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Heaven and Hell?


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#31    101

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 03:14 PM

Drop cat you should not practice lying at all. It is not good. If you lie about one thing to make someone not hurt the truth will eventually come out and you are a bad person. In a sense you should not try and lie to someone even if it is to spare them heartache. Just don't mention it to them at all. Don't lie.

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#32    Paranoid Android

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 03:47 PM

101 - there are times when one may need to lie because it is the "loving" thing to do.  I'm not sure if this applies to a PS2 game (I guess you gotta work that out between you and God mate), but imagine if you will that you and i and some of the others on this forum are all in a room together (in a physical sense, not just cyber tongue.gif).  You go out to the back....  A crazed gunman runs in and says "Where is 101 - I'm going to shoot her".  The truthful thing would be to say, "Oh she went out the back.  Say hi to her for me, k".  The loving thing to do would be to say she ran out the side of the house and is running away as we speak.  

While God's laws are good guide's, we must always remember that God's law is not based on the legalistic following of rules (Jesus specifically spoke out against the Pharisees for just such legalistic thinking), but on the two greatest commandments:  Love god, love one another.  In all things, ask yourself "Is it loving to do (insert action here)"  If you follow this rule, you can't really go wrong.....

But to answer the original post, the problem with this question is that it will always raise "what if's".  What about the tribesman who lives in Africa and never hears of God?  What about the child who dies before having a chance to repent?  What about those who are good moral people.  What if i believe in God but not the God of the Bible.  What if I believe in Jesus, but not as the Son of God.  What if, what if what if!

I guess these questions will never be answered satisfactorily for all (at least not in this life).  I can honestly say I do not know what will happen to those that haven't heard of Jesus, or those that believe in a creator, but not Jesus.  Nor can i honestly say I know what these places commonly refered to as "heaven" and "hell" will be like.  The Bible, which I base my beliefs in, only speak of two kinds of people - those who accept Jesus, and those who reject him.  I cannot speak for any specific individual though.  To do so would be highly judgemental.  Only God knows the hearts of people.  

But again, i'm rambling (I seem to be doing this a lot lately - sorry).  I hope this post makes sense.

Regards, PA

Edited by Paranoid Android, 19 August 2005 - 03:50 PM.

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#33    bacca

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 11:25 PM

what would a child have to repent?

I'm reading all sorts of things don't lie it's not good  rofl.gif  come on everyone lies and no matter how hard you try it's going to happen. Your pulled over speeding and look at your speed at say 74 in a 55 the cop asks you how fast your going are you going to say why yes i was going 74 sir? no you're probably going to say no sir i don't which is fine it's self preservation what ever. Part of this life is being able to live it and i ready someone say that society has made them poor or what ever I almost fell over reading that.....NO ONE makes  you poor, if you want money get a job if you want more money get two....if you can't get a job because of education well go get one it really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out no one makes you do anything.....not even play the victim.....but anyway aside from my rant there why would any of you want to follow a god that so obviously has so many conditions to you achieving anything? it's like training a dog with treats except the dog would have to be able to train other dogs before he'd ever get a treat it's rather insane really.....all you have to worry about is this life i really think to many people spend to much of it worrying about the next one....

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#34    AbsintheWolf

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 03:30 AM

[quote=Biggus,Aug 17 2005, 04:01 PM]

It doesn't matter who you are, where you are from, your skin colour, height or anything else. The only thing which counts is your actions on Earth. Buddhists and Muslims who have made a conscious decision to turn their back on God have made that decision, and will be judged accordingly. People who are born into backgrounds where they may be co-erced into joining other religions will be judged less rigerously. People born into predominantly Christian society can expect to be judged harshest of all, by virtue of having every opportunity to become acquainted with God, but rejecting Him at every turn.



So, you're basically saying that the only religion or God to believe in is Christianity or the Christion God??

Just because people believe in a different God/religion, doesn't mean the are going to hell.

Who's to say that Christianity is the only right religion?  

There were many religions and beliefs before Jesus and Christianity were born, so did all of those people go to hell too?

You can believe in God, and have a relationship with Him, and not adhere to any specific religion...why must some of you be so convinced that your way is the ONLY way??


#35    hyperactive

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 03:50 AM

QUOTE
You can believe in God, and have a relationship with Him, and not adhere to any specific religion...why must some of you be so convinced that your way is the ONLY way??


to question the lies that bind your world together is to risk bringing the illusion to an end.


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#36    antiaging

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 04:41 AM

QUOTE(Dragonic Darkness @ Aug 16 2005, 11:37 AM)
What exactly is required to be admitted into the gates of heaven? MUST you have a religion (I do'nt have a concrete religion (my moms Greek orthodox and my dads catholic or christian))? Must you have been a good person throughout your life? Must you have lived a life of purity? A life of worship? And does everyone else get sent into hell?

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How to get saved and be a real Christian
Really believe that Jesus is the Lord, that He is the Son of God, and that He died to pay for your sins so that you can be forgiven. Really believe He rose from the dead. This makes you a believer. After you believe, ask Jesus to save your soul and ask God to forgive your sins. Repent; that means try to not sin, and try to obey  nine of the ten commandments. [The one about keeping holy the sabbath day was changed in the New Testament by what Jesus said about it.] Try to not do anything that the New Testament calls a sin.
Avoid drunkeness, fornication, idolatry, adultery, avoid being effeminate, avoid abusing yourself with mankind, (that means avoid homosexual acts), also avoid reviling and extortion; 1Corinthians 6:9 says that those who do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Try to avoid eating blood or strangled animals or idol sacrifices.                                                                                                                                                                   If you do sin, tell God you did it and ask Him to forgive you and try again to not sin. As time goes by you will learn to live a holier life, but ask God to forgive you everytime you sin. Now you are a real Christian and would go to heaven if you died and did not turn back into sin and away from God. You should now get baptized as a believer if you have the opportunity to do so, however if you died, you would still go to heaven even if you could not get baptized. But to stay a real Christian, and be Spiritually strong so that you do not backslide, you should do the following things: Read the New Testament to find out what God wants you to do; it is good to continue to reread it. The Old Testament can also teach you important things, but your Christian teachings are in the New Testament. (The King James is the version that is completely accurate; other versions have been altered and are less accurate.) Pray regularly asking God to give you what you need and asking Him to explain to you what the New Testament means before you read it. Also pray asking God to show you what He wants you to do, and to lead you to do His will, in the things that happen in your life. Jesus said to ask God the Father for things in His name, so when you pray, end your prayer by saying something like, "In Jesus name, Amen". Find a church where the Bible is preached and where the words of the Bible are the final authority for what that church believes and attend this church. You can ask God, in the name of Jesus to lead you to attend the church that He wants you to attend. Obey God’s command in the Bible to be baptized after you are a true believer; baptism in the Bible is being pushed all the way under the water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Now you are a real Christian and growing in the ways of the Lord. Obey the New Testament and try to lead others to accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. When you become a real Christian, by repenting and asking Jesus to save your soul, and asking God to forgive your sins, the Holy Spirit of God comes to live inside of you and he leads you into the truth and changes your personality to take on the qualities of love, joy, peace,  longsuffering, gentleness,   goodness, faith, meekness and temperance. These are the qualities that the Holy Spirit of God puts in a person when he becomes a real Christian and is born again of the Spirit,  Galatians 5:22,23 and John 3:3,6. Also, using faith, the Christian is taught, in the New Testament, how to be used by God to work miracles such as praying for people to be healed and praying for other things and then seeing it really happen by God’s power.
Also the New Testament talks about praying to receive what is called the baptism in the Holy Spirit, which allows the Christian to further manifest God’s miracle power; Acts 8:15-17,  1Corinthians 12:7-11.
Jesus said, Mark 16:15,16 ;  Go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.
John 14:6 Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by Me.
Jesus stated that the only way to go to heaven and be with God is by Jesus. Christianity is the only true way to go to heaven and avoid being damned in hell.










#37    Paranoid Android

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 06:32 AM

Just a little commentary on your post antiaging.

The Sabbath:  We must still keep the Sabbath, just not in the way that the Ten Commandments say.  We look forward to an eternal "Sabbath Rest" in heaven (cf. Hebrews 4).  So yeah, we still keep all ten commandments, just not in exactly the same way as the Old Testament - for the record, the apostles kept the Sabbath to their dying day (as far as we know).  So who knows.  Perhaps we are wrong and we should still keep Saturday.  Hmm.

Regards, PA



Edited by Paranoid Android, 20 August 2005 - 06:34 AM.

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#38    antiaging

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 10:02 PM

QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Aug 20 2005, 12:32 AM)
Just a little commentary on your post antiaging.

The Sabbath:  We must still keep the Sabbath, just not in the way that the Ten Commandments say.  We look forward to an eternal "Sabbath Rest" in heaven (cf. Hebrews 4).  So yeah, we still keep all ten commandments, just not in exactly the same way as the Old Testament - for the record, the apostles kept the Sabbath to their dying day (as far as we know).  So who knows.  Perhaps we are wrong and we should still keep Saturday.  Hmm.

Regards, PA

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Let the scriptures show you that the sabbath law is not required in the New Testament. Both Jesus and Paul showed it is not required.

The requirement of resting on the Sabbath day has been removed by what Jesus said about the Sabbath. But if your conscience tells you that you should observe it then observe it.
Matthew 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift [it] out?
Matthew 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Colossians 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.
Romans 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Romans 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Romans 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
9 of the 10 commandments must still be obeyed in the New Covenant.

You see Collosians 2:16 and Romans  14:5?
Be fully persuaded in your own mind.
The sabbath law about not doing servile work on Saturday, is not required in the New Testament. From what Jesus said, it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath; anything that it is allright to do on any other day of the week, it is allright to do on the Sabbath.

[Note: The sabbath law, as it was in the old testament, did not mean go to church. It meant don't do servile work on Saturday and that is all it meant.]

Edited by antiaging, 20 August 2005 - 10:05 PM.





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