24 replies to this topic

[Me_Again]

Walken...
I'll admit, that was a mishap. But the message is clear - He is thanking the victims of the slave trade and making sure they know that they helped build America.

Mishaps that happen far to often, for me to fathom. How can his message be clear when it's twisted with improper grammar mishaps ? It is a President's responsibility to communicate with the public in an understandable way. I think we agreed earlier that President Bushs' speeches can be compared to the likes of Nixon's - "I am not a crook". I have shown President Bushs' poor communication skills and the fact that he changes his stance on issues...ahh sorry, what I meant to say was...This just doesn't fly when you are the President of the USA.
To quote a founding father...

Cherish, therefore, the spirit of our people, and keep alive their attention. Do not be too severe upon their errors, but reclaim them by enlightening them. If once they become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress, and Assemblies, Judges, and Governors, shall all become wolves.
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787

I hope that I've helped enlighten people, in regard, to the errors of President Bush, not only his perplexing speeches but also his fallacious political decisions.

Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness.
George Washington, Circular to the States, May 9, 1753

Walken...
The Miss. World approach, hmm? 'Stop World hunger, Stop global warming, Start a new peaceful world!'

Basically, there are two types of people - those who feel that war is OK and those who don't. Call it a Miss World approach if you will; However, you either think that global problems can be solved by war or you don't. Instead of saying, "Stop the war, stop world hunger, stop global warming" - should I say - "start war and global warming and keep people in poverty" ? Use a little common sense.

Walken...
I assure you, the world leaders are doing all they can to stop poverty and the recent events, such as the G8 summit, prove this. Meanwhile, the economey of the USA is booming, the best it has been in years - wheres the problem?

The problem lies in the erroneous beliefs that wars cause all of these wonderful ideals for our world. War helps the economy and the pursuit of freedom - NOT !
Booming economy ? Maybe booming for the oil companies, along with all the other war profitters.

U.S. Treasury Shows Actual 2004 Budget Deficit at $11.1 Trillion
Ultimate Crisis for Dollar Moves Beyond Possible Remedies
Hyperinflation and New Gold-Based Currency System Are Likely ConsequencesLink

Walken...
A very popular criticism of President Bush is his refusal to initiate or participate in any disarment process. But disarmment is, in the modern world, not thesible.

Disarmament? Is that what you meant to say? I've already established that the Weapons of Mass Destruction, we were to disarm Saddam Hussein of, were not found. So I suppose we should invade alot more countries to 'disarm' them ? Is the USA known to the world as a big bully ?...
"No, we won't disarm because you won't (nah, nah, nah, nah), but we will invade your country to disarm you". I don't see us invading Russia with that fallacious reasoning. Disarmament is suitable in the modern world. Peace and protecting the world and all of the inhabitants, rather than destroying the world, is the only suitable idea in my mind...

US Occupations in Iraq, Killings in Palestine
Is This Our Future?
Think Locally, Act Globally!
No Occupation! No Colonization!
No Blood for Oil! No Colonization of Iraq & Afghanistan!
No Immigrant Bashing! Health Care Not Warfare!
Books Not Bombs! Schools Not Tanks! Bring the Troops Back Home
Link

Walken...
A war started on the basis of flawed intelligence

You can say that again; Thus, proving my point that President Bush has made awful, flawed political decisions. Maybe it wasn't President Bushs' fault that the intelligence was flawed but it is his responsibility to correct it and inform the public of the flaws. I respect someone who can admit to their errors, rather than those who don't and claim to have made no mistakes.

Walken...
Carl W. Ford, Jr., Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence and Research, stated in his remarks before the Senate Select Committee of Intelligence on February 11, 2003 :
"Al-Qaida's presence in Iraq has grown since 9/11, including inside Baghdad. We know that Abu Mus'ab al-Zarqawi spent considerable time in Baghdad during 2002, and has a network of operatives in northern Iraq in an area under the control of Ansar al-Islam. This network has been working steadily to produce toxic substances which are ready for deployment, based on recent arrests in Europe. Zarqawi controls operations outside Iraq as well, as evidenced by the assassination of USAID representative to Jordan, Lawrence Foley, in which the perpetrators reported they were acting with support from Zarqawi. Though we do not know the specific operational details of Iraq's relationship with al-Qaida yet, we do know that neither Iraq nor al-Qaida would have any compunction about using WMD in terrorist attacks against civilians. Based on the weight of our current information, I believe that al-Qaida operatives inside Iraq have positioned themselves so that they could launch operations with little or no warning."

No one could deny the evil that moves Saddam Hussein’s actions. This is nothing new. His criminal record goes back more than 30 years. But it was evil also that allowed and promoted his rise to power. Seems like it was okay to look the other way meanwhile Saddam slaughtered the Kurds with arms of mass destruction. At that moment Iraq was at war with Iran and the Ayatollah Khomeini, the enemy of the U.S. Germany, France, the U.S.. , England and many Asian nations supplied Saddam with the necessary ingredients to build the weapons that are now the REASON for a possible war against the Iraqi regime.

Link

Fear is the foundation of most governments; but it is so sordid and brutal a passion, and renders men in whose breasts it predominates so stupid and miserable, that Americans will not be likely to approve of any political institution which is founded on it.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

This argument is getting stale. Al-Qaida this, terrorist that, raise the terror alert, take away civil liberties, we must rid the world of evil-doers. Do we really want high blood pressure caused by fear? We are spending trillions of dollars to protect ourselves, when we should be protecting our Mother Earth. We need sustainable resources and energy policies that help the EARTH. Protecting ourselves will mean nothing if Mother Earth gives in. Maybe you should hear it from someone in Iraq...

Lt. Col. Frederick P. Wellman, who works with the task force overseeing the training of Iraqi security troops, said the insurgency doesn't seem to be running out of new recruits, a dynamic fueled by tribal members seeking revenge for relatives killed in fighting.
"We can't kill them all," Wellman said. "When I kill one I create three."

Link

This war is solving nothing and that's what will be left - NOTHING.

Walken...
Dr. Condoleezza Rice, United States National Security Advisor, stated in remarks to the Commission on Terrorist Attacks on April 8, 2004 :
"Today, along with many allies, we are helping the people of Iraq and Afghanistan to build free societies. And we are working with the people of the Middle East to spread the blessings of liberty and democracy as the alternatives to instability, hatred, and terror. This work is hard and dangerous, yet it is worthy of our effort and our sacrifice. The defeat of terror and the success of freedom in those nations will serve the interests of our Nation and inspire hope and encourage reform throughout the greater Middle East."

If we are to believe that the occupation of Iraq is to achieve democracy – and not to secure control of Iraqi oil or to establish a military stronghold in the region – there is a clear and definitive solution to the quagmire that currently engulfs both the occupying forces and the Iraqi people in a rising tide of blood, frustration and despair.

Link

It took me a long time to find intelligent life on the web, there is intelligent life on earth. So, wake up from your bewildered, puzzled, perplexed state of mind...

Walken...
The Cost of War
War is tragic. Many thousands of people were killed in this war, and many more hurt.
But we must think of the thousands that will not die, and we must think of the millions that will not be hurt. We must considor the new freedom embraced by Iraq.

This is what we must consider...
101 ways to stop the war
Watch this
Impeach Bush

"I know but one freedom and that is the freedom of the mind."
Antoine De Saint-Exupery

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

You were right Walken, times change, opinions change, choices change. Change is based on choices. War=bad choice. Peace=good choice   

[Disinterested]

Walken has been granted an extra couple days to post.

[Walken]

President Bush

Defender of Freedom.

"Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward. And make no mistake - Freedom will be defended."
-President George W. Bush, September 11

Liberator of the oppressed

"These people have never known freedom and never known democracy, and we have bought then both."
-President George W. Bush, War on Iraq.

"America is a friend to the people of Iraq. Our demands are directed only at the regime that enslaves them and threatens us. When these demands are met, the first and greatest benefit will come to Iraqi men, women and children."
-President George W. Bush, War on Iraq.

The persistant.

"We will not tire, We will not falter, We will not fail."
-President George W. Bush, War on Terror.

The Leader

"America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people."
-President George Bush.

The President

"America is a Nation with a mission - and that mission comes from our most basic beliefs. We have no desire to dominate, no ambitions of empire. Our aim is a democratic peace - a peace founded upon the dignity and rights of every man and woman."

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That concludes my side of the debate. Good luck with yours, Me_Again, and enjoy the rest of your vacation.

[Disinterested]

FYI, Me_Again has been granted more time to post since she'll be away.

[Me_Again]

When I say that I am anti-Bush, it doesn't mean that I am unpatriotic. I love my country and all of its beautiful, purple mountian majesties. I love the Earth, the whole universe and the people and animals, who inhabit it. When I say that I am anti-Bush it means that I disagree with his political decisions and I question and ridicule his motives. I am not unpatriotic and I need to make this clear because many people feel that disagreeing with your President, is being unpatriotic. Which, I hope won't one day bite me in the a**, if the Patriot Act comes into play   .
     I have shown that President Bush has poor communication skills and my opponent has agreed to one "mishap". When speaking to the public, as a leader of the country, it's OK to use big words but first you should know how to pronunciate.
I have shown that president Bush changes his stance on various, important issues. Change happens and opinions change; However, when you change your opinion to often, you appear confused. I have shown President Bushs' awful political decisions, from going to war in Iraq, to disregarding and dismantling important environmental policies. It is a fact that President Bush has been noted as the having the worst environmental record of a  US President. Flawed intelligence, remains flawed, until it is changed and corrected. The time for change and correction is NOW. Awake America from your bewilder, perplexed, puzzled states of mind (I know, but I just had to say it one more time). I love this country and I have a deep respect for those who were here, first. It seems crazy that war can be created with such ease ! Shouldn't it be just as easy for peace ?
     In conclusion, I am anti-Bush but more important than that, I am pro-patriotic. I believe in unity and being one nation under God (I choose to say under, Earth power   ), INDIVISIBLE (look that word up   ), with liberty (look that one up, too) and justice for ALL. The most important word in the world is love,  no matter what language you say it in. We don't often hear politicians, using the word love and my advice to President Bush would be to use it. I do believe he can pronounce it and use it correctly. I believe the words of Ghandi - "Be the change you wish to see in the world"     .



On a lighter side note:
Walken, you could be the first person to jump off the parliament building with a chicken taped to your head   . Of course, there would be trained professionals by your side   .   ~KIDS~ That was just a joke. WARNING ! NEVER TRY THAT AT HOME  
And Walken, don't hit me with your giant frying pan, its best suited for frying big fish  
Seriously, I thank you for the experience of this debate, it was my first and you have bragging rights of being my first...debating opponent  
P.S. Can I still be Miss World  

[Disinterested]

Great debate guys!

And I'll now throw this one to our fabulous judges! You both did great.

[Irish]

Debator 1: Walken
Relevancy: 9
Countering: 8
Style: 6
Persuasiveness: 8
Total: 31
Debator 2: Me_Again
Relevancy:9
Countering: 8
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 6
Total: 31

[AztecInca]

Debator 1: Walken
Relevancy: 9
Countering: 8
Style: 7
Persuasiveness: 7
Total: 31

Debator 2: Me_Again
Relevancy:9
Countering: 8
Style: 9
Persuasiveness: 7
Total: 33

[Falco Rex]

This debate actually took me two days to read through but it was well worth it..Great job you two..

Debator1:Walken
Relevancy:10
Countering:10
Style:9
Persuasiveness:9
Total:38

Debator 2: Me_Again
Relevancy:10
Countering: 9
Style: 8
Persausiveness:7
Total:34

[Disinterested]

And the scores are in!

Walken wins the debate with a score of 33.3;
Me_Again finishes with a score of 32.6.

You both did a really fantastic job. Congrats to you both!