34 replies to this topic

[FreyKade]

yes bizzaro

[Space Moose]

[Bizarro]

alright, Spacemoose.  i see you are totally immune to my argument.  you are such a solid capitalist that you cannot see where it fails.  it fails in regards to culture and intellectual property.  there is no freaking way that someone can own an idea.  capitalism tells you they can, but that is just a farce.

maybe you choose to let people tell you they own the right to your mind?  good for you.  

i never said i downloaded music to 'save money'.  its not about money to me.  its about freedom of information.  i support musicians that i like.  i buy their merchandise and even their cds.  a lot of bands i like i first learned about by listening to 'illegal' MP3s.  thus, they make more money from me because of file sharing.  

[Anirbas]

YEAH! Thats what I wanted to say lol! Seriously though - they are asking us to be fair and not "rip them off" what the hell do they think they are doing to us? Giving us a nice discount on their product? They are the ones sitting up in the big cushy offices smoking Cuban cigars! They can kiss my ass cause even if they would bring suit agianst me and win I aint gonna pay it I aint goin to jail (got tons of woods here) and I will download music til I am blue in the face!

[Space Moose]

It does not matter what you think about intellectual property rights, your ideals aren't reality.  You need to operate within the capitalist system, no matter how much you like or dislike it.  You will not change it, no matter how many letters you write nor how long you wait.  Accept it.

You ask an intersting quetion however:

[Anirbas]

Okay I am gonna make this short, sweet, and to the point for those of us that don't need a damned lecture! First, if you subscribe to a downloadable music service it is legal. That is - pay for it. Okay - so paying for it makes it legal - got that. KAZAAA IS FREAKIN LEGAL THEN! Here let me give you a quote straight from their Q&A page

[Anirbas]

Oh and something else - if Kazaa is payed for then you own the song! If you are subscribing to a service to download music then you are buying the song and you can record it.

[FreyKade]

  anirbas, i think the "payed for" part refers to the program kazaa. the program is payed for by advertisers so you dont need to pay. unless you use kazaa lite which has no adverts. so if you have to pay to use kazaa, it is you being ripped off. as for the music. it is stored on individual computers/servers. kazaa is just a means of finding and geting these files. i dont think anywhere it says that if you use kazaa then copywrited material is legal when downloaded. an example:


i have bought a cd and have copied the music to my hard drive (as far as i know this is legal as long as you have the origonal cd.). someone uses kazza (payed for by advertisers) to get my legally owned music because i own it. files are downloaded via kazaa, but the person who has downloaded it doesnt own an origional copy. therefore is illegal.


kazza end user agreement:

You agree not to use the Software to:

[FreyKade]

oh and, the only way i can see that fikles are paid for by kazaa, is if it is on their servers and they pay the music idustry. this would mean that kazaa would not be free as the adverts would not be able to raise enough revenue to pay for these costs.

with having no illegal and copyrighted files on kazaa servers they can claim that they are not doing anything illegal. instead they ask for users to share off their hard drives. this is the same for the majority of peer to peer software and their developers.

[Bizarro]

im sorry, Spacemoose.  i cannot agree with you at all.  no one should have the right to sue someone based on profits that 'may' have been lost.  we might start being sued for all kinds of things if that precedent is set.  you have no idea if that little girl downloaded that music because she didn't want to pay for it.  she also didn't download ANY PROPERTY of anyone.  she downloaded a copy of that property.  there is no loss of physical production costs because those cds still exist and can be sold.  she is not selling her MP3s and is not making any money from them.  this is not stealing anything!  

let me give you an example:  let's say i like looking at the Mona Lisa.  its a beautiful little painting.  i take a picture of it and it reproduces the exact quality of viewing the actual painting.  did i steal the Mona Lisa from the frame?  doesn't the Mona Lisa still exist?  sure, i may not go to the museum to look at it as often because i have a good copy but i did not steal the Mona Lisa!  the museum cannot sue me because i have a copy of the Mona Lisa and don't come to the museum as often.  will this discourage artists?  no.  artists will still be inspired because fame and culture are very powerful forces.  fame alone can produce wealth for a successful artist.  is fame lost when someone copies your painting?  no.  its increased and spread to even more people than would have come to the museum to begin with.  this is the same exact issue with downloading MP3's.  artists will just have to adjust to selling less CDs by doing more concerts or selling merchandise instead, but their appeal is not being reduced at all.  their potential for wealth is INCREASED through file sharing.  what we are talking about here is a revolution in freedom of information, not stealing.  we cannot hold onto the old ways because they hinder our freedom as individuals.  when someone threatens to sue you because you make a copy of music, something is terribly wrong.  that is abuse of the law.  we cannot live in a society that breathes down our necks and threatens our children for doing things totally natural to them.  they grew up with the freedom to access all this culture and they see its benefits, whereas you are blind to them.  capitalism is based on freedom of thoughts and ideas flowing freely and the system correcting itself by occasionally destroying obsolete methods of business.  if anything, you are not a capitalist because you are unable to comprehend this.  you are more like a communist because you believe that laws can regulate the flow of information.  laws cannot stop progress and file sharing will continue.  business will just have to adapt to meet the changing norms of the people.  we cannot start some Napster Gulag where we send families and children who violate your laws, Spacemoose.  im sorry, but maybe you accept abuse of law but i refuse to accept it.  you endorse punishments for people based on purely intellectual concepts and that is a slippery slope, my friend.  when you allow someone the right to punish someone else based on pure conjecture than we all become potential criminals.  that's a world i don't want to live in.

[Blood Angel]

This is turning into a conspiracy, maybe someone somewhere will conect this to the NWO LOL

[Anirbas]

Ah well - I do see your point sklara (nice avatar btw) so let's say I subscribed to an actual service that lets you download music and pay for it - is that legal to burn or not - because here is my train of thought i can go and buy a cd with songs i don't want on it or i can make my own and pay for each song on it - thats all i do is mix my own cd's i really don't think i should be charged an arm and a leg to do so - and i think as long as i am not selling it to other people which is the way i have interpreted the copyright law as long as i can remember knowing there was one it shoul dbe legal  

[Space Moose]

[FreyKade]

stop arguning, meet up and have an old fasioned duel......use any weapons from axes to hammers and swords and daggers. mmmmm lets see, you get a swing at the oponet if you can say a valid argument....let the duel comence

[TheOracle]

In Australia it is actually illegal to make a copy (Back-up or otherwise) of any cd, dvd, video, whatever that you own.

Just thought you guy's might like to know that.