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Limbo/Heaven and re-incarnation


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#16    Space Moose

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Posted 20 June 2003 - 04:51 AM

                                                      In response to Althus (unquoted for space reasons):

Well, if we are forced up and down by some criteria we are unaware of, how is it that there is not a large group of people at one end or the other?  All deeds would have to be (by some standard) either good or evil.  If we assume the practice of calling those things that benefit the species to which a soul belongs as good, then the lower levels should be emptying out much faster than the very high levels could return down.  The reverse would be true if they were evil.

If we reincarnate from all species regardless of location (thus including aliens and such) there still exists a fundamental problem of where were they all before and where will they all go after.  A definate start and end are likley at any level/plane/planet/universe/etc, so there must be someplace for these souls to have been and a place for them to go afterwards, or they are simply destoryed which makes them not much more special than any other creature.  

I can't fault believers in reincarnation for not having answers to this, no one does.  In the end, everyone must be able to say that they believe reincarnation is possible or it is not.  Based on my everyday observations that things live then die and nothing seems to change much, I would be forced to conculde that there is nothing that ties everything together.


New stuff:

Have you noticed that stories of past lives for people never seem to go beyond the common realm of western knowledge?  I have heard many stories of people who were told they were a prince or princess in some ancient culture (probably TOO many) or perhaps slaves that worked on some easily recgonizable monument.  I have yet to hear of anyone who was told they simply toiled away at some unfulfilling work in their 30 past lives.

Why is this?  I believe that people do not like being told that they are living essentially for naught.  In this regard, if you are likley to believe in reincarnation, you would be much more open to the thought that you were someone important because it would make you feel good.  From this please feel free to infer that I believe that people who "see into your past" do so only for monetary reasons and that what they tell you is in no way based on fact.                                                      


#17    Nancy

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Posted 20 June 2003 - 08:17 AM

                                                      
QUOTE (Space Moose @ Jun 20 2003, 12:51 AM)

If we reincarnate from all species regardless of location (thus including aliens and such) there still exists a fundamental problem of where were they all before and where will they all go after.  A definate start and end are likley at any level/plane/planet/universe/etc, so there must be someplace for these souls to have been and a place for them to go afterwards, or they are simply destoryed which makes them not much more special than any other creature.  

I can't fault believers in reincarnation for not having answers to this, no one does.  In the end, everyone must be able to say that they believe reincarnation is possible or it is not.  Based on my everyday observations that things live then die and nothing seems to change much, I would be forced to conculde that there is nothing that ties everything together.


New stuff:
Why is this?  I believe that people do not like being told that they are living essentially for naught.  In this regard, if you are likley to believe in reincarnation, you would be much more open to the thought that you were someone important because it would make you feel good.

Adding my two cents.
I don't believe in transmutation.

I feel humans reincarnate into humans but no one is FORCED to do so,
it is an individual choice. The cliche is still the same. No one else is
"just like me.. or you." Remaining on "The Other Side" would not detract
from 'gaining points' so to speak, as other Souls can teach from experience.

The goal of 'coming back' is to advance your scope of knowledge through
actual events, as they happen and to interact with the "living" around you.
Being open to reincarnation and doing so, always helps to erase some of the
nasty traits from your prior life and make up for past discretions.

Why then do some Souls come back and are "evil"? Basically, slow learners
with egos that require attention, not to mention that Humans are imperfect
to being with, and some have trouble "getting it."

"Souls" are energy that cannot be destroyed. Where they all were "before" and will go "after" is the same place. Another plane of existence
not Heaven or Hell....  which to many, based on religious teachings equal Good vs Evil.

There isn't a debate in my beliefs that souls are destroyed, making anyone/creature/critter "more special than any other." The distinction lies in
the level of evolution and the basic "food" chain. In other words, Humans
are more evolved mentally, physically, emotionally than the frog that sits in
a pond, or an eagle soaring overhead. Each species serves a purpose, the details of which, I cannot say.

If your everyday experiences prove to you that things just live and die, with
nothing really changing, just compare the past with now! Medical advances alone have altered life spans, as a quick example.

It seems to me that most opinions expressed on this subject so far have not
included emotions in the mix, just scientific speculation. Not a criticism, just an observation. Humans are not just made of chromosomes, but feelings, hopes
as well.

I've never had past life regression, don't intend to try. I'll muddle through this
lifetime hopefully doing the best I can and learn as much as my capabilities
permit.

Kismit? Your question about different types of Spirits? My feeling is that there
are several planes of existence, beyond this one. Different levels of growth, for
lack of a better word. Poltergiests, as an example.... are trapped between planes, the same for "Ghosts"..... They didn't get the message or their demise
was so unexpected/violent, they have difficulty finding their niche.

I do know, that I've already put in my "order" for the next go round. Long legs,
great mammary glands, thick hair and a sexy smile.


rolleyes.gif                                                      

dying is easy ... tis the living that's hard...

#18    Kismit

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Posted 20 June 2003 - 09:47 AM

                                                       laugh.gif
QUOTE
I do know, that I've already put in my "order" for the next go round. Long legs,
great mammary glands, thick hair and a sexy smile.
I hope you dont come back as a Man  blink.gif  That could be akward , with the Mammory glands and all .. wink.gif

Something I noticed while reading everyone's  posts is how quickly we equate good and evil with spiritual learning . How evil is evil ? Is  it the guy sitting in jail for stealing from old ladies is it the Murderers , the rapists is it the person in Highschool who picked on the little kids ?
  Spiritually speaking I don't think we come back to learn every life time . Infact I posulate that most spirits are here to teach .
    Could that highschool bully actually of shown one little  child how to stand up for them selves or how to believe more in themselves ?If so is the Bully good or evil ?.

QUOTE
I like Feists answer for this, he says that maybe we do this because the creator being learns through us, and what we do, and this way he learns things.
  I must read some of this man's books .   huh.gif
  As for the idea of re-incarnating as a tree then why not ? When I was younger ,I used to argue that even if you look at death in its most synical manner then you still have to believe in a form of re-incarnation .
At least in the form of composting down to create food for the worms and then worms for the birds and so on and so on and so on ...So why not tree's?
And as for the where do all the souls come from ? I would like to refer to the theory of cosmic conscience . perhaps the souls are pulled out of an etheral mass like little balls pulled  from a large lump of play-doh also known as the cosmic conscience .
And then how does this ball of doh work into the Limbo/Heaven/afterlife and ghosts and poltergiests then?  huh.gif
`Where do spirits go ? I cant believe that a small child who dies suddenly is doomed to become a poltergiest or trapped spirit form of some sort , and still be able to believe in a spiritual purpose at the same time . So I have to think that there are different levels for all spirits as they seem to comunicate from different places . Poltergiests with physical energy , replay ghosts with electromagnetic fields  and other spirit forms through mediums .                                                      


#19    Althalus

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Posted 20 June 2003 - 11:12 AM

                                                      Or, how about this, each soul is pulled from a creator being and is reincarnated as had been suggested, but how about after we finish beng reincarnated the souls go back into the single mass (as people would say, going back to God).

And in this way the spiritual creator learns from us.

Also I agree with nancy, no-one os forced to be reincarnated, and that is why mediums can get in touch with the departed souls of family members, it is the family members that who have chosen not to be reincarnated that they contact.

On the other hand, if they want to be reincarnated then they get the chance to go up or down the rungs, but this would mean that they apppear as someone else when they get back to wherever after they die again.                                                      

"We make choices everyday, some of them good, some of them bad. And - if we are strong enough - we live with the consequences."
David Gemmell




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