared by his attorneys to testify and became distraught on the stand. The jurors, 11 of whom were Caucasian, never learned of Rahman's history of mental illness...The crime scene was covered in blood. However, there was no forensic evidence to indicate that Abdur' Rahman's clothing had been stained during the crime, as noted in his petition for clemency


Of course, I know next to nothing about this case, and couldn't say one way or another whether he did it or didn't, but it seems to me that if the state is going to apply the death penalty it should have a cast iron case for doing so - and I can't see that the state has a cast iron case here. There are just too many grey areas.

For the Brits, I would mention the cases of James Hanratty in the early sixties, and Bentley and Craig in the fifties of examples of what can happen when the case for death falls somewhat short of the mark.


EDIT: Thanks for the link, starlyte!


#4    Bizarro

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 09:25 PM

well, from living here and hearing about these cases often i will tell you why there is not a CAST IRON case against anyone on death row.  they all appeal and appeal ad nauseaum.  justice is hardly carried out swiftly at all because of all the appeals.  if you get on death row, it is years and years before you will be executed- if at all.  convicts use appeals to cast these doubts and hire all sorts of people (COUGH, LIBERALS) to portray them as saints or victims themselves.  sure, there are some innocent people who are convicted wrongly, but the vast majority of these appeals are done simply to prolong the life of the criminal at the family of the victim's expense.  these families have to take time to relive the tragedies over and over again just because a defense attorney will cry foul at any possible technicality he can get his paws on.  there is no closure for them.  

i didn't even read the article but i believe that justice should be swift and certain.  im sorry people live rough lives but that's no excuse for murder.  just kill him already.

if there was a meteor,
adrift amongst space,
set about on a collision course
not with Earth, but my face...
i wonder if id even know,
at what time i might,
be passed off like an old style
and by the meteor be smite?

- me, 1997

#5    Aslan

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 09:51 PM

I say again, without wanting to pick a fight with anyone and just engaging in hearty debate, I pray it is understood, my comment is this...

QUOTE
i didn't even read the article but i believe that justice should be swift and certain. im sorry people live rough lives but that's no excuse for murder. just kill him already.


I find this attitude quite astonishing. As far as I can understand your post, Bizarro, you are of the opinion that once a man is convicted of a crime in a court of law he is unequivocably and irrevocably guilty, and should be dispatched as quickly as possible, regardless of any other prevailing circumstances.

In which case...

QUOTE
sure, there are some innocent people who are convicted wrongly


...I can't conceive of how you can agree to the veracity of this and then suggest what you have previously suggested.

And why is 'Liberal' such a dirty word in America?


#6    Bizarro

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 11:29 PM

Aslan, i replied to you via IM.

i don't want to get into another big debate here.  this subject is one i hold very opinionated views on  original.gif  

if there was a meteor,
adrift amongst space,
set about on a collision course
not with Earth, but my face...
i wonder if id even know,
at what time i might,
be passed off like an old style
and by the meteor be smite?

- me, 1997

#7    Nancy

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 01:57 AM

QUOTE (Bizarro @ Jul 28 2003, 07:29 PM)
Aslan, i replied to you via IM.

i don't want to get into another big debate here.  this subject is one i hold very opinionated views on  original.gif

wacko.gif Here we go again........ Geezeeeeeee...
Someone starts a very interesting thread.... Members write their
views/opinions and then bammmmmmmmmm... A comment made that
drives certain OTHER Members, up the wall.

What is the purpose of having discussions, if NOT to 'debate' viewpoints and
'discuss' opinions?

Not to "but in" but good grief...... Aslan preferenced by stating simply
"I say again, without wanting to pick a fight with anyone and just engaging in hearty debate, I pray it is understood, my comment is this..."

In repsonse? A cryptic reply that points toward a personal dialogue and someone
takes their ball and goes home.

The Death Penalty is akin to all other Human actions that make one pause to
consider the Pros and Cons. I dare not mention others, for fear of someone
running away with their tail between their legs!  mad.gif  disgust.gif

This soapbox of mine is tottering..... Perhaps I should keep my fingers quiet, for a while.

Is it me? Or...... don't ya just wonder???
Nancy  huh.gif  

dying is easy ... tis the living that's hard...

#8    Bizarro

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 02:32 AM

laugh.gif @Nancy.   you don't wanna see what happens when i debate something like this...  trust me, im not running away, im just saving the board from another debacle  idea.gif

that being said, i am a shaky death penalty supporter.  i wasn't always one, but ive come around to it after much thought.  i think its gotten a little too pleasant though, since we gave up the electric chair here in Alabama.  i think it should be a painful experience- especially for the most violent characters.  

i find this stance clashes with a lot of my other beliefs on things- like being a vegetarian and believing in Jesus Christ.  i am also not a fan of utilitarian arguments in most instances, but in this one i am.  i feel violent criminals are a direct threat to our society and must be dealt with in an extreme manner.  its the only language they understand and it has a deterrent factor.  without the death penalty, murder will run rampant and jails will become like a summer camp with nasty characters that lasts until you die.  maybe i would be in favor of life in prison if it wasn't such a cakewalk.  i would like to see some severe labor that pushes those punks to the limit.... day after day after day.  i would also like to see them going hungry.  it makes no sense to me that we give criminals regular meals and access to weightlifting so they come out of prison as super buffed up bad guys.  they should come out looking like POWs.  prison should be hell.  if this was the case, i would not support the death penalty.

if there was a meteor,
adrift amongst space,
set about on a collision course
not with Earth, but my face...
i wonder if id even know,
at what time i might,
be passed off like an old style
and by the meteor be smite?

- me, 1997

#9    Nancy

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 03:03 AM

Bizarro..... Thank you for taking the time to respond.  

dying is easy ... tis the living that's hard...




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