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faith/belief/spirituality


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#1    Gr8wight

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 02:41 AM

Hello,
   I have created a couple of polls relating to belief in the paranormal and belief in God. My purpose in creating them was to find out if belief in paranormal things is predicated upon a prior belief in God. My reason for asking the question is that I have been asked to write an essay regarding belief, from the point of view of an atheist (which I am). The specific question I have been given is:
QUOTE
Can you have spirituality/faith/belief without it's counterpart, religion or God?{ Does an atheist still participate in spirituality/belief/faith without the God or religion?}


   I am having difficulty because I do not see any semantic difference between the terms spirituality/faith/belief and religion/God. Can you people help me out a bit here by giving me examples of things you believe fall into the category of spirituality/faith/belief without being a part of religion/God? What are your thoughts on the matter?


note to moderator: I do not intend for this to be a debate. I do not think this topic should be in the skeptical thread. I am merely gathering opinions, and do not intend to comment on those opinions in this forum.


#2    Sherapy

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 03:06 AM

QUOTE(Gr8wight @ Jul 12 2005, 07:41 PM)
Hello,
   I have created a couple of polls relating to belief in the paranormal and belief in God. My purpose in creating them was to find out if belief in paranormal things is predicated upon a prior belief in God. My reason for asking the question is that I have been asked to write an essay regarding belief, from the point of view of an atheist (which I am). The specific question I have been given is:
QUOTE
Can you have spirituality/faith/belief without it's counterpart, religion or God?{ Does an atheist still participate in spirituality/belief/faith without the God or religion?}


   I am having difficulty because I do not see any semantic difference between the terms spirituality/faith/belief and religion/God. Can you people help me out a bit here by giving me examples of things you believe fall into the category of spirituality/faith/belief without being a part of religion/God? What are your thoughts on the matter?


note to moderator: I do not intend for this to be a debate. I do not think this topic should be in the skeptical thread. I am merely gathering opinions, and do not intend to comment on those opinions in this forum.

View Post





Gr8wight, many years ago I was a atheist myself in retrospect this is what I gained from the experience, by the very fact that I called myself an athiest meant I believed in something, my something was I believed there was something keeping things together, I also in retrospect felt it was a transitional phase,
a little time to clear out the religious Dogma and begin truth gathering for my own path a sort of deprogramming of sorts it took a few years. Spirituality is the belief in life, that all things are a part of life, for me God is that which is countless in  form and infinite in  possibility, So God can be all things and no things at the same time. God is just a generic term we use to transmit a higher understanding or universal awareness. I hope this helps Namaste Sheri Berri


#3    Paranoid Android

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 04:46 AM

QUOTE(Gr8wight @ Jul 13 2005, 12:41 PM)
QUOTE
Can you have spirituality/faith/belief without it's counterpart, religion or God?{ Does an atheist still participate in spirituality/belief/faith without the God or religion?}


   I am having difficulty because I do not see any semantic difference between the terms spirituality/faith/belief and religion/God. Can you people help me out a bit here by giving me examples of things you believe fall into the category of spirituality/faith/belief without being a part of religion/God? What are your thoughts on the matter?

View Post



IMO -
Spirituality - can refer to any belief involving supernatural beings, not necessarily God.  Can also refer to the self and its interactions with the natural/supernatural world.

faith/belief - both very similar words.  Everyone has a faith or belief in something, even if that happens to be belief in absolutely nothing.

religion - The dictionary will give you one definition of religion, but I believe the current social climate has changed the meaning of the word to refer specifically to the business organization known as "catholic" "Anglican" "Mormon" "JW" "Islam" or whatever religious institution you care to name here.

God - using the above definition of religion, I refuse to put God under that title, but rather put him under "spirituality", because the only we we can really know God is through living our life, not through a specific set of rules set down by an organization.  Although as an atheist, you may care to dispute this.  

Hope this helps Gr8white thumbsup.gif Keep us posted as to how you do, k.

All the best,



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#4    hyperactive

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 05:00 AM

to borrow from you PA, i will just edit your position to provide mine.
IMO -
Spirituality - can refer to any belief involving natural beings.  Can also refer to the self and its interactions with the natural world. (i do not believe in anything supernatural, but that there is quite a bit beyond human perception)

faith/belief - both very similar words.  Everyone has a faith or belief in something, even if that happens to be belief in absolutely nothing.

religion - it should mean "re-ligios"-the path back to the origin (or an origin).  it does indeed take on the more ominous "institutional" meaning nowdays though, and religion becomes associated only with beliefs in gods.  i concur with PA here that if there were some "creator class entity", the last place it should be placed in under the category of god or religion given all that these terms have come to represent.

God - i say there are no such things outside the minds of men.  



"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia


#5    Gr8wight

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 11:45 AM

QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Jul 12 2005, 11:06 PM)
QUOTE(Gr8wight @ Jul 12 2005, 07:41 PM)
Hello,
   I have created a couple of polls relating to belief in the paranormal and belief in God. My purpose in creating them was to find out if belief in paranormal things is predicated upon a prior belief in God. My reason for asking the question is that I have been asked to write an essay regarding belief, from the point of view of an atheist (which I am). The specific question I have been given is:
QUOTE
Can you have spirituality/faith/belief without it's counterpart, religion or God?{ Does an atheist still participate in spirituality/belief/faith without the God or religion?}


   I am having difficulty because I do not see any semantic difference between the terms spirituality/faith/belief and religion/God. Can you people help me out a bit here by giving me examples of things you believe fall into the category of spirituality/faith/belief without being a part of religion/God? What are your thoughts on the matter?


note to moderator: I do not intend for this to be a debate. I do not think this topic should be in the skeptical thread. I am merely gathering opinions, and do not intend to comment on those opinions in this forum.

View Post





Gr8wight, many years ago I was a atheist myself in retrospect this is what I gained from the experience, by the very fact that I called myself an athiest meant I believed in something, my something was I believed there was something keeping things together, I also in retrospect felt it was a transitional phase,
a little time to clear out the religious Dogma and begin truth gathering for my own path a sort of deprogramming of sorts it took a few years. Spirituality is the belief in life, that all things are a part of life, for me God is that which is countless in  form and infinite in  possibility, So God can be all things and no things at the same time. God is just a generic term we use to transmit a higher understanding or universal awareness. I hope this helps Namaste Sheri Berri

View Post




So, you agree with me that there is no semantic difference between faith/belief/spirituality and religion/God...?


#6    mako

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 12:20 PM

Let's look at the definitions of these words and see if there is a difference.  When you look at faith, you find:
firm belief in something for which there is no proof
and if you look at belief:
conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence

As you can see there is an immense difference.  Faith is a belief with no proof, whereas belief can often be based on evidence, not lack of it.

If you look at religion, you find:
a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
and for spirituality you find:
the quality or state of being spiritual  
Which take us to spiritual:
of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena b : of, relating to, or involving spiritualism

Once again there is a difference, one is much more specific than the other.  It is true there are other definition for these words, but in the context we are speaking these are the best definitions. yes.gif

Our earth is degenerate in these latter days.  There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end.  Bribery and corruption are common,   Children no longer obey their parents.  Every man wants to write a book, and the end of the world evidently is approaching.
                    Assyrian tablet circa 2800 BCE

#7    Gr8wight

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 12:56 PM

QUOTE(mako @ Jul 13 2005, 08:20 AM)
Let's look at the definitions of these words and see if there is a difference.  When you look at faith, you find:
firm belief in something for which there is no proof
and if you look at belief:
conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence

As you can see there is an immense difference.  Faith is a belief with no proof, whereas belief can often be based on evidence, not lack of it.

If you look at religion, you find:
a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
and for spirituality you find:
the quality or state of being spiritual   
Which take us to spiritual:
of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena b : of, relating to, or involving spiritualism

Once again there is a difference, one is much more specific than the other.  It is true there are other definition for these words, but in the context we are speaking these are the best definitions. yes.gif

View Post




Thanks for your input, but I've already done all that. The dictionary definitions of those words was my starting point. My question to the group was, can you give me any examples of something that falls into the category of spirituality without falling into the category of religion?


#8    mako

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 03:30 PM

belief in ghosts does not necessitate a belief in any religion.  Many Atheists believe in ghosts, but not in God.  That is just one example.   yes.gif

Our earth is degenerate in these latter days.  There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end.  Bribery and corruption are common,   Children no longer obey their parents.  Every man wants to write a book, and the end of the world evidently is approaching.
                    Assyrian tablet circa 2800 BCE

#9    Irish

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 04:17 PM

I would define all three words in one!
HOPE

Most people do not want to know the truth they only want confirmation for what they think is truth.

#10    Gr8wight

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 05:47 PM

QUOTE(mako @ Jul 13 2005, 11:30 AM)
belief in ghosts does not necessitate a belief in any religion.  Many Atheists believe in ghosts, but not in God.  That is just one example.   yes.gif

View Post




Do you think that a belief in ghosts falls into the category of spirituality? Having examined the dictionary definitions, I want to move away from them to actual word usage. I see the word spirituality to be mainly used to describe some form of thought or philosophy about how to live one's life. Does a belief in ghosts fall under that umbrella?



#11    Sherapy

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 05:58 PM

QUOTE(Gr8wight @ Jul 13 2005, 04:45 AM)
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Jul 12 2005, 11:06 PM)
QUOTE(Gr8wight @ Jul 12 2005, 07:41 PM)
Hello,
   I have created a couple of polls relating to belief in the paranormal and belief in God. My purpose in creating them was to find out if belief in paranormal things is predicated upon a prior belief in God. My reason for asking the question is that I have been asked to write an essay regarding belief, from the point of view of an atheist (which I am). The specific question I have been given is:
QUOTE
Can you have spirituality/faith/belief without it's counterpart, religion or God?{ Does an atheist still participate in spirituality/belief/faith without the God or religion?}


   I am having difficulty because I do not see any semantic difference between the terms spirituality/faith/belief and religion/God. Can you people help me out a bit here by giving me examples of things you believe fall into the category of spirituality/faith/belief without being a part of religion/God? What are your thoughts on the matter?


note to moderator: I do not intend for this to be a debate. I do not think this topic should be in the skeptical thread. I am merely gathering opinions, and do not intend to comment on those opinions in this forum.

View Post





Gr8wight, many years ago I was a atheist myself in retrospect this is what I gained from the experience, by the very fact that I called myself an athiest meant I believed in something, my something was I believed there was something keeping things together, I also in retrospect felt it was a transitional phase,
a little time to clear out the religious Dogma and begin truth gathering for my own path a sort of deprogramming of sorts it took a few years. Spirituality is the belief in life, that all things are a part of life, for me God is that which is countless in  form and infinite in  possibility, So God can be all things and no things at the same time. God is just a generic term we use to transmit a higher understanding or universal awareness. I hope this helps Namaste Sheri Berri

View Post




So, you agree with me that there is no semantic difference between faith/belief/spirituality and religion/God...?

View Post




Yes you could say I do agree,  Namaste Sheri


#12    mako

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 06:23 PM

I guess it is semantics.  What do mediums call up?  Spirtits of the dead.  What are ghosts supposed to be?  Spirits of the dead.  I would assume since spiritualists call up spirits of the dead and many of them are not overtly religious that yes ghosts are included in the umbrella of spiritualism, or my Aunty Ruth has been duped all these years with her laying restless ghosts to rest.  yes.gif

Our earth is degenerate in these latter days.  There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end.  Bribery and corruption are common,   Children no longer obey their parents.  Every man wants to write a book, and the end of the world evidently is approaching.
                    Assyrian tablet circa 2800 BCE

#13    Paranoid Android

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 03:44 AM

Something I'd forgotten about in regard to religion.  As I said in my last post, religion has come to refer almost exclusively to the organization.

But the Bible also gives it's definition of religion (or atleast "acceptable" religion)

QUOTE
James 1:27 (ESV)
"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world"


This is another way you can perhaps look at religion, ok.

All the best,




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My blog is now taking a new direction.  Dedicated to my father who was a great inspiration in my life, I wish to honour his memory (RIP, dad) by sharing with the world what he had always kept to himself.  More details, http://www.unexplain...showentry=27811




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