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DNA test may reveal IQ


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#1    UM-Bot

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Posted 17 July 2005 - 06:21 PM


Queensland Institute of Medical Research scientists may have found a way to measure intelligence through genetic tests. The researchers, who are led by Professor Nick Martin, have identified two points on chromosomes two and six as being highly influential in determining IQ.The institute's Professor Nick Martin the says over 600 pairs of identical and non-identical twins have been used in the research.

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#2    rane

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Posted 17 July 2005 - 11:31 PM

this is an amazing discovery!  i'm very hopeful for Geniocracy now, if it were to come into use in America....if we were to have Geniocracy, we could have these tests done to quickly determine who is above average intelligence and therefor be qualified to vote, and also be elected to offices!!  that means only the smartest would make the smartest decision for us all...

now the world hasn't disappointed me as much, i think we might have a bright future now  alien.gif

Edited by rane, 17 July 2005 - 11:33 PM.

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#3    Tiggs

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 01:15 AM

QUOTE(rane @ Jul 17 2005, 11:31 PM)
this is an amazing discovery!  i'm very hopeful for Geniocracy now, if it were to come into use in America....if we were to have Geniocracy, we could have these tests done to quickly determine who is above average intelligence and therefor be qualified to vote, and also be elected to offices!!  that means only the smartest would make the smartest decision for us all...

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Geniocracy - you're kidding me, right?

For starters, who decides which Genes are the "Superior" Genes? Who says that the most intelligent people are the ones best equipped to make the big decisions? Speaking as someone with a high IQ, I can tell you right now that I've made some terrible decisions in my time. High IQ isn't a golden "Never screw up" ticket, by any means.

Every living person on this planet has a genetic structure that has enabled their previous generations to survive, all the way from the dawn of man through to today. If you're alive, you have, by definition, a viable genetic structure to survive on this planet. If you're alive, you're already part of Nature's very own version of Geniocracy. Congratulations. Feel free to vote and run for office (age permitting).

Creating an artificial Geniocracy is pretty much akin to Nazi Germany. Enough said.


#4    whoa182

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 02:10 AM

wow thats awesome...

Its an inevitible future anyway so just go with it

Who wouldnt want their child to have an high IQ ? and do good in life... pfftt

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#5    AztecInca

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 03:41 AM

Geniocracy, what a wonderful future that would be....................


#6    ROGER

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 04:31 AM

crying.gif Making a Genetically superior human, with increased Mental and physical abilitys, would not want to associate with the common man (or Women). So as a Natural leader of his Country he would make more of his own kind. These people would fill the Rolls of Government and the Military.

Eugenics War of 2261 will kill 3/4 of the Earth population. Then the rest will kill each other off.

And the COCKROACH WILL RULE THE WORLD!

Oh Heck, I will be Dead by then any way, so GO FOR IT! w00t.gif

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#7    rane

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 08:24 PM

QUOTE(Tiggs @ Jul 17 2005, 07:15 PM)
QUOTE(rane @ Jul 17 2005, 11:31 PM)
this is an amazing discovery!  i'm very hopeful for Geniocracy now, if it were to come into use in America....if we were to have Geniocracy, we could have these tests done to quickly determine who is above average intelligence and therefor be qualified to vote, and also be elected to offices!!  that means only the smartest would make the smartest decision for us all...

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Geniocracy - you're kidding me, right?

For starters, who decides which Genes are the "Superior" Genes? Who says that the most intelligent people are the ones best equipped to make the big decisions? Speaking as someone with a high IQ, I can tell you right now that I've made some terrible decisions in my time. High IQ isn't a golden "Never screw up" ticket, by any means.

Every living person on this planet has a genetic structure that has enabled their previous generations to survive, all the way from the dawn of man through to today. If you're alive, you have, by definition, a viable genetic structure to survive on this planet. If you're alive, you're already part of Nature's very own version of Geniocracy. Congratulations. Feel free to vote and run for office (age permitting).

Creating an artificial Geniocracy is pretty much akin to Nazi Germany. Enough said.

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ni i'm not kidding, what am i a freakin' stand up comedian?

the only reasons i can think of you being opposed to something beneficial is because 1.) your a conformist, 2.) you do not understand Geniocracy correctly, or 3.) you just look at the bad side of everything; like other people who fear the smart people of the world

its a very simple thing...with Geniocracy, you simply have the above average voting, and the above average can go into office, and suggest ideas for solutons to our problems...(and no one is pissed off for being below avertage and not being aloowed to vote, ebacasue they understand that someone else should make the decisions)...its not just one person making the decisions, its a group of people WHOM ARE ALL LIKE MINDED AND SMART making the best decisions for their society.....you comparing Geniocracy to Nazis is way off, because the Nazis simply wanted to get rid of the Jews...they didn't plan on making a world of BENEFICIAL smart people BENEFITING the world; they were bent on killing, and destroying

and your speech about creating artificial Geniocracy was a waste, because that wasn't even what i was talking about...i'm talking about REAL people, who learned REAL things, and then learned to educate others with chemical education...this thing about "previous generations surviving through genetic structures" isn't at all to the point...its something about genetic development, and character development....which both have nothing to do with being a possible genius....Albert Einstein was dyslexic, and he still made the most important discoveries in the world...i don't think his mom and dad's DNA and chromosomes had anything to do with it...

its something our future will discover and something that will happen, whether you want to accept it or not..i'm not saying we will become a Geniocracy, i am saying that it would be a good idea...BUT I AM SAYING that we will discover chemical education, because there are currently labs doing successful research on it with Mice

to every man there own...you may not like Geniocracy, but there sure as hell are plenty of others who support the idea because they think its the best....its a much better thing than 2 OR MORE PRESIDENTIAL PARTIES TO TRY AND DECIDE FOR WHICH SHOULD TAKE OFFICE, WHEN  ALL ARE EQUALLY CORRPUT....about now, anything would be better than our current governmental structure, and Geniocracy is the best idea...we could get that idiot Bush out, and put people who know what they are doing in the office...

our Idiots are in office, and our geiuses are dying on the streets from starvation..with Geniocracy, we would find a solution to all the problems, and find a way to keep it taken care of...how many times has Bush helped the dying hobos on the streets of New York???...with Geniocracy we would take into consideration the whooooole population, and take care of EVERYONE, not just a select few

its much better to have MANY ideas than just one, which is the whole point of Geniocracy...you will have more than one smart opinion on what is best for the society..not any Nazi bull  alien.gif  alien.gif  alien.gif  alien.gif

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#8    rane

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 08:38 PM

QUOTE(ROGER @ Jul 17 2005, 10:31 PM)
crying.gif Making a Genetically superior human, with increased Mental and physical abilitys, would not want to associate with the common man (or Women). So as a Natural leader of his Country he would make more of his own kind. These people would fill the Rolls of Government and the Military.

Eugenics War of 2261 will kill 3/4 of the Earth population. Then the rest will kill each other off.

And the COCKROACH WILL RULE THE WORLD!

Oh Heck, I will be Dead by then any way, so GO FOR IT! w00t.gif

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alien.gif
yes, death is what i'm talkiin' bout!  I'M SO EXCITED!!....i've actually read about a robot war that will occur int he future, but these are from prophets and other sources that many wouldn't consider valid, but hey, Nostradomus has been pretty right too

actually, just because something is genetically superior doesn't mean it WEILL take over society....it depends on whether the being knows it can, and doesn't feel respect from its creators...not only that, but there would have to be something wrong with it genetically and physically in the brain....usually all evil is bred out of some type of failer, or some type of chemical imbalance

now, if we created half human Robots, that would be a problem, because they WILL try to rule us......but then again, the creators of the superior being, would make sure not to make it superior, and make sure that the being doesn't have any type of control over the creators...the creators MUST be happy witht heir inventions

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#9    blackstar

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 08:47 PM

[QUOTE]Albert Einstein was dyslexic, and he still made the most important discoveries in the world...i don't think his mom and dad's DNA and chromosomes had anything to do with it...


Yes your are RIGHT iam dyslexic but my I.Q is 117 Albert Einstein was 160.
My mother is about 145 my father is about 67 os DNA and chromosomes dont have anyhting to do with it.

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#10    Tiggs

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 03:09 AM

QUOTE(rane @ Jul 18 2005, 08:24 PM)
the only reasons i can think of you being opposed to something beneficial is because 1.) your a conformist, 2.) you do not understand Geniocracy correctly, or 3.) you just look at the bad side of everything; like other people who fear the smart people of the world


Rane,

My apologies. You obviously believe in Geniocracy deeply. I truely don't, so I'm going to spend some time to explain to you why that is.

I can see that you believe that putting intelligent people into positions of Political Power would solve the World's problems. It's a pervasive argument and on the surface makes sense.

My opposition is based on my belief that a Geniocracy wouldn't be beneficial. There are many reasons that I hold this belief, and I'll try to explain them to you as clearly and succinctly as I can.


Intelligence does not equal great leadership

I believe that empathy, compassion, courage, bravery, self-sacrifice and doing the right thing are the things that make great leaders. I also believe that being intelligent is no guarantee that you'll get those qualities. None at all.


Any one group should never be granted permanent control over another group

I believe that in a world with limited resources that giving control to any particular group, regardless whether that group is based on sex, ethnicity, sexuality, creed, intelligence, height, weight etc. is an accident waiting to happen. At some point, that group will consider themselves to be superior.

Consider an extreme example. If the food supply dwindles so that only half of the World can be fed, do you honestly believe that a Geniocracy wouldn't vote to save themselves? If only in the belief that given time, they would be able to solve the World's problems better than those not in the Geniocracy?


There is no Silver Bullet

I believe that you're optimistic that intelligence would solve all of these issues before they become a problem.  I'm not. I believe that the World is complex enough to be insoluble for some time, regardless of who controls it's Governments.

I also believe that many of the World's most intelligent people are already involved in resolving these issues, some of whom are advisors to the World's governments.

I have an IQ score of 155, which puts me in the top 0.1% of the worlds population intelligence-wise, but I have no interest in entering politics, Geniocracy or not. The intelligent people who want to be in politics are already in politics.


IQ = Genetics therefore Geniocracy = Eugenics

If you go back and read the article that started this thread, you'll see that there is a link between IQ and genetic makeup.  You might want to check out  this entry in Wikipedia - it may start you thinking differently.



#11    rane

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 05:01 AM

QUOTE(Tiggs @ Jul 18 2005, 09:09 PM)
QUOTE(rane @ Jul 18 2005, 08:24 PM)
the only reasons i can think of you being opposed to something beneficial is because 1.) your a conformist, 2.) you do not understand Geniocracy correctly, or 3.) you just look at the bad side of everything; like other people who fear the smart people of the world


Rane,

My apologies. You obviously believe in Geniocracy deeply. I truely don't, so I'm going to spend some time to explain to you why that is.

I can see that you believe that putting intelligent people into positions of Political Power would solve the World's problems. It's a pervasive argument and on the surface makes sense.

My opposition is based on my belief that a Geniocracy wouldn't be beneficial. There are many reasons that I hold this belief, and I'll try to explain them to you as clearly and succinctly as I can.


Intelligence does not equal great leadership

I believe that empathy, compassion, courage, bravery, self-sacrifice and doing the right thing are the things that make great leaders. I also believe that being intelligent is no guarantee that you'll get those qualities. None at all.


Any one group should never be granted permanent control over another group

I believe that in a world with limited resources that giving control to any particular group, regardless whether that group is based on sex, ethnicity, sexuality, creed, intelligence, height, weight etc. is an accident waiting to happen. At some point, that group will consider themselves to be superior.

Consider an extreme example. If the food supply dwindles so that only half of the World can be fed, do you honestly believe that a Geniocracy wouldn't vote to save themselves? If only in the belief that given time, they would be able to solve the World's problems better than those not in the Geniocracy?


There is no Silver Bullet

I believe that you're optimistic that intelligence would solve all of these issues before they become a problem.  I'm not. I believe that the World is complex enough to be insoluble for some time, regardless of who controls it's Governments.

I also believe that many of the World's most intelligent people are already involved in resolving these issues, some of whom are advisors to the World's governments.

I have an IQ score of 155, which puts me in the top 0.1% of the worlds population intelligence-wise, but I have no interest in entering politics, Geniocracy or not. The intelligent people who want to be in politics are already in politics.


IQ = Genetics therefore Geniocracy = Eugenics

If you go back and read the article that started this thread, you'll see that there is a link between IQ and genetic makeup.  You might want to check out  this entry in Wikipedia - it may start you thinking differently.

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thank you for being understanding to it, and being open; thankfully this didn't get out of hand like most other things..one reason i am very strong for it, is because its part of what my religion teaches..its very well explained and its fully understandable

first, i'd like to explain, no one in a Geniocracy has "control" over the other...they would realize this...a Geniocracy in place would still give consideration to others freedomes...a Geniocracy would be like a Senete meeting....the people present the issue, and the smartest think of many MANY solutions..they then present them to the public, and the above average *that is, the more informed* will then vote on what is best...so it would be the people who make the decisions...and with Geniocracy, we will have much better technology, and scientist, and much more...

what Geniocracy is based on is, yes intelligence, but that doesn't mean these people are deprived of personalities...also, just because they are above average intellignece doesn't mean they HAVE to go for office, they can stay a normal citizen...and they don't HAVE to vote, they can choose to stay away from elections, but its best to have smart people doing the right thing, other than a bunch divided on what is right, and what is wrong....

these are going to be people who can be beneficial to the society...with above average people voting only, that means only the really educated people can vote...that means they are most likely going to be involved in political decisions, or i should say, what is going on around them..these people are "more informed" you could say; because they know that its up to them to make the educated vote..they must know about the people running for office...unlike our current government, we barely know much about our presidents, and if we find something perticullar out, it is usually counteracted with "its not true"...so people then become divided, and people cannot think alike (not to say that cannot), even if its an issue on something like cloning...there are poeple for and against always, but once everyone knows the benefits, they realize that it was all conformist decisions seperating them..

the link you shown me gave proof to early IQ development can be altered  in childhood by nutrition, envirnmental factors, ect.; i agree with you, but this isn't on the topic of when these people are fully grown and tested for their IQ...i'm talking about after they have grown up, learned what is to be learned by their society, and are tested on above average intelligence..so this is way after mental development is done.....this DOES show how it effects the human's IQ, but it doesn't show that they won't be able to make functional decisions later in life...lets say if you were to have a bad IQ as a child, but you have an above average one at the age of 25, that would be from the development of the human as an individual and learning from their surroundings, and adapting to their society...they are bound to learn new things, and  always learn more because its part of adapting to the future, where things are always being discovered..

"Consider an extreme example. If the food supply dwindles so that only half of the World can be fed, do you honestly believe that a Geniocracy wouldn't vote to save themselves? If only in the belief that given time, they would be able to solve the World's problems better than those not in the Geniocracy?"

this is the type of pessimism i see in the entire world....if it was a noncorrupt Geniocracy *which is how it should and is supposed to be* they would find a solution other than starving everyone but themselves...they would find a way to produce ore crops, *and if they have the technology developed by then* they could create crops as large an amount as needed.....along with Chemical Education is going to be all the education about the latest inventions and discoveries.....lets say they found a way by now *that is since the Genocracy has been set, they have become very advanced technologically* they could clone and/or create plants and foods needed....*i hope we are both talking about the future, because i am..*

please, if there is something i left out *because i REALLY feel like i have* do not feel hesitant to post me on it...i'll try to explain further, if nessicary

what i present by saying Geniocracy is best, is that it would be better for a future World government...because we would have the technology by then to have eliminated many of the problems in this world....once we have technology that is highly advanced, we don't have to worry about limited resources, and diseases...we would have to worry more about hackers, and disease designers....

alien.gif i still feel like i forgot something...??

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#12    rane

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 05:25 AM

THIS is one thing i left out:

with Geniocracy, there would be a MASS opinion, with MANY views on how to take care of a problem...with MORE than one solution, the above average IQs and those in office *those who are more informed*  would then vote for the best idea...

and they would all be chemicallt educated to know the dsame things about issues that are bad and good...they would know better yet "THE TRUTH" of the matter rather than be divided into many seperate parties, which are all bitter towards each other

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#13    Erikl

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 07:47 AM

QUOTE
you comparing Geniocracy to Nazis is way off, because the Nazis simply wanted to get rid of the Jews...they didn't plan on making a world of BENEFICIAL smart people BENEFITING the world; they were bent on killing, and destroying


Wrong, wrong, wrong. And again - wrong.
The reason the Nazis were after the Jews (and the Gypsies, and the mental ill and homosexuals) is BECAUSE of their Eugenic ideology!
They simply believed in the existance of a master race - a blonde, blue-eyed tall master race. They believed the Germans were the original master race, but many of them have degenerated because they mixed with the above "subhumans".
The worst "subhumans", according to the Nazis, were the Jews, because they were able to integrate so well into German society.
They believed that the Jews were the only thing that prevented the Aryan master race from fulfilling it's destiny - to rule the world.
Hence, the Jews and all the other "subhumans" must be eliminated.
They also believed that in order to return to the Germans their original "master race" properties, special breeding programs have began, including the tracking of what they considered "lost Aryans" - Germans who have stopped being Germans. In this program they have kidnapped up to 200,000 Polish children who had blonde hair and blue eyes and raised them as Germans.
They also created breeding camps - where Aryan couples could breed.
They ordered SS members in Norway and Denmark to rape as much Norwegian and Danish women, to create more "blonde Germans".
They also had extensive plan how to eliminate all of Slavic intelligenetia, and degrading the Slavs into "slave race", that will serve the German "master race".

WW2 in this sense was 2 wars, fought at the same time - Eugenic war, in which 11 million people died (what would be known later as the "Holocaust"), and many others have been part of Eugenic experiments, and a territorial war, where 50 million people died.

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#14    LarryOldtimer

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 08:43 AM

QUOTE(rane @ Jul 17 2005, 04:31 PM)
this is an amazing discovery!  i'm very hopeful for Geniocracy now, if it were to come into use in America....if we were to have Geniocracy, we could have these tests done to quickly determine who is above average intelligence and therefor be qualified to vote, and also be elected to offices!!  that means only the smartest would make the smartest decision for us all...

now the world hasn't disappointed me as much, i think we might have a bright future now  alien.gif

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Do you mean smart people like the scientists circa 1975 who wanted to spread soot on the Earth's polar caps to prevent the coming ice age?  Intelligence does not preclude craziness.   no.gif


#15    whoa182

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 06:33 PM

why are you comparing hitlers plans to science giving all kids a better chance at life regardless of their color and features.

what a awful comparison you are making. This is clearly much different!

There maybe common interests that most or everyone would want a smart child ( who doesnt! - its why we send them to school right to achieve A's?) but not everyone will have the same ideology about what they want their child to look like in terms of color of hair and eyes etc..

There would still be diversity in humans even if the majority were smart.  You get dull smart people and hilarious smart people.  Maybe you are trying to stereotype how smart people act/behave socialy. I dont know.

This argument is so damn pathetic about comparing this to hitler.  It's going to happen and thats it. get over it.

Get some common sense.

Edited by whoa182, 24 July 2005 - 07:35 PM.

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