[The Raven]

After watching a bit of National News this morning [Face the Nation is a great show] I was inspired to get your opinions on the current energy problems.

Oil prices are going through the roof [Yes, the supreme grade gas is selling for about 3.40 USD in some places] and have been for awhile now, especially since the United States has been in Iraq, and China's demands swell. Gas prices are reaching $3 a gallon in most places, from less than 2.40 in my area just 8 days ago.

It's quite likely that the prices are not going to go down as the world demand increases. Since there is only so much oil in the Earth, once the demand increases enough and all the oil is gone, all the oil is gone, for millions of years.

Pollution is also a problem. With more people using oil, not only the prices go up, but the pollution does to. Oil is a terrible pollutant to our planet, and is one of the nice guys responsible for the gaping holes in our ozone layer. [Antarctica to name one]

Do you think the world is doing enough to promote cleaner, alternative energy sources? We have made breakthroughs with hydrogen but it just seems like the funding and initiative isn't there.

What do you think about the rising oil prices? When winter comes around for the temperate regions, not only are we going to be paying outrageous and constantly elevating prices for gasoline and, but heating oil is also going to break the bank.

Finally, what do you think on the current state of pollutants on the planet? As more oil is used, more pollution is created. Since China currently has "Dirty" cars [Cars that don't meet standards for nations like the US and UK because they are not clean at all] and is a booming nation just seeing a bit of light with the strong industrial side, pollution increases.

Is there an end in sight? Tell me your opinions/answers to the three questions in bold.

[dmgspycat]

I hear a lot about peak oil lately and it has been talked about for about 20 years now...I dont know if we are there yet. I am more suspicious of Bush doing so bad as President that the only way the economy is still working is because of the rising gas prices. In other words the worse Bush does the higher the prices. You think the might of the real America would stand to get squeazed by some puny third world country like Saudi Arabia? Never...they would go down like all the rest. Im not being arrogant I am just looking at our past record. Bush and the energy cartels are making out pretty good because of our present policy. As a matter of fact...George Bush has made his whole living off of misery...

Your other question...about pollution. Yes...our planet is dying. Ive seen the reports and the news about events like coral reefs throughout the world dying en masse. From Florida to the Great BArrier Reef. Ive seen the haze get steadily worse from 1998 to the present. Our atmosphere is getting thinner, the troposphere is heating up, glaciers are dissappearing but most alarming is our permafrost is starting to melt. That, geoligists say is when the sh$t is really going to hit the fan. I seriously doubt I will live to a ripe old age. I think we are staring at a great change right in the face...but this is where the worlds most powerful nations have led us to, they made the policies, they made their wars, they killed leaders of positive change...they are the ones that could have avoided our present condition but we see now that they are mad profit driven animals that care not for peace or the environment.
People need to stand up always for the environment . But we killed it to protect "our way of life". This country is sick like all other industrialised nations and we will all pay a great price together for it.

[saladins follower]

ya at iraq its a nickel per gallon

[ROGER]

I don't have the link anymore but Yahoo News had an article about a guy that up-graded his own Hybrid car by adding the New Lithium Ion Batterys, and a Charging unit to plug it in a night. Using both systems he got 250 miles per Gal. and the nightly recharge cost 25 cent a night.

But the big four car manufacturers cant do it? Yes they can but like all the others in power in this country, they don't want us to have them. Some small companies are starting up to up grade your car for you, but this can not be done by the average working Joe.

[Dowdy]

It's quite likely that the prices are not going to go down as the world demand increases. Since there is only so much oil in the Earth, once the demand increases enough and all the oil is gone, all the oil is gone, for millions of years.

Price goes up if demand goes up and with our current methods, oil can't run out. As i said in another thread - we are only able to extrace 60% of oil from a field, so there is still 40% left that we can't get out until we come up with better technology. And besides new oil field are being discovered all the time.

[girty1600]

Ride a bike!

[wunarmdscissor]

uff dont worry , remeber gorgie boyo says threre is no prblem with natural resources, no climate change, no pollution ergo no kyoto.


we're all gonna be just fine an dandy.

rest you weary eyes.

[The Raven]

Price goes up if demand goes up and with our current methods, oil can't run out. As i said in another thread - we are only able to extrace 60% of oil from a field, so there is still 40% left that we can't get out until we come up with better technology. And besides new oil field are being discovered all the time.

You're kidding, right? Oil is not infinite. There is only a certain amount of oil on the planet, and once that is gone, there is no more. Zip. Zilch. NONE.

New oil fields being discovered all the time, maybe. How many national parks do we have to destroy to get this toxic black liquid? How many animals do we have to kill, how many wetlands do we have to destroy, how much more pollution do we have to put into our planet before we realize that we are killing ourselves and everything else alive?

Scientists have the initiative to solve these problems, but in most cases, funding is dead. We're still using rockets to bring people into space, where as if we had actually tried to improve ourselves with money and will power, it is very likely we would have safer, faster, cheaper, and more efficient spacecraft years ago instead of just today experimenting with the solar sail, for example.

This is the same problem with fuel. We've been using oil as a base for I don't know, atleast 100 years? 100 years ago the year was 1905 and I'm sure you are familiar with the technology then compared to today. One of the things that hasn't changed is our fuel. We are still using fossil fuels, we are still making utterly ridiculous amounts of pollution, and yet no one is doing anything about it. We have the power to change, our scientists have the knowledge and initiative to make change, but our leaders and big powerful countries are too stubborn, selfish, greedy, blind, or numb to do anything about it. [Or all of them]

People somehow have their mind set that nature is invincible, animals will always have a safe home, and our planet isn't affected by pollution. This is all wrong, nothing on our planet is infinite. This includes water, a vital, life giving resource about every American takes for granted.

When the oil starts running dry, and then the world's reserves begin to, it will be your fault for not recognizing the fragile balance and trying to do something about it, even just conserve a little bit for a start. We have great technology, but we're using it all the wrong way.

On a lighter note, I highly agree with dmgspycat

This post has been edited by The Raven: 22 August 2005 - 06:53 PM

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

There more oil in shale in Utah then in all of Saudi Arabia. The extraction process is more expensive but it is there. I believe we need to use multiple fuel sources. We could easily phase out oil over the next 30 years, by using alternate sources, but we need to start now and I don't want to hear that the oil companies are keeping new energy sources from the public. They are looking as well because they have to sell something else when the oil runs out.

This post has been edited by ericraven2003: 22 August 2005 - 07:13 PM

[Celumnaz]

Do you think the world is doing enough to promote cleaner, alternative energy sources?

Yes.

What do you think about the rising oil prices?

Not much. Isn't the end of the world.

Finally, what do you think on the current state of pollutants on the planet?

that no matter how hard we Try, we'll never be able to out do nature's own pollution. The holes open, and they close, and it wasn't because some lawyer came up with a peice of legislation. Turns out it wasn't due to freeon, or aresol either.

Is there an end in sight? Tell me your opinions/answers to the three questions in bold.

No. Not as long as there are people to scare.

Also disagree that oil is a limited fossil fuel.

This is about when the "peaceful" "open-minded" eliteists show me how much they value my free speech and everyone's opinion is valid.

[The Raven]

Also disagree that oil is a limited fossil fuel. 

I am curious, give me atleast 3 good (And hopefully scientific) reasons why Oil is unlimited.

[Celumnaz]

because I think the earth keeps creating it, why would I need any other reasons?

Edit: I subscribe to the "abiogenic origin of oil" camp, not agree with Everything they say, but for the most part that's what I think... won't run out.

This post has been edited by Celumnaz: 22 August 2005 - 08:07 PM

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

I believe there is a possiblity that the earth keepts creating it in different ways. There is a therory on it . I will try to find it.

[Celumnaz]

here's one:
http://en.wikipedia....etroleum_origin

Abiogenic petroleum origin
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
"The capital fact to note is that petroleum was born in the depths of the Earth, and it is only there that we must seek its origin." (D. Mendeleev, 1877)
The theory of abiogenic petroleum origin states that petroleum (or crude oil) is primarily created from non-biological sources of hydrocarbons located deep in the crust of the Earth. The theory stands in contrast to the more widely held conventional view that petroleum is created from the remains of ancient living matter. The constituent precursors of petroleum (mainly methane) are commonplace and it is possible that appropriate conditions exist for hydrocarbons to be formed deep within the Earth.

Although this theory is supported by a large minority of geologists in Russia, where it was intensively developed in the 1950s and 1960s, it has only recently begun to receive attention in the West, where the biogenic theory is still believed by the vast majority of petroleum geologists. Planetary scientist Thomas Gold was one of the abiogenic theory's greatest proponents in recent years.[1] Although it was originally denied that abiogenic hydrocarbons exist at all on earth, this is now accepted by Western geologists. The orthodox position now is that while abiogenic hydrocarbons exist, they are not produced in commercially significant quantities, so that essentially all hydrocarbons that are extracted for use as fuel or raw materials would be biogenic.

The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of petroleum, based on thermodynamic calculations, contends that petroleum is inorganic and formed at high pressures and temperature in the earth's mantle. This theory is said to be supported by experimental studies conducted by Dr J.F. Kenney and other Russian scientists. Their conclusions about petroleum origin are also said to vindicate the theories propounded by the geologist Nikolai Kudryavtsev.

A variation of the abiogenic theory includes alteration by microbes similar to those which form the basis of the ecology around deep hydrothermal vents.

One prediction of most abiogenic theories is that other planets of the solar system or their moons have large petroleum oceans, either from hydrocarbons present at the formation of the solar system, or subsequent chemical reactions.

That this theory is receiving increasing attention from Western geologists is indicated by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists having scheduled a conference [2] to meet in Vienna in July 2004 entitled "Origin of Petroleum—Biogenic and/or Abiogenic and Its Significance in Hydrocarbon Exploration and Production". The conference had to be canceled, however, due to financial considerations. Instead, AAPG held a one-day session on the topic at the June 2005 annual meeting in Calgary, Alberta. [3]

[Dando Kast]

The Eliica could greatly help the pollution problem......... I started a thread on it here:

Eliica