68 replies to this topic

[Homer]

Yes, radio waves travel at the speed of light.

Radio waves are cool 8)

[Magikman]

The rough estimate is approx. 80 light years (the article I will link to states that we have been broadcasting radio waves since the 1920's). Our own galaxy is approx. 100,000 light years in diameter, so you can imagine how insignificant that distance is in the greater scheme of things.

"The argument that the distances are too vast does not hold water in my book."

The argument holds an ocean of water in my book, considering the implications in that single, simple fact shown above. It is estimated that the Milky Way Galaxy contains between 200 to 250 billion stars. You can use the 'Drake' equation to theorize the number of intelligent species that possibly inhabit just our galaxy. Again, I stress the word 'theorize', because we obviously cannot say for sure how precise the equation really is, but it will give you an idea of the incredible distances involved when speculating about the probability of contact with an alien race. Click on the link below and scroll about a third of the way down the page to the "Calculating the Probability of Intelligent Life in the Milky Way Galaxy" heading.

CLICK HERE

Although it is only statistical data gleaned from an unproven theoretical formula, it is data that nonetheless suggests impossible distances between 'possible' intelligent species, no matter how advanced they may be. It may be true that we still have much to learn about ourselves and the universe in general, but there's nothing like the stark, cold reality of hard numbers to convince any one of the improbability of contact with any alien intelligence, now or in the past. The analogy would be very similar to trying to locate a specific grain of sand in a desert, it's that simple, and just as extraordinarily difficult.

Magikman  :sg

[Loonboy]

[blue]If you were talking of using our current technology of a rocket strapped to the ass of a capsule as propulsion across those distances, then yes, it is a major, major problem.

However, many Ufo sightings report that the craft basically vanished as if switched off, or move at incredible speeds, which suggests that another technology is being used, one which we have yet to discover. Maybe they warp dimensions. Whatever. As I've said before, it's arrogance to say that things cannot be done based upon what we know now. Look at all the things we can do today which were unthinkable at the turn of the twentieth century.

It may indeed be possible, but we don't understand it.
[/blue] :sj

[Homer]

I agree LB,
There is no question that no amount of speed can be used to cover the vast distances of the universe by any species in the universe. It has never happened and it never will happen for reasons that have been explained many times and most recently by Magikman.  

But as has been stated before and just recently by LB, other dimensions or spacetime warps may be possible. Warping spacetime has already been proven, it happens everywhere in the universe everyday. but the extent of warping and the application of warping remains to be seen.  

The String-Theory suggest ripples in spacetime and the M-Theory(Multiple String Theory) suggests the possibility of 11 dimensions. Granted it's just a theory, but out of the vastness of the universe I find easy to believe in more than just 4 dimensions.

Anyways, I believe it's impossible to travel throughout the universe, or even to travel throughout our own galaxy because no amount of speed can cover the distances without taking hundreds of thousands or even millions and billions of years. But I believe space travel could be possible if spacetime could be manipulated by ripples or folds; or that alternate dimensions could be utilized.

[Loonboy]

[blue]
For what it's worth, I think the major problem in space travel is not 'how to do it' but 'how to navigate'. When we see starlight, it's already light years old, sometimes millions of years old and as such, the source of the light will have changed. The universe as we see it from our planet earth does not exist. The closest stars have changed position only slightly. The furthest stars have moved great distances.

How do we even begin to navigate through such a complex system?
[/blue] :s9

[Kira]

:s6 Good point LB.

So even if we did map out any of the star systems out there, they would be out of date.

[Homer]

Although that is true, we can measure the red shift and blue shift of stars and galaxies to determine their approximate speed, direction and distance. With this information, we have close approximations of their current location in earth's time. That being said, to answer LB's question, we can't navigate through the 'complex system' because the distances are too vast, and not because we don't know where they are currently. After all, we would only have to follow the light.

[Loonboy]

[blue] I forgot about the red/blue shift thing. Good point.

But, say you wanted to go from here to the Andromeda Galaxy by warping dimensions etc? How would you know that you wouldn't end up close to or in a star? How would you know you would end up in a spot where it was safe to be?

You might appear in the middle of a giant star and be instantly vaporised? Or on the brink of a black hole you hadn't seen with the lack of red/blue shift...
[/blue] :sg

[Homer]

Good point. Warping spacetime and utilizing different dimensions are nothing more than science fiction for now. Theoretical physicists have been, and will continue to be, thinking about this for years. One of the problems is that even if they have a theory on it, the technology isn't currently available to test the theory.

[Mystify]

Was just reading this and came up with the thought of just how possibly advanced an Alien race out there in the universe could really be. I mean... we've come along way but what if the whole spacewarp and time dimensions thing has already been discovered and used by an alien race? If anything... all species everywhere in the universe belong to the same universe (for what we know anyway), which means that they too would also have tried to find ways of travelling through space at great speeds......cool :s03

[PurpleStuart]

Another interesting thought, however unlikely it is, is that it is theoretically possible that WE are the most advanced lifeform in the universe.
I don't personally believe this, as odds are against it, but it is possible.

[Kira]

QUOTE

'is that it is theoretically possible that WE are the most advanced lifeform in the universe. I don't personally believe this, as odds are against it, but it is possible.

If we are then it's a little worrying really.
Just my opinion :(

[Mystify]

I agree....
One thing I would place a bet on for sure is that were not the dumbest of the bunch. There has to be a race somewhere out there with less intelligence.

Hmmmm.... I wonder. Do you guys think that we are the only life forms to maybe have a soul?

Could it be possible to have feelings and emotions without a soul?

hmmmm... :s02

[SpaceyKC]

         Mystify,
        I guess it's possible to have one without the other,  but I've always idealized people with feelings and sensitivity as having a (good) soul.   :)

[PurpleStuart]

I'm sure we've talked about souls elsewhere, but in my opinion, what people call a soul is what i call sentience - i don't believe there is anything "extra". The word "soul" has too many religious conatations.

In the same way that i believe it unlikely that we are alone in the universe, i also don't believe we are the only race to have a soul (sentience)