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beliefs of heaven and hell


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#16    hyperactive

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 04:40 AM

QUOTE(Watzel @ Aug 15 2005, 01:04 PM)
I believe that Mohammed was the devil.  devil.gif

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and i think that of christianity..... (that is a a great evil spread across the land to bring about the destruction of humanity).  

QUOTE(saladins follower @ Aug 15 2005, 07:51 PM)
very simple  original.gif is it possible the honorable prophet was referring to the early muslim crusaders (talking about  Surah 9:38 and 9:39
O ye who believe! What is the matter with you , that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth?) when its time to fight for your religion, and take back mecca.??? is it possible,

w00t.gif is it possible the jihad (holy war) was reffering to when the christians were trying to take back jerusalem  yes.gif


ur just hard headed some times all it is  grin2.gif

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yes, jihad means exertion.  the mistake made is that islam calls for defense.  it is not a pacifistic religion (like is bretheren).  it does not call to be the agressor, but to defend (by the sword where necessary).  a jihad to a muslim is equivilant to a "just war" in christianity.  for those that don't understand this; war such as those led by the bush presidents could also be called jihads if we want to start labeling things to serve our own purposes - bush's call their wars just and they proclaim themselves christian... )

and no, i am not muslim.  i just tire of all the western misconceptions of this religion, especially when they come from an a group that is by no means "of unbloodied hands" (christianity).

here is a test, which of christianity and islam calls for the equal treatment of women? hint: it isn't christianity!


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia


#17    Sherapy

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 06:15 AM

QUOTE(hyperactive @ Aug 15 2005, 09:40 PM)
QUOTE(Watzel @ Aug 15 2005, 01:04 PM)
I believe that Mohammed was the devil.  devil.gif

View Post


and i think that of christianity..... (that is a a great evil spread across the land to bring about the destruction of humanity).  

QUOTE(saladins follower @ Aug 15 2005, 07:51 PM)
very simple  original.gif is it possible the honorable prophet was referring to the early muslim crusaders (talking about  Surah 9:38 and 9:39
O ye who believe! What is the matter with you , that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth?) when its time to fight for your religion, and take back mecca.??? is it possible,

w00t.gif is it possible the jihad (holy war) was reffering to when the christians were trying to take back jerusalem  yes.gif


ur just hard headed some times all it is  grin2.gif

View Post



yes, jihad means exertion.  the mistake made is that islam calls for defense.  it is not a pacifistic religion (like is bretheren).  it does not call to be the agressor, but to defend (by the sword where necessary).  a jihad to a muslim is equivilant to a "just war" in christianity.  for those that don't understand this; war such as those led by the bush presidents could also be called jihads if we want to start labeling things to serve our own purposes - bush's call their wars just and they proclaim themselves christian... )

and no, i am not muslim.  i just tire of all the western misconceptions of this religion, especially when they come from an a group that is by no means "of unbloodied hands" (christianity).

here is a test, which of christianity and islam calls for the equal treatment of women? hint: it isn't christianity!

View Post




Hyper I ask you are there different expessions of Muslim I have haerd they are a peaceful loving religion I'm not obseving that I have researched myself  and have come to the conclusion  that Muslim has become misunderstood as well as Christainity what may of started as a great idea got lost in translation, the bombings of 9/11 were an example of that religion as is is the source of serious problems I know you don't disagree. Namaste Sheri




#18    hyperactive

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 06:32 AM

sheri,

the best way to think of all three of the abrahamic religions is like hornet's nests.

if they were alone (no other competing hornets) they would peacefully go about their business.  however, they are not alone, and they know it, for they each have their 2 brothers to compete with.  ever watch brothers compete?  well this is not a friendly competition.  this is a "make or break" competition for the rule of the world for they all see the world as theirs (since they all follow the same basic views on the earth being god's gift to them to have dominion over).

all three religions completely allow for warring in the defence of what is theirs.  now what is really "theirs"?  that is where all the variations on each religion start to come into play.  some abrahamic people are happy to share, some are not.

back to the hornet's nest: rile an abrahamic religion up and you get stung!  there is no doubt about that.  ready to sting they always are, be it terrorists, or giant armies, or massive strategic weapons stockpiles.  the abrahamic religions are paranoid, and in fear of their god (no matter what some of them will tell you, the basis for the religions is fear - and denial).  what does that breed?  look at the world today!  are we a people at peace with ourselves, with nature?  are we surrounded by societies that promote violence and hatred, fear and dillusion, denial and false supremacy?

the best way to look at the trio is to view it as the "line of prophets" and remove the boundaries defining the three sects otherwise you will put 90% of your effort into analyzing the 10% that differentiates them.  if i am around a nest of stinging flying instects i do not concern myself with "are they wasps or hornets" but rather with not getting stung! (to simplify it greatly)

if there is such a thing as a conscious force influencing humanity then i think it to be a rather nasty thing indeed if it is the one to have beset this trio of beliefs upon humanity.


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia


#19    Sherapy

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 06:38 AM

Thankyou hyper that was stated and well  articulated l I understand Namaste Sheri




#20    Watzel

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 02:37 PM

I think now is the time for religions to be understood for what they really are. And I think that the way Islam has been brought to the forefront of the worlds consciousness recently indicates that it is time to dissect these religious beliefs.  We are, collectively, beginning to open our eyes to just how misdirected religions can be.  Christianity is no different from all the rest. All religions need to be recognized as dangerous in their interpretations. Therefore, organized religion should be outlawed. Not ban religion, but ban the organized groups of religion. People should only be allowed to worship in private, in their own family and their own dwelling.






#21    101

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 02:45 PM

QUOTE(iac_tracker @ Aug 13 2005, 02:59 AM)
QUOTE(Watzel @ Aug 12 2005, 03:50 PM)
God may have spoke to someone some day in the past, funny how God hasn't spoken to anyone for over 1500 years; no one mentally sane that is

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   I don't know about you but God speaks to me everyday I know I may be young But i seek his knowledge and i can see the big picture. Just look ,got creates miracles everyday remember actions are lowder than words. What do you expect for there to be a big earthquake and for the clouds to part and this deep voice come from nowhere and say what you want him to say? Well i got bad news thats not gonna happen. thumbsup.gif

I AM PROUD TO BE CATHOLIC grin2.gif

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God speaks to me too. I am glad that God talks to me and I have a relationship with him.


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Just remember, you can do anything (that is physically possible) that you set your mind to.  All you have to do is believe in yourself.- Mako

#22    Paranoid Android

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 02:48 PM

QUOTE(Watzel @ Aug 17 2005, 12:37 AM)
I think now is the time for religions to be understood for what they really are. And I think that the way Islam has been brought to the forefront of the worlds consciousness recently indicates that it is time to dissect these religious beliefs.  We are, collectively, beginning to open our eyes to just how misdirected religions can be.  Christianity is no different from all the rest. All religions need to be recognized as dangerous in their interpretations. Therefore, organized religion should be outlawed. Not ban religion, but ban the organized groups of religion. People should only be allowed to worship in private, in their own family and their own dwelling.

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I can see the logic in that, but what if I have a friend who is of the same belief as me.  does that mean I cannot worship with him or her?  



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#23    hyperactive

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 03:12 PM

QUOTE
what if I have a friend who is of the same belief as me. does that mean I cannot worship with him or her?


that would all depend on the view of those defining "organized".  two people agreeing to meet and discuss a particular item is the basis of "organiziation".  of course, nobody is going to be there (at least i hope not) to police what any 2 people are getting together for.

pamphlets or promotion of other kinds is perhaps another issue.

organized religion isn't going to be "removed" from society so quickly though.  just like tobacco, too many have the habit.  like the tobacco industry, we should madate organized religion to contribute a % of their dollars to funding a truth/awareness organization.


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia


#24    101

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 03:18 PM

Hi Hyper, I know you find this hard to believe but my pastor tells us the truth even if it makes us unhappy. Some of the old members of the church that were use to the first pastor left. They were scared and angry.

But to find out the truth a person must read about what they are doing and not rely on heresay.  grin2.gif

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Just remember, you can do anything (that is physically possible) that you set your mind to.  All you have to do is believe in yourself.- Mako

#25    hyperactive

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 03:42 PM

101, everybody has his or her own truth.  10 people get together and agree on something, and they have a common truth.  100 people get together....

so what if 10 million people get together and agree that flying purple elephants exist?  it is the truth to them.....

there is "my truth", "your truth", ...  but what of "the truth"?  well, the admission of our lacking of understanding is too much for many.  that is why we have religion/superstition/myth/legend in the first place.


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia


#26    101

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 03:53 PM

ohmy.gif flying purple elephants...you know we have them here in Florida. tongue.gif

"the truth" is found is what you see and have proof of right.  I think I learned this it was called Naturalism-a moral or right based on natural occurances or disasters..well the world. Is this where you base all your Truth?

The reason why I believe God is "the truth" is because I know him. If people knew him they would believe in him. But to get to know someone you have to meditate and spend time with them. It is just like getting to know a person but he is invisible.



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Just remember, you can do anything (that is physically possible) that you set your mind to.  All you have to do is believe in yourself.- Mako

#27    lightbeyondthedark

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 04:22 PM

On earth life sucks... For most everyone... For some more then others, for some alot more then others... Some have it pretty good, but when it comes down to it, its all sh***!! This is why we have grace...

Hell is being pulled away from God... No God, no grace... God holds together what we conceive to be reality... He is the source of all love... If we are pulled away from God we are thrown into a chaotic, loveless, & dark abyss...

Well, thats just my opinion...

Maybe... ;-)

LBD

“A wise man among the ignorant is as a beautiful girl in the company of blind men.”
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#28    hyperactive

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 04:23 PM

i think you do not really want my answers on "truth", 101.

knowing something, in other words something being familiar, is comforting.  while something appears to work for you at one level, it may fail you at another.  yet, when one only looks at things at the level where "working" seems to occur one can mislead onself.

what comforts you, comforts you.  "jesus", "allah", "odin", "marduk", "dakini", or the pinal gland.


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia


#29    LarryOldtimer

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 01:37 AM

QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Aug 15 2005, 11:15 PM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Aug 15 2005, 09:40 PM)
QUOTE(Watzel @ Aug 15 2005, 01:04 PM)
I believe that Mohammed was the devil.  devil.gif

View Post


and i think that of christianity..... (that is a a great evil spread across the land to bring about the destruction of humanity).  

QUOTE(saladins follower @ Aug 15 2005, 07:51 PM)
very simple  original.gif is it possible the honorable prophet was referring to the early muslim crusaders (talking about  Surah 9:38 and 9:39
O ye who believe! What is the matter with you , that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth?) when its time to fight for your religion, and take back mecca.??? is it possible,

w00t.gif is it possible the jihad (holy war) was reffering to when the christians were trying to take back jerusalem  yes.gif


ur just hard headed some times all it is  grin2.gif

View Post



yes, jihad means exertion.  the mistake made is that islam calls for defense.  it is not a pacifistic religion (like is bretheren).  it does not call to be the agressor, but to defend (by the sword where necessary).  a jihad to a muslim is equivilant to a "just war" in christianity.  for those that don't understand this; war such as those led by the bush presidents could also be called jihads if we want to start labeling things to serve our own purposes - bush's call their wars just and they proclaim themselves christian... )

and no, i am not muslim.  i just tire of all the western misconceptions of this religion, especially when they come from an a group that is by no means "of unbloodied hands" (christianity).

here is a test, which of christianity and islam calls for the equal treatment of women? hint: it isn't christianity!

View Post




Hyper I ask you are there different expessions of Muslim I have haerd they are a peaceful loving religion I'm not obseving that I have researched myself  and have come to the conclusion  that Muslim has become misunderstood as well as Christainity what may of started as a great idea got lost in translation, the bombings of 9/11 were an example of that religion as is is the source of serious problems I know you don't disagree. Namaste Sheri

View Post



I am not hyper, but I have drawn my own conclusions about Islam.  It began as a conquering religion, and a bloody one.  Overall, it has never changed, from any religious standpoint.  One of its basic tenets from the get go was that the world had to be subdued and made to worship Allah, i.e., everyone had to become Muslims.  That tenet has not changed an iota.  People who know no better (or do, and nevertheless lie about it) say that Islam tolerates "People of the Book", i.e., Jews and Christians well . . . nothing could be further from truth . . . Christians and Jews pay through the nose for being so where Islam rules.  Where Islam rules, when the Muslims run amok and slaughter Christians, their leaders say, "Ho hum, it was only Christians, no loss there," and do nothing whatsoever to punish the killers.  If you haven't noticed, Jews have become anathema to Muslims just about every where, and Muslims won't even tolerate them anymore.  In the middle of the 20th Century, some Muslims who were peace loving and rational tried to hijack Islam, in Iran.  Under the Shah, Iran was a progressive country.  Women could get educations, have careers, drive automobiles, and could go out in public on their own.  But when Imam Ayatollah Khamenei returned and overthrew the Shah, Iran was plunged back into 6th Century CE thinking and that was the end of that little rebellion.  Women were once again suppressed severely, and the most fundamentalist form of Islam returned.  The Muslims always present a tolerant face when they are in the minority, but true and brutal Islam returns quickly when they have a majority.  The goal of Islam remains . . . to take over all peoples of the world and force the inhabitants to either accept Islam or die.  Simple as that.  I know that others, liberals espousing diversity and Muslims, will tell you different, but they are either badly misinformed or lie.  Think Taliban when you think Muslim . . . some are less fundamentalist, but not a whole lot.  IMO, any woman who would convert willingly to Muslim has no self respect, and is willing to become essentially a slave to the men around her.  Typically, under Islam, women have no rights at all.  That is my take on it, and I have known more than a few Muslims in my day, and worked with and supervised them.  They are the most difficult people to supervise I have ever experienced, bar none.  There are always rebels in any religion who, when they can do so, abandon the tenets of their religion, and many keep on calling themselves by the name of their religion, even though they no longer practice that religion.  I am sure you have met some Christians like that, and certainly there are lots of Jews in name only.  Those who think otherwise will, in the end, get blindsided.  I can get along with just about anyone, but I am quite careful in who I put trust in.  My experience is that few deserve that trust.  Keep in mind that actions speak louder than mere words.   wink2.gif


#30    saladins follower

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 02:33 AM

oh snap larry putting on the big pants laugh.gif  laugh.gif  laugh.gif j/k but i see ya point the jews are attacking the muslims in israel,but people every where mistreat each other, no religion is perfect, if it was we could all agree on something


but i still say allah  grin2.gif





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