Think about some things.

[Septimus]

Well I was reading another thread and I thought this'd make for an interesting discussion. This isn't a thread discussing whether or not God exists, it's IF he does exist-

Do any of you remember MIB, where there are little aliens in K's locker, and they think he's God? Or maybe "The Sims", where we, as some bored person, are sitting in front of a screen controlling these little digital peeps' lives.

What if we were that insignificant in comparison to a god? What if god was just a bored little kid, looking after his tank of ants and watching them dig little tunnels? What do you think of all this? Has it ever crossed your mind? That god could be just like us but unlike us, that he could be part of another society we know nothing about? Like the aliens in K's locker. Hm?

[SilverRain Queen]

Well I was reading another thread and I thought this'd make for an interesting discussion. This isn't a thread discussing whether or not God exists, it's IF he does exist-

Do any of you remember MIB, where there are little aliens in K's locker, and they think he's God? Or maybe "The Sims", where we, as some bored person, are sitting in front of a screen controlling these little digital peeps' lives.

What if we were that insignificant in comparison to a god? What if god was just a bored little kid, looking after his tank of ants and watching them dig little tunnels? What do you think of all this? Has it ever crossed your mind? That god could be just like us but unlike us, that he could be part of another society we know nothing about? Like the aliens in K's locker. Hm?

785271[/snapback]

Definately a thought as noone knows the reality. If there were a God that set the rules, we're in a whole heap of trouble, it's do or die.

In that case, much like what Christians believe today. Totally movtivated by fear.

I being the person I am...it's die for me....Not interesting in serving a God that kills for pleasure or the fact that he's bigger than us or made some stupid rule just to control.

Now on the other hand...if there is a society of G.O.D. that were kind motivators on how life should be lived in order for better health, and that noone is punished but taken into reform and shown a better standard.....I can live with that.

But there isn't any evidence of either and noone really knows, although they like to sell the idea that they know.

[MedicTJ]

Man, I hear too much of this.

"Christians are motivated by fear"

I'm a Christian. And I am NOT motivated by fear. I'm one of the people who just wants to help others as much as I possibly can. That has nothing to do with fear. That has everything to do with trying to be the best person I can be.

I've been through two open-heart surgeries...both at the ages of 18 and 19..and due to a heart condition that could have taken my life at any moment.

Trust me, dude. I KNOW what fear is.

Christianity isn't fear.

[SilverRain Queen]

Man, I hear too much of this.

"Christians are motivated by fear"

I'm a Christian.  And I am NOT motivated by fear.  I'm one of the people who just wants to help others as much as I possibly can.  That has nothing to do with fear.  That has everything to do with trying to be the best person I can be.

I've been through two open-heart surgeries...both at the ages of 18 and 19..and due to a heart condition that could have taken my life at any moment.

Trust me, dude.  I KNOW what fear is.

Christianity isn't fear.

785388[/snapback]

Then you are lying to yourself.

No Christian wants to go to hell....they have a promise of heaven. A Christian can't do anything he deems 'wrong' or that fear of hell comes to the surface. Obviously you haven't done anything wrong to worried about it. Gees I guess you can cast the first stone.

The fact that you 'fear' your life taken shows there is no peace in your life. You should be 'happy' God wants to take you home.

I have no fear of death and have had two near-death experiences.

You are what you believe.

[hyperactive]

it is also entirely possible that a "life form" that some would consider to be godly exists and has not even noticed mankind. a being of such scope noticing humans could be akin to you noticing a fleck of dust in the wind.

[MedicTJ]

Man, I hear too much of this.

"Christians are motivated by fear"

I'm a Christian.  And I am NOT motivated by fear.  I'm one of the people who just wants to help others as much as I possibly can.  That has nothing to do with fear.  That has everything to do with trying to be the best person I can be.

I've been through two open-heart surgeries...both at the ages of 18 and 19..and due to a heart condition that could have taken my life at any moment.

Trust me, dude.  I KNOW what fear is.

Christianity isn't fear.

785388[/snapback]

Then you are lying to yourself.

No Christian wants to go to hell....they have a promise of heaven. A Christian can't do anything he deems 'wrong' or that fear of hell comes to the surface. Obviously you haven't done anything wrong to worried about it. Gees I guess you can cast the first stone.

The fact that you 'fear' your life taken shows there is no peace in your life. You should be 'happy' God wants to take you home.

I have no fear of death and have had two near-death experiences.

You are what you believe.

785439[/snapback]

Of course no Christian wants to go to hell. No Muslim or Jew wants to go to hell either.

Because I believe in Jesus Christ doesn't mean I'm afraid of believing anything different.

You have to understand my belief system. I believe that if you treat others badly, and you live your life just to cheat at every turn, steal at every turn, and lie at every turn, then you should be sent to somewhere like hell when you're all done.

It's called "punishment".

Most of the people that are opposed to me in this concept are those that cheat at every turn, steal at every turn, and lie at every turn.

It has nothing to do with fearing anything at all. It has EVERYTHING to do with treating the person across from you the way YOU would want to be treated.

Yes....the Golden Rule.

A concept that has been completely forgotten in the year 2005. And I suspect it won't come back anytime soon.

[hyperactive]

You have to understand my belief system. I believe that if you treat others badly, and you live your life just to cheat at every turn, steal at every turn, and lie at every turn, then you should be sent to somewhere like hell when you're all done.

It's called "punishment".

Most of the people that are opposed to me in this concept are those that cheat at every turn, steal at every turn, and lie at every turn.

It has nothing to do with fearing anything at all. It has EVERYTHING to do with treating the person across from you the way YOU would want to be treated.

ah yes, the concept of justice. chimpanzees have the same concept of justice as humans.

but just to give you a counter-example: i do not lie, cheat, or steal (or a large variety of other actions) and i do not believe in punishment at all.

[+Sherapy]

Medic that is so not true, maybe you are a high qualitychristian but I have yet to meet a Christian that doesn't lie cheat or steal,

They lie to themselves about who they are, they cheat themselves of self esteem because they beleive they are less than, You cheat alot of us of a better world by insisting your way is the only way.. When you beleive that you are less than you do things that are less than!!!! the majority of people that condone and support killing are religious , I'm not trying to be mean, The nature of religion is Fear and control , I'm not religious at all I don't beleive in Hell I don't beleive in rules and regulations are needed for me to be a good person, I just am thats it , no threats no b.s. just I take pride in being a good person I'm not trying to win God's favor or aproval or being the chosen one I have reverence for life and the things in it no one needs to tell me to be this way, Why do you need a religious system to tell you to be a good person, Because that religion has convinced you you are less than and not capable of knowing right from wrong you are sinful so lots of religious people believe and behave sinfully they judge others they discriminate against races sexual differences they say this is Gods word God wants this What kind of God would want that , ? What you beleive eventually becomes your behavior its as simple as that. Namaste Sheri

[MedicTJ]

WOW, I sense a LOT of hate here.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

[Septimus]

wtf this isn't a thread for arguments, back on topic!! le psh!

anyway. -_-'

it is also entirely possible that a "life form" that some would consider to be godly exists and has not even noticed mankind. a being of such scope noticing humans could be akin to you noticing a fleck of dust in the wind.

yes which also brings up the idea if...there are really, really, REALLY small "people", or any kind of life forms, living in like...atoms or something, and the atom is like their world.

Edited August 12, 2005 by Septimus

[+Sherapy]

WOW, I sense a LOT of hate here.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

785562[/snapback]

Medic the only hate that is here is the hate you sense I only speak the truth which is observable I'm sorry you feel you are hated. not my intentions.Namaste Sheri

[LarryOldtimer]

Sheri, I think that the primary thing neccessary for being a good person is simply . . . self respect. I believe in no gods at all, but in the morning I have to look in the mirror and do I see someone I would respect myself, if it weren't me, or someone I would have no use for? Since I want to respect myself, I refrain from actions which would cause me to think less of myself. No promise of heaven, no threat of any hell, just what do I think about myself. Sure works for me.

[hyperactive]

a noble approach, larry. i tend to agree with you. i also hold that it is the person that must answer to him/herself for all actions taken, thus no "punishment" of a judge or jury has any real effect. a person ultimately only answers to his/herself.

the problem for societies is that every person has a different definition of what makes one worthy. that person who you (not to single you out personally) think is a hoodlem gang-banging drugdealer may look in the mirror and be quite proud of his status in his gang, or the territory he has control over, etc, etc. Some people are quite conscious of how what they do effects others and wish not to cause harm while others take pride in the destruction they bring forth. the only way "looking in the mirror" works on a societal level is if society has a common binding, stablizing, normalizing construct. historically this has been religion. you and i both know the other side of a normalizing force though, and thus see why it needs to be counter-balanced.

fortunately we are now beginning to (potentially) pass into a new form of society that will not need to hold to longstanding stablizing constructs. knowledge and freedom will undermine ignorance and superstition.

[+Sherapy]

Sheri, I think that the primary thing neccessary for being a good person is simply . . . self respect.  I believe in no gods at all, but in the morning I have to look in the mirror and do I see someone I would respect myself, if it weren't me, or someone I would have no use for?  Since I want to respect myself, I refrain from actions which would cause me to think less of myself.  No promise of heaven, no threat of any hell, just what do I think about myself.  Sure works for me.  

785837[/snapback]

Awesome Larry I love that i don't use the mirror metaphor but I hold myself to this standard WHO AM I WHEN NOONE IS WATCHING I can B.S. anyone but do I have respect for the person I am when no one is around??? This is what works for me and I came up with this myself no doctrines no scare tactics no hell looming over me just what I described, Its interesting to me that those that aren't religious take being a good person and pursue some sort of area that is a beneifit for all of us are not religious (not to infer that religious people aren't humanitatrian) I know lots of unreligious people who really do make a difference just because thats who they are not for gain or accolades or favor or specialness, Just very humble very quiet very unassuming. I wonder how that can be without religion???

Hyper I loved your post too you made very good points and I know you are a good person by choice also. Namaste Sheri

Edited August 12, 2005 by Sheri berri

[MedicTJ]

WOW, I sense a LOT of hate here.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

785562[/snapback]

Medic the only hate that is here is the hate you sense I only speak the truth which is observable I'm sorry you feel you are hated. not my intentions.Namaste Sheri

785635[/snapback]

Take a look at your responses to my posts.

Then take a look at your reponses to other's posts.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that your reactions to me..being a Christian...are clearly different than your reactions to others.

I'm not trying to push my beliefs on you. You beleive what you want to believe. That's what makes us human. The ability to make choices.

However, the choice that one makes shouldn't ostracize them from those who have made different choices.

BUT, that's how humanity has gone from day one. And it isn't going to change.

In this world, there are cliques. It doesn't matter what you believe. If you speak out about what you believe in, you're going to be ridiculed by those who don't believe the same things that you do.

[mako]

After two tours in Vietnam, flying 428 combat missions in a low and slow Forward Air Controller Cessna 150, action in the Grenada rescue, and the action to remove Noriega from power in Panama, I think I have an inkling of what fear is. You don't have to be a Christian to know fear and to "soldier on" in spite of it. You, yourself, may not be a Christian through fear, but 98% of Christians will admit when really pressed that fear is the main factor that brought them into the religion! I think that the person who can face fear without the crutch of orgainized revealed religion has a better understanding of life than the believer!

[EmpressV]

Back on topic,

You mean to tell me that I could be a hologram? If so could I get a smaller butt please?

Off topic,

Fear of hell, fear of sin, fear of god does this sound familiar? I think I am a decent human being who helps my fellow man and cares about what happens to them. I try to be good to myself also. If you don't love yourself then how can you love or be genuine to others. I don't fear any unseen entities or some unknown place the religious call hell. The religious community needs to be aware that us godless people are just as loving and giving as they claim to be, we just don't believe as they do. Besides no matter what, we all live on this planet and we need to get along for the sake of a peaceful existance.

Edited August 12, 2005 by curiousity

[+Paranoid Android]

Ever notice guys that whenever one posts a response which is in line (or close to) your own beliefs, it's pats on back all round. "Great post" "Insightful" "Thought provoking" - other cliche's. Yet if it does not agree with our belief: "rubbish" "Fear driven" "ignorant" - any other term you care to use.......

Just a harmless observation (I'm guilty of this just as much as the next person )

Regards,

[101]

Curiousity your butt is just fine. lol.

But I never think of God as being a bored child who has nothing else to do. But a man or woman (I don't think God has a gender really) who wanted friends. God is just lonely like anybody else.

[+Sherapy]

PA I tell the truth if my truth offends you I'm sorry about that Is it possible you come into this feeling you will be crirtizied??? I'm asking you why you stand for christianity??? I ask why you beleive in a system that can be seen throughout history to cause more harm than good, I ask because to me you are a very lovely person whose spirit shines through and who is intellegent? You haven't read all the posts because if you had you would see that Hyper bacca aquatis 1 donot always agee with me, and are up front about it, I take Religion The treatment of animals the condition of the planet very seriously its no laughing matter to me, Someone once told me you will never be threatened by anothers beleifs if you are confident in your own, Again I'm not trying to make this personal its about religion not you PA Namaste Sheri

[EmpressV]

PA I tell the truth if my truth offends you I'm sorry about that  Is it possible you come into this feeling you will be crirtizied??? I'm asking you why you stand for christianity??? I ask why you beleive in a system that can be seen throughout history to cause more harm than good, I ask because to me you are a very lovely person whose spirit shines through and who is intellegent?  You haven't read all the posts because if you had you would see that Hyper bacca aquatis 1  donot always agee with me, and are up front about it, I take Religion The treatment of animals the condition of the planet very seriously its no laughing matter to me, Someone once told me you will never be threatened by anothers beleifs if you are confident in your own, Again I'm not trying to make this personal its about religion not you PA Namaste Sheri

786681[/snapback]

You go girl

[+Sherapy]

PA I tell the truth if my truth offends you I'm sorry about that  Is it possible you come into this feeling you will be crirtizied??? I'm asking you why you stand for christianity??? I ask why you beleive in a system that can be seen throughout history to cause more harm than good, I ask because to me you are a very lovely person whose spirit shines through and who is intellegent?  You haven't read all the posts because if you had you would see that Hyper bacca aquatis 1  donot always agee with me, and are up front about it, I take Religion The treatment of animals the condition of the planet very seriously its no laughing matter to me, Someone once told me you will never be threatened by anothers beleifs if you are confident in your own, Again I'm not trying to make this personal its about religion not you PA Namaste Sheri

786681[/snapback]

You go girl

786858[/snapback]

Curiousity Its nice to know I have a friend or two, Thanks Namaste Sheri

[+Paranoid Android]

No offense taken Sheri. WHere did you get that idea from?

I wasn't even singling out anyone with my previous comment. It was a generalized statement of how people respond to posts depending partly on their own ideas. As I said, I'm just as guilty of this as the next person.

As to your question, how can I defend Christianity? I do not, at least not in the way you mean it, what with the crusades and other violence and what have you. What I do do, is defend the Bible as God meant it for us, not as people have interpreted it for us, or as people have abused it in the past. I stand for a God of love who wishes us all to be children in His family, not as an insecure violent entity who demands such violence from His followers.

Does that make sense.

Regards, PA

[LarryOldtimer]

PA I tell the truth if my truth offends you I'm sorry about that  Is it possible you come into this feeling you will be crirtizied??? I'm asking you why you stand for christianity??? I ask why you beleive in a system that can be seen throughout history to cause more harm than good, I ask because to me you are a very lovely person whose spirit shines through and who is intellegent?  You haven't read all the posts because if you had you would see that Hyper bacca aquatis 1  donot always agee with me, and are up front about it, I take Religion The treatment of animals the condition of the planet very seriously its no laughing matter to me, Someone once told me you will never be threatened by anothers beleifs if you are confident in your own, Again I'm not trying to make this personal its about religion not you PA Namaste Sheri

786681[/snapback]

You go girl

786858[/snapback]

Curiousity Its nice to know I have a friend or two, Thanks Namaste Sheri

786916[/snapback]

Sheri, in my mind, you are one of the few really good people I have run across. I don't believe the same as you, obviously, but you speak as a loving person for sure. It is always interesting (and I think, fruitful) to read your posts. Thanks for being here with the rest of us.

[iaapac]

Now we revert to the Christian persecution syndrome. No one is condemning you for being a Christian, MedicTJ, much less people like Sheri, Hyper and Larry who are known for their objective and understanding posts.

I will, however, assert that while it offends you that some believe Christians believe through fear, perhaps the concept can be applied in more historic terms. Christianity grew through fear. When the armies of Constantine burned villages that would not convert, the followers did so through terror, not faith.

When good Christian Conquistadors enslaved the people of Latin America and burned their priceless libraries, they gave birth to a religion founded upon fear.

When missionaries sent infected blankets to Indians who did not accept Christianity, converts were gained through fear.

If someone says that Christians believe because of fear, it has some basis in fact. No one can deny the rantings of tens of thousands of ministers and priests proclaiming that the non-converts are bound for hell or that only by "accepting Christ" can one enter heaven.

Rather than claiming persecution, defend you points with facts, wit and enthusiasm. We will respond much better to those things.