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Original Sin Or Original Blessing?


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#1    Sherapy

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 04:33 PM

Is the human race inherently good or inherently evil?  If we were at a fork in the road devil.gif  and the future of the human race depended on it  which way would you go????


For those that believe in original sin and that the nature of man is inherently evil and state that God has created laws which keep us from doing what we want and have human laws  (lots of them) that attempt  to do the same,

For those that believe that the inherent nature of man is good, state that God has created natural laws which allow us to do as we wish and would make laws that do the same ,

What is your perspective onf the human race? What is your viewpoint of yourself? Do you see yourself as being able to be trusted? In everything?  How about other people?  Until you get to know them one way or another what do you basically assume??


Are you courageous enought to answer?????




#2    Ciraxis

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 05:00 PM

i believe we are inherenty neither.  i believe we are neutral,  that it is how our life plays out that molds how we act.  i know selfless and giving people, just as i know those that would make war with a brother over small things.  humanity has done great and horrible things.

Edited by Ciraxis, 22 June 2005 - 05:03 PM.


#3    charon

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 05:13 PM

QUOTE(Sheri berri Posted Today @  12:33 PM )
Is the human race inherently good or inherently evil?
What one person might call good another might call evil/bad. So who is to say what good or evil is?

“Hither to Haides all shall come, hither the highest and the lowest class: evil it is, but it is a path that all must tread; all must assuage the three heads of the barking guard-dog Kerberos and embark on the grisly greybeard’s Charon’s boat that no one misses … But for you, may the ferryman convey to the place whither he gives passage to the shades of the righteous the body no longer tenanted by your soul.”

#4    Ciraxis

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 06:36 PM

what is your belief  sheri?  since no one else cares to discuss


#5    Boris the Spider

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 11:19 PM

That's a tough one. The ol' nature or nurture question.  huh.gif
I personally think people are more prone to be bad until they experience the pain and suffering they cause to others themselves. It sometimes has a lot to do with youth and inexperience.  Realization usually comes later in life when a person gains wisdom and looks back at all they have done. Some earlier than others; and sadly some not at all.  When you really know what you have done and how it must have hurt or hopefully helped other people, then you should start to practice compassion in your life.

That is what is wrong with the human race.  People have always been cruel to one another throughout history. One reason is we are too preoccupied with teaching our young people about material pursuits; by example mostly. We need to include teaching empathy classes starting all the way back to the first grade.  The media makes people these days have a twisted outlook on social behavior. They will mock people that are nice and trying to be good in life. So there is a kind of peer pressure that is being projected by the media. When someone is still at a gullible age they can be easily influenced by what they see and hear through the media.  Also many adults now are behaving like they never grew up in life and that adds to the problem.

Anyway my 2 cents

I feel I am trustworthy, I guess most would say that of themselves.  But I had my times in life where I was only thinking of myself and I am not proud of the things I did.  But I can say now that I have become a much better person by paying attention to my actions and making sure I don't affect others negatively.  

I see others as kind of out for their own gain. I don't usually trust others without a little proof of their character first. And I expect them to treat me the same.

Sorry so long and drawn out here.


#6    girty1600

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 11:24 PM

There must be a sane combination of good and evil. If we never experience evil how do we know what good is?


#7    Falco Rex

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 11:33 PM

Moral absolutism is foolish in my opinion. Nobody ever sets out to actively "Be Evil" just for the hell of it. Neither are we born doing "Good deeds"..
We are completely neutral until our environment affects us positively or negatively enough that we polarize towards one direction or another..
Therefore we can't inherantly be anything, unless it's Neutral, as has already been stated..
Even labeling things as good or evil may be a mistake. If you actually believe in the bible then you'll see even the Devil occasionally has a good side, and even God has behaved in a less than perfect manner..If the very icons that are supposed to symbolize Good and Evil fall short of thier ideal, then how can we really say anything is Good or Evil?



#8    GodsMessenger

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 12:00 AM

QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Jun 22 2005, 11:33 AM)
Is the human race inherently good or inherently evil?  If we were at a fork in the road devil.gif  and the future of the human race depended on it  which way would you go????


For those that believe in original sin and that the nature of man is inherently evil and state that God has created laws which keep us from doing what we want and have human laws  (lots of them) that attempt  to do the same,

For those that believe that the inherent nature of man is good, state that God has created natural laws which allow us to do as we wish and would make laws that do the same ,

What is your perspective onf the human race? What is your viewpoint of yourself? Do you see yourself as being able to be trusted? In everything?  How about other people?  Until you get to know them one way or another what do you basically assume??


Are you courageous enought to answer?????

View Post



According to my personal perception of what the original sin is, it is definately NOT a blessing.

Eating from the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil to me means the first time man JUDGED what was evil. It has resulted in all kinds of mans inhumanity to man based on his judgement that the other person is evil and should be punished for it.

We know what is right based on the Golden Rule .. God tells us do what is right.

But we make all kinds of excuses to prove that we really should do what we know is wrong. That we are somehow justified in being cruel to someone else because we have JUDGED that they deserve it.






#9    Paranoid Android

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 08:26 AM

Interesting topic.... And interesting answers so far.

Something I feel has been neglected though is that the question is speaking of our "inherent" nature - the nature we were born with.

For this we must look at a child.  Children are beautiful, cute, cuddly, funny, insightful, curious among many other traits, but you cannot deny that they are also extremely selfish - if you don't believe me, deny a young kid a chocolate at the shops when they ask for one, or take a baby's rattle from them, and see what happens.... Does the word tantrum mean anything to you guys?

Through experience and training, we can learn to suppress this look out for others other than ourselves.  Indeed we must learn these things in order to improve our society.  We can learn to be good people (substitute "good" with "productive" if you do not agree with such dualistic thought).

But there is no doubt in my mind that we are inherently selfish.  We are inherently evil.




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#10    Rosewin

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 12:25 PM

Original sin according to the bible has a very weighted meaning that can become a discourse in theology. Proof to me that it exist is simply that every child will eventually sin and know they are getting away with something that is clearly wrong. Not all wrong things are sins though. This is the meaning of inheriting sin and it being part of our flesh in the biblical sense. We cannot escape it and will always be tempted and thus were born into sin and with guilt. From the moment of reason every person here will have done something they consider a sin, if they consider sin at all that is...


#11    Sherapy

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 03:57 PM

QUOTE(Ciraxis @ Jun 22 2005, 11:36 AM)
what is your belief  sheri?  since no one else cares to discuss

View Post




I have to start by saying thankyou to everyone who has answered this is awesome looking at this in such unique ways, I believe in the inherent goodness of people, I believe we are born good I think  the answer of that question contributes to mankind in a big way, I have kids and I have raised them that they are inherently good and thus its natural and easy to be good (God made us  that way) Now not to say that we can't make mistakes because thats a large part of learning , but some of the mistakes I see in our beautiful universe could be remedied if we changed our core beliefs, I also think we need people like me to hold on to that belief. See hope where often its hard to see, I also agree with Boris the Spider and Gods Messenger view also  you added a flavor I hadn't looked at, I also can see the Neutral position as being valid also . I think thoughts that are thunk enough become beliefs that eventually determines behavior, Its appears to me that alot of things that are huge problems today  are how we beleive as a collective conciousness If we explored that would that make a difference??????




#12    GodsMessenger

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 11:29 PM

QUOTE(Imaginer @ Jun 23 2005, 07:25 AM)
Original sin according to the bible has a very weighted meaning that can become a discourse in theology. Proof to me that it exist is simply that every child will eventually sin and know they are getting away with something that is clearly wrong. Not all wrong things are sins though. This is the meaning of inheriting sin and it being part of our flesh in the biblical sense. We cannot escape it and will always be tempted and thus were born into sin and with guilt. From the moment of reason every person here will have done something they consider a sin, if they consider sin at all that is...

View Post



We don't "get away with" doing wrong EVER. Everytime we do wrong it becomes a part of us. A dirty little (or big) part of us.




#13    GodsMessenger

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 11:35 PM

QUOTE(girty1600 @ Jun 22 2005, 06:24 PM)
There must be a sane combination of good and evil. If we never experience evil how do we know what good is?

View Post



I don't need to stab myself in the chest to know that is not a good thing to do. We do not need to "experience evil" to know it is not good.

This strikes home to me personally because recently a relative of mine was stabbed to death and the murderer said he did it because he "wanted to know how it felt like to stab someone."

And "evil" is intentual harm. If I am homeless because of a flood, I do not need evil to experience the good of people helping me just because they care and want to help me.
In fact if my life is just fine the way it is and someone offers me tickets to a concert to see my favorite entertainer, it did not take any evil for me to experience that kindness and goodness.

No we do NOT need evil to experience good IMHO.



#14    GodsMessenger

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 11:38 PM

QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Jun 23 2005, 10:57 AM)
QUOTE(Ciraxis @ Jun 22 2005, 11:36 AM)
what is your belief  sheri?  since no one else cares to discuss

View Post




I have to start by saying thankyou to everyone who has answered this is awesome looking at this in such unique ways, I believe in the inherent goodness of people, I believe we are born good I think  the answer of that question contributes to mankind in a big way, I have kids and I have raised them that they are inherently good and thus its natural and easy to be good (God made us  that way) Now not to say that we can't make mistakes because thats a large part of learning , but some of the mistakes I see in our beautiful universe could be remedied if we changed our core beliefs, I also think we need people like me to hold on to that belief. See hope where often its hard to see, I also agree with Boris the Spider and Gods Messenger view also  you added a flavor I hadn't looked at, I also can see the Neutral position as being valid also . I think thoughts that are thunk enough become beliefs that eventually determines behavior, Its appears to me that alot of things that are huge problems today  are how we beleive as a collective conciousness If we explored that would that make a difference??????

View Post



You see they are NOT born that way. From the earliest age we teach them. Share your toys, Don't hit, Be polite!!



#15    Sherapy

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 04:07 AM

QUOTE(GodsMessenger @ Jun 23 2005, 04:35 PM)
QUOTE(girty1600 @ Jun 22 2005, 06:24 PM)
There must be a sane combination of good and evil. If we never experience evil how do we know what good is?

View Post



I don't need to stab myself in the chest to know that is not a good thing to do. We do not need to "experience evil" to know it is not good.

This strikes home to me personally because recently a relative of mine was stabbed to death and the murderer said he did it because he "wanted to know how it felt like to stab someone."

And "evil" is intentual harm. If I am homeless because of a flood, I do not need evil to experience the good of people helping me just because they care and want to help me.
In fact if my life is just fine the way it is and someone offers me tickets to a concert to see my favorite entertainer, it did not take any evil for me to experience that kindness and goodness.

No we do NOT need evil to experience good IMHO.

View Post




My heart goes out to you over your relative I to experienced a similar situation All th best to you and your family,  Namaste Sheri Berri







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