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British Eurofighter outsmarts two US F-15's.


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#1    Blackleaf

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 04:57 PM

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From The Scotsman -


Eurofighter a shooting star in clash with US jets

MURDO MACLEOD
POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT


IT might be over budget and years late but the Eurofighter Typhoon has shown that it can shake off America's best fighter plane and shoot it down.

A chance encounter over the Lake District between a Eurofighter trainer and two F-15 aircraft turned into a mock dogfight, with the British plane coming off best - much to the surprise of some in the RAF. The episode was hushed up for fear of causing US blushes.

For a project 10 years late and $8bn over budget, it is a welcome piece of good news.

The 'clash' took place last year over Windermere when the two-seater RAF Eurofighter was 'bounced' from behind by the two F-15E fighters.

The US pilots intended to pursue the supposedly hapless 'Limey' for several miles and lock their radars on to it for long enough so that if it had been a real dogfight the British jet would have been shot down.

But much to the Americans' surprise, the Eurofighter shook them off, outmanoeuvred them and moved into shooting positions on their tails.

The British pilots themselves were almost as surprised at winning an encounter with an aircraft widely regarded as the best fighter in the world.


scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com . . .

Edited by Thistle, 20 June 2005 - 06:31 PM.


#2    Blackleaf

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 05:03 PM

Does that mean the Eurofighter is a superior plane, British pilots are superior to American pilots, or both?


#3    Deception

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 05:44 PM

Well i personally think that the Eurofighter is a much newer and better plane. I really don't know if British pilots are trained better the American pilots

Though you must remember the USAF is starting to phase out the old F-15 for the F-22.

Edited by Deception, 20 June 2005 - 05:44 PM.

I don't know how many crazy nights and messed up days this has been going on................but i like it.

#4    Blackleaf

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:01 PM

QUOTE(Deception @ Jun 20 2005, 05:44 PM)
Well i personally think that the Eurofighter is a much newer and better plane. I really don't know if British pilots are trained better the American pilots

Though you must remember the USAF is starting to phase out the old F-15 for the F-22.

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I wouldn't be surprised if British pilots are better trained than American pilots.

Just look at British soldiers.  Our part-time soldiers (the Territorials) are better trained than American FULL TIME soldiers.


#5    Erikl

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:01 PM

Now imagine after Israel joins the EU, and IDF with all it's might and sophistication is combined with the other European militaries into a Euro NATO like alliance, that Israeli pilots would fly those Eurofighters.... with 200:11 to Israel in IAF vs. USAF drills when the IAF uses American planes, imagine what the scores would be like after such union... wink2.gif

Unite the RAF and IAF now! tongue.gif

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#6    Blackleaf

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:04 PM

And then if the US decides to stop selling you Apache helicopters, missiles and other weapons, you'll be a third-rate military power.

You are only powerful because you have the US to look after you with US-supplied weapons.

Also, Israel isn't even in Europe.  I don't even know why it competes in the Eurovision Song Contest, the European Championship qualifiers and plays European teams for World Cup qualifiers.

Edited by Blackleaf, 20 June 2005 - 06:04 PM.


#7    Deception

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:06 PM

But did yall read the part where it said

QUOTE
The US pilots intended to pursue the supposedly hapless 'Limey' for several miles and lock their radars on to it for long enough so that if it had been a real dogfight the British jet would have been shot down.


Because i didn't.(yea i know. Read the Entire post before you post) Though i still would put my money on the Eurofighter in a close range dogfight. Not in a long range encounter where the planes never even see each other.

I don't know how many crazy nights and messed up days this has been going on................but i like it.

#8    mrmonsoon

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:06 PM

As was pointed out before, let us not forget we are comparing 30+ year old tech vs brand new tech. crying.gif  crying.gif  

I wonder what the results would have been if it was 2 raptors on his tail. unsure.gif  unsure.gif  

I am not putting down the Euro-fighter, I just think the F-22 is better, and be a nationalistic American has nothing to do with it. innocent.gif  innocent.gif


#9    __Kratos__

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:14 PM

QUOTE
The British pilots themselves were almost as surprised at winning an encounter with an aircraft widely regarded as the best fighter in the world.


I always thought the MiG was considered better. At least on the bright side the british are our allies.  laugh.gif

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#10    Erikl

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:16 PM

QUOTE(Blackleaf @ Jun 20 2005, 07:04 PM)
And then if the US decides to stop selling you Apache helicopters, missiles and other weapons, you'll be a third-rate military power.

You are only powerful because you have the US to look after you with US-supplied weapons.

Also, Israel isn't even in Europe.  I don't even know why it competes in the Eurovision Song Contest, the European Championship qualifiers and plays European teams for World Cup qualifiers.

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A. untill 1973, we won all our wars without US aid whatsoever.
That's about 50% of the wars we fought. Our airforce and pilots were better than the british ones even during our independence war, when we scored 0:5.

B. Israel might not be in Europe, but culturally and economically it's European. Our legal system and political system are European. The two main sub-ethnic groups of Jews - Ashkenazim and Sephardim - lived in Europe for the last 2,500 years untill brutally forced out of the continent 60 years ago (mind you, 2,500 years ago the Slavs were still in Asia, the Hungarians were bunch of mongol hordes in central Asia, and the Germanic tribes were stil in Western Asia-Eastern Europe).
Also, Ashkenazim spoke Germanic language - Yiddish - which is undoubtly European, and Sephardim spoke Ladino - a dialect of Spanish - another European language.
I'm myself a descendant of a Russian Jew and Romanian Jew. My father was born in Russia, and my mother in Romanian. My father's forefathers came from Ukraine, their forefathers from Lithuania, and their forefathers from Poland. My mother's ancestors came from Spain and Poland.
I myself, thus, have ancestors from about 6 different European countries, that the only thing that unites them is their Europeaness. In this sense, I think I'm the most pan-European person on this forum tongue.gif. My bloodline is cross-european, from the western-most (Spain) corner to the eastern-most (Russia, Ukraine), down to one of the southern most (Romania).
My grandmother from my father's side, for example, (my she rest in peace), could speak 4 different languages, showing the complexity and cross-europeaness of the Jews in Europe - Yiddish, Ukrainian, Russian and later on Hebrew.

So claiming Israel has nothing to do with Europe is not only wrong and base-less, but also extremely rude - the Europeans have kicked us from their continent, and now they claim we have no ties to that continent, even though we lived there in many cases long before the modern ethnicities of Europe arrived there.
I myself am liable for an EU citizenship, for example, and there's nothing special about me in this case.

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#11    Erikl

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:19 PM

And if geography is an issue - last time I checked, Cyprus was a Western Asian Island, and Malta was a North African archipelague.

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#12    Erikl

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:35 PM

Oh wait Blackleaf, what's that - someone has beaten the Eurofighters two years ago! ohmy.gif

QUOTE
The following is a report that reveals some of the skills of the IAF pilots:

    Sep. 22, 2003 | THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    "Israeli air force pilots handily beat their German counterparts in "dogfights" in the first ever air force exercise between the two countries, an Israeli military official said Monday.

The Israeli F-15 pilots, aided by special technology that Israel does not share or sell to other countries, beat the Germans by more than 100 "hits," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. In the past, Israel has beaten American air force pilots by similar margins, the officials added.


    Israel purchases U.S. warplanes without battle technology, installing its own locally made systems into the aircraft.



Someone is better than something British? no way!

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#13    Blackleaf

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:42 PM

QUOTE(Erikl @ Jun 20 2005, 06:19 PM)
And if geography is an issue - last time I checked, Cyprus was a Western Asian Island, and Malta was a North African archipelague.

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Cyprus is right near to Greece, and Malta is off the Southern coast of Italy.


#14    Blackleaf

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:44 PM

Israel is dependant on the US.


Israel has received  $100 billion in aid from the US since 1948.  Every year, US taxpayers give Israel $5 billion in open and hidden aid. Egypt is paid $2 billion annually not to confront Israel.  Half of all US foreign aid goes to Israel and Egypt.  Israel's military is dependant on US equipment and technology.

Only the oft-used US veto prevents Israel from facing UN sanctions over its refusal to withdraw form the West Bank and the Old City.



#15    Erikl

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:48 PM

QUOTE(Blackleaf @ Jun 20 2005, 07:42 PM)
QUOTE(Erikl @ Jun 20 2005, 06:19 PM)
And if geography is an issue - last time I checked, Cyprus was a Western Asian Island, and Malta was a North African archipelague.

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Cyprus is right near to Greece, and Malta is off the Southern coast of Italy.

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Better check your georgraphy, "mate".
Cyprus' western most border is even more to the east and to the south than Turkey is.
Cyprus is only European because of it's culture, just like Israel.
As a matter of fact, I can take a flight to Cyprus right now and be there in half an hour - about the same time it'll take me to reach Israel's southern most city - Eilat.

Malta is really close to North Africa as well - and it's official language is a Semitic one (the only thing "european" about it is that most of the population adhere Catholicism... but then again Christianity originated from the Middle East, and was created by Jews...).

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