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Yom Kippur - The Atonement


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#1    Ashley-Star*Child

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 02:59 PM

Ok whose joining me? No, seriously those of you who are Christian, what would you say to doing one of the very same fasts Jesus no doubt did (He DID practice Judiasm you know)? Think about it.

It begins with making right with everyone you've wronged, and on the actual day which goes for 25 hours from Sunset October 12th to 13th Sunset (plus one hour making it 25) you cannot eat, nor drink (no, not even water) nor wash. Basically you cannot enter ANYTHING in your mouth nor let ointments or even water touch you. Not even medications (unless it's very serious or life threatening). You also can't smoke (this is debatable, and even though I'm a heavy smoker I don't smoke for those 25 hours. It's HELL, it's not the food that bugs me, it's the thirst and not being able to smoke, I go to near collapse and feel like the living dead). You probably should wear white if you can. I'm not saying it's easy, far from it, but the point of it to to atone for your sins from the past year (or, your whole life if you've never done it) to start the year afresh.


To learn more about this go here:

http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday4.htm

It says there you have to go to the synangogue. I don't and it's not in my opinion necessary, just pray.

And no, no one sends a goat out into the wilderness to Azazel as a 'scapegoat' anymore. tongue.gif


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#2    zandore

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 03:15 PM

I dated a Jewish lady a few year ago and learned a little of your faith Ash. I found my self more at ease with Judaism then I did with Christianity. Coming from me I hope that means a little at least.

Shalom

Edited by zandore, 30 September 2005 - 03:16 PM.

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education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary.
Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear
of punishment and hope of reward after death."

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#3    Super Pancake

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 03:20 PM

Does it really matter? Your sins are forgiven if you ask Jesus to forgive your sins right?


#4    Ashley-Star*Child

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 03:38 PM

Well, thank you for sharing that Zanodore. original.gif As probably everyone on here knows I was raised Catholic and started practicing Judaism with my family at 13 but incorporated the two (i.e. I still believe in Jesus, Mary etc). I too honestly felt more at ease with Judaism (besides the Jesus conflict), which is why I'm still practicing it today.

SuperPancake,

No, and No. This idea that instant atonement is recieved the minute you get 'saved' is completely false. Everyone still incurs judgement (even while you're still alive, it's not just in death). Like I've said before prior to Jesus everyone went to either Sheol/hell and after 7 years one year in each level, got reincarnated. No one bar prophets entered Heaven (prophets because they had, direct communication with God). Jesus sacrified Himself for the sins of those past getting them, ALL OF THEM out of hell and finally into Heaven and allowing the chance for future generations to even enter into Heaven, thereby literally being the 'Doorway to Heaven' as He said.

Jesus Himself did like I said Jewish fasts and the Atonement still stands.


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#5    Super Pancake

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 03:45 PM

Quote


No, and No. This idea that instant atonement is recieved the minute you get 'saved' is completely false.

Jesus Himself did like I said Jewish fasts and the Atonement still stands.

Thanks for clearing that up!


#6    TheEssenceofExcellence

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 08:38 AM

I'll do it with you Ashley.

I just have two questions about the fast:  1.  I know you said your not even supposed to touch water, but if I go to the bath room is it okay to wash my hands?  and 2.  Jesus said while he was on Earth that those that follow him should shower and clean when they fast; he said something along the lines of heathens or other people who want praise for doing religious things keep themselves in dirtiness to show that they've fasted but his followers should remain clean and go about their daily routine while they fast so no one even notices they're fasting......what i'm asking is, what do you have to say about that in regards to Yom Kippur?

I'm gonna differ to what ever your opinion is since I consider you the token Bible expert around here, I'll do what you think we should do regarding my two questions, but I do need them answered.  Thanks...

Ignatius to the Magnesians: "It is therefore fitting, that we should not only be called Christians, but be so.

#7    TheEssenceofExcellence

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 08:42 AM

oh yeah and one other question:  What is the official hour of sunset on Oct 12th?

Ignatius to the Magnesians: "It is therefore fitting, that we should not only be called Christians, but be so.

#8    GIDEON MAGE

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 12:30 AM

not sure where ashley gets the idea you may not bathe; as long as you don't accidentally drink some water, it is fine.  white is appropriate, and, also-very important, you may not wear animal skins, including leather shoes.  so break out the sneakers.  if it would injure your health, then it would be a sin to fast.  thus, to fast with a health problem like that would violate "pekuach nefesh", which means, you should always save a life.  there are only three laws you are forbidden to violate for pekuach nefesh.i am a diabetic, so i am forbidden.  what i do instead is on my own, not for another, my answer, but i don't eat red meat that day, and don't work.  the smoking prohibition is because full sabbath rules are in effect.  don't work, don't write, light fires, etc.  contrary to christian propaganda, you may ask god for forgiveness any day of the year.  It is just because a special "window" to god, if you will, opens on Yom Kippur.  Yeshu himself is noted celebrating all the holidays, even Hannukah, which was barely 200 years at his time and thus, very new.

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#9    Ashley-Star*Child

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 12:20 PM

thumbsup.gif That's great TheEssenceofExcellence!

The idea not to bathe is for traditionalist Judaism which comes from the Talmud. I personally find that part very irritating as I'm what could be termed a 'chronic hand washer' lol....but if you feel that it's ok to do so then do. I think what Jesus was trying to get at is that by not washing they were 'showing off' that they were fasting which wasn't what the intent of it, which in the context of what He said about recieving praise for fasting, outward signs of doing so should be avoided.

The official hour of sunset depends on where you live (I take it from the Weather Channel lol) but traditionally it's when the sun first sets at least 3 stars are visible.

Quote

since I consider you the token Bible expert around here


Thank you original.gif

Gideon,

Like I just finished saying it came from the Talmud. Not wearing leather etc are in the link, I was just giving a general guideline of what it was about. While it's true that you can ask for fogiveness any day of the year, Atonement is the one day of the year where you can begin again. This is the actual annual day of judgement. Also I did advise that if there is a risk to your health not to fast.

I have no idea where this came from:

Quote

contrary to christian propaganda, you may ask god for forgiveness any day of the year


Christian's don't have any date for judgement, this is a Jewish day, something that got lost in Christianity.

Edited by Ashley-Star*Child, 03 October 2005 - 12:24 PM.


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#10    leo_lunar_tick

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 02:30 PM

deleted ....wrong place ....sorry

Edited by leo_lunar_tick, 03 October 2005 - 03:05 PM.

a fool cannot reason , a bigot will not , and a coward dare not .

#11    zandore

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 02:36 PM

Leo this is not the section for debating.

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy,
education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary.
Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear
of punishment and hope of reward after death."

Albert Einstein


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#12    leo_lunar_tick

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 03:06 PM

Quote


Leo this is not the section for debating.



thanx 4 that ...fixed it !!!

a fool cannot reason , a bigot will not , and a coward dare not .

#13    zandore

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 07:55 PM

Leo
Believers had to have a place to go from us nonbelievers. This is there place/section thumbsup.gif

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy,
education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary.
Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear
of punishment and hope of reward after death."

Albert Einstein


Survey Says....


#14    Edith

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 01:05 PM

Quote


Ok whose joining me? No, seriously those of you who are Christian, what would you say to doing one of the very same fasts Jesus no doubt did (He DID practice Judiasm you know)? Think about it.

I thought about it (already months ago) and I'm in! Great to see that there are more christians who do this. It would be great to share our experiences on the day after.

Quote

It begins with making right with everyone you've wronged, and on the actual day which goes for 25 hours from Sunset October 12th to 13th Sunset (plus one hour making it 25) you cannot eat, nor drink (no, not even water) nor wash. Basically you cannot enter ANYTHING in your mouth nor let ointments or even water touch you. Not even medications (unless it's very serious or life threatening). You also can't smoke (this is debatable, and even though I'm a heavy smoker I don't smoke for those 25 hours. It's HELL, it's not the food that bugs me, it's the thirst and not being able to smoke, I go to near collapse and feel like the living dead). You probably should wear white if you can. I'm not saying it's easy, far from it, but the point of it to to atone for your sins from the past year (or, your whole life if you've never done it) to start the year afresh.

I've been preparing for the day in the latest weeks or so. I had some  difficult conversations with some people with whom I was having trouble. It all worked out very well. And every time I pray the our father, the part about forgiving sins is starting to live more and more.

Quote

It says there you have to go to the synangogue. I don't and it's not in my opinion necessary, just pray.

Actually, there might be a small possibility for me to go to synagogue tomorrow during the day (not tonight). But it depends on if the wife of the jewish man I know, will go, and she has cardiac problems. The fasting is very harsh for her and probably she'll stay at home. Due to safety measures it is not possible to enter the synagogue when they don't know you and this man cannot go upstairs to the women's part to introduce me. But we'll see ... I'm a catholic and tonight and in the end of the afternoon tomorrow I'll go to Mass. I've decided to take communion even though I don't drink or eat otherwise. This is one of the most important things in my belief, it brings me really close to God (and that's what this day is about, isn't it). So it is not exactly according to all the rules. Anyway, I won't use the computer, nor watch television or listen to music. Most of the day I'll be praying, meditating and reading in the bible or in the Imitation of Christ (Thomas a Kempis).

Well, just a few hours to go for me now (I'm in Europe) .. when I've returned from work at around 5.15 PM, I'll take a shower, eat (muesli, which I usually take for breakfast, because it does not contain any added salt or spices), drink plenty of water and brush my teeth. From 6.35 PM I won't eat (except for communion), drink or wash until 7.35 PM tomorrow (those hours I took from a Dutch jewish website, they probably don't match with the proper times in the States). I never smoke, but I use to drink loads of water and tea (appr. 3 liters/day), so the thirst will be most difficult to cope with. Actually, I'm thinking of all those poor people in Pakistan and India who are still in between the collapsed buildings after the earthquake and literally dying because of thirst. I think my prayer for them will become more intensive tomorrow, though what I'll face won't be ánything compared to the hell they are going through sad.gif

OK, for all people who will join: good luck, I wish you a very spiritual time and let's share our experiences over here later on!

Edited by Edith, 12 October 2005 - 01:12 PM.


#15    Ashley-Star*Child

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 12:17 AM

That's great to hear Edith original.gif (and I think Communion is ok, personally). I'm 15 hours into it where I live...and I am using the computer  blush.gif probably shouldn't be though....



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