[loveamityville]

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Hello Darkhorse:

This question seems to come up A LOT! The remake is total fiction. The original is total fiction. The house is being lived in. I saw an interview with one of the former owners of the house and they showed the inside of it. It was a beautiful home, they remodeled the inside of it. AND there was nothing supernatural or paranormal going on. It has changed hands a few times, stictly for the reason of privacy. The owners seem to have NONE, because people continue to seek the house out to get a look at it.

There were never any indians tortured, etc.... It all comes down to Butch DeFeo slaughtered his parents while high on drugs. What happened after that is not really known. There is some evidence to implicate Dawn DeFeo in the murders. Butch claims she killed the children, then he killed her in a rage over it. No demons, no voices, just a very dysfunctional family. The sad thing is, it is the victims that are being forgotten about, the children that were murdered.

A good book to read is The Night the DeFeo's Died, by Ric Osuna. Butch DeFeo himself has a web site that his current wife keeps. No one will know for sure what happened that night, I'm sure Butch will take it to his grave. One thing is for sure, Amityville was a HOAX. A man named Weber, who offered the Lutz' a book deal even confessed it was a hoax made up over several glasses of wine.

Here are some sights you may find helpful, including Ronald (Butch) DeFeo's):

http://www.amityvillemurders.com/

http://www.thenighte...articles01.html

attention amy butts
there were no drugs found in butchs system, read about it
the owners now are the wilsons and they dont go public with anything. actually he and his wife are divorced now
maybe everyone should go here
www.amityvillehorror.com

[loveamityville]

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I have seen the Warrens speak twice. The second time I had the opportunity to ask Ed about the Amityville house because I had read "the book" and the "hoax exposed" book. He became very angry and cut off my question before I could finish it, saying that the author of the hoax book was just upset because he wasn't allowed to investigate the house himself so he did it for revenge. Then he just turned away from me and wouldn't answer any other question I had.

Hoax, hoax, hoax...but to this day I hide under the covers if I happen to wake up at 3:15 am...

FOR EVERYONE SAYING IT IS A HOAX. WERE YOU THERE?? HOW DO YOU KNOW??
STEPHEN KAPLAN, A GUY THE LUTZ ASKED TO GO INTO THE HOUSE AFTER THEY FLED, CLAIMED IT WAS A HOAX. HE WAS MAD CUZ THE LUTZ READ HIS CREDENTIALS AND GOT SOMEONE ELSE TO GO IN IT.
THE WARRENS NEVER SAID IT WAS A HOAX. THEY VERY MUCH BELIEVE THE HOUSE HAD PARANORMAL ACTIVITY. I WISH ALL OF YOU PPL WOULD READ THE FACTS AND QUITL LISTENING TO BS

WWW.AMITYVILLEHORROR.COM
WWW.WARRENS.NET

THANKS AGAIN

[MagicCaster]

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FOR EVERYONE SAYING IT IS A HOAX. WERE YOU THERE?? HOW DO YOU KNOW??
STEPHEN KAPLAN, A GUY THE LUTZ ASKED TO GO INTO THE HOUSE AFTER THEY FLED, CLAIMED IT WAS A HOAX. HE WAS MAD CUZ THE LUTZ READ HIS CREDENTIALS AND GOT SOMEONE ELSE TO GO IN IT.
THE WARRENS NEVER SAID IT WAS A HOAX. THEY VERY MUCH BELIEVE THE HOUSE HAD PARANORMAL ACTIVITY. I WISH ALL OF YOU PPL WOULD READ THE FACTS AND QUITL LISTENING TO BS

WWW.AMITYVILLEHORROR.COM
WWW.WARRENS.NET

THANKS AGAIN

Been to the house definately a hoax.

[EDW74]

If it wasn't a hoax, then why is it that the current owners have lived there for the last 13-15 years and claim that nothing has ever happened while they've been there.

[ath]

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If it wasn't a hoax, then why is it that the current owners have lived there for the last 13-15 years and claim that nothing has ever happened while they've been there.

i'm not going to say i totally believe evrything i've heard about this. but i will say its possible with all the emotional "charge" from the killings and perhaps something involving George and his wife themselves that its possible something did happen. as far as the question why haven't the current owners had anything happen. well, for one thing its possible for two people in the same house to see a ghost and another not to as some are able to see them and some not to be effected. its also possible that after lutz's left and after all the items that were left in the house between them and the DeFeo's that that in effect "cleared" out the house. not saying the items were haunted....just saying that perhaps the atmosphere of the house changed without the items of the murdered people being there to always play on their minds....

[EDW74]

Just in case anyone wanted to know, there are 10, that's right count them 10 threads on Amityville. Can we please, please do a search on thread topics to see if one already exists prior to starting one? Just revive the older one with your new post/question/thoughts. Is this so hard?

Maybe one of the moderators will just merge them together. (Wink, wink)

This post has been edited by EDW74: 15 January 2006 - 11:13 AM

[amybutts]

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attention amy butts
there were no drugs found in butchs system, read about it
the owners now are the wilsons and they dont go public with anything. actually he and his wife are divorced now
maybe everyone should go here
www.amityvillehorror.com

Ummm.. yeah, he was arrested a few days AFTER the murders...It came out of his own mouth that they had been doing drugs that night. There have been too many owners of that house after the the Lutz' that said there was nothing paranormal about the house, the only reason they moved afterwards was because they couldn't get away from nosey, pesky Amityville obsessed people.

That being said, I'm not getting into a debate over something so minute.

[chrisgeo]

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Hello all.
I just rented the remake of The Amityville Horror, and there seem to be more scenes in here that I don't remember in the book or the original.

While I know the story of the Defeo's(I did a lengthy study on this for school many moons ago), this movie brought up some information about the house's past.

Do any of you know the house's past? Of 112 Ocean Avenue? Were there REALLY indians tortured there before the house was built? I thought it had been a sanitorium before, and some people said witches had lived there.

Just curious to know the true history of the house, and if anyone currently lives in it now, problem free?

I have mp3's of the Coast to Coast AM interviews with George Luts, the actual owner of the Amtyville home. Anyone who wants it, send me an e-mail. It's 3 mp3's totalling about 15 megs each so make sure your e-mail is capable of recieving that. I'll send one batch out tonight and one tomarrow night to give people enough time to read and reply to this. Put Amtyville Horror in the subject line.

djchrisgeo at hotmail dot com

[SkullFarmer]

Reviving an oldie here

For those who think that the haunting experienced by the Lutzes was a pre-meditated hoax to make money I have a few questions to pose to you.

It's a matter of record that George and Kathy Lutz married and then sold their respective homes to purchase one together. They contracted for and purchased the former DeFeo home for the sum of 80,000. In order to accomplish this, the Lutzes put up front all of the cash that they had, $24,000, in order to obtain the new mortgage for the home. These are facts that are a matter of public record.

Let's play devil's advocate for a moment. Let's say that you are a freshly married couple looking to start a life together and you have $24,000. You have a well established business, a good reputation in the area, and you want to find a nice home in which to install your new family. At what point do you think to yourself "Hmmm, I could part with this $24 grand by buying the old DeFeo home, living in it for a short amount of time, and then risk my business, my reputation, my cash and my family on telling a ghost story that most likely no one will pay attention to". ??

Does that even add up to you? Remember there was no Amityville Horror prior to the Lutzes moving in to the house.

Questions:

1). Would you take the kind of risk (detailed above) that George Lutz would have had to have taken if he had knowingly gone into this situation with the intent of making money?

2). At the end of it, Lutz not only left his cash, his business and his reputation in Amityville but all of his and his family's personal possessions. Would you gamble everything on such a whim?

3). If Lutz had gone into this knowingly, then why were his rights to the story not protected? Why did Jay Anson make millions from the book and the Lutzes make just over $230,000 (which was reduced signifigantly by legal entanglements)? Sounds like a bad deal to me.

4). How did the Lutzes pass a lie detector test? Yes it is possible to pass a lie detector test, which is why they are inadmissable as evidence. HOWEVER, it is not easy to fool the machine and the people who can do it are much rarer than the people who cannot. The police routinely use the test as a means of elimination because it is historically very accurate. How do two people telling the same story pass the test with lies? I think they believed that they were being truthful.

All in all, for this to be a hoax, the Lutzes would have had to agree to trade their lives for the possibility that a ghost story that they would tell would become popular enough to replace all that they risked. That's just the accounting side of it too. They also would have had to agree to being personally ridiculed for life and then also agree to that for their children. I just don't buy it.

I believe that the Lutzes had a paranormal experience in that house. I believe that Mary Pascarella Downey had it right when she described the house as a vortex (which explains the dormancy). I certainly don't believe in the fiction that was presented in the movies and the books but I believe that the Lutzes believe they were being honest and that they really believed the horror happened to them.

[/soapbox]

[coldethyl]

I respect your opinion and you're entitled to it, but if George and Kathy were advised by a lawyer as is now stated by the lawyer and he put down paperwork showing them how much money could be made by a hoax it wouldn't be any different than investing your money in the stock market really. Just my opinion.

[SkullFarmer]

If you mean William Weber he was Ronnie DeFeo's lawyer and he says that he was contacted by the Lutzes after their 28 days in the house. The inquiry was as to whether young DeFeo had ever had any paranormal experiences inside of 112 Ocean.

IMHO you can't really compare a stock to a ghost story. Sure there are famous ghost stories but how much money was ever made from one prior to this case? A case couldn't have been made that would convince a successful business owner to take a risk like this as there are no precedental cases in which to base an argument on. The stock market has trends and statistics to back up forecasts. A venture like this would involve one party (the Lutzes) putting up everything based on a whim. My own 'horse sense' just tells me that this wouldn't have smelled like a good deal then and it really isn't a good deal now. That the story did well is a statistical abnormality and will likely never be repeated.

Anyways, there are lots of reasons to be skeptical (as you are) and I respect your opinion as well. Just presenting my take on things!


-C

[Atheist God]

Amittyville has already been prooven to be a hoax. People who have lived there after the Kutz family have stated that they have never experienced anything paranormal. Of course people like Ed and Lorraine (phonies) will say it's because they exorcised it. Let's face it when it comes to the Lutz family they had motive and a backround story of a psychopath to work with.

Let's look at where it started.

The DeFeo family was quite disfunctional Ronald sr. (Father) was quite an abusive man often beating his wife and kids etc. Of course Butch the oldest of the kids took most of the abuse from his father and was teased at school for being fat etc. Of course as Butch got older he also got bigger and stronger displaying many of the same violent tenancies as his old man. By the time he was 17 he was kicked out of school for 'drug' use and his temper became out of control like his fathers was. Shortly after he had staged a robbery from his fathers dealership and was busted by his father and his erratic behaviour and lack of cooperation made him a prime suspect in the theft of the money he was supposed to deposit in the bank. The night of Wednsday, November 14 after everyone had gone to sleep Butch had snapped grabbing his rifle killing his parents then his brothers and sisters after that.

In conclusion to this many serial killers, sociopaths and psychopaths come from abusive dysfunctional homes. Butch just fits the description of a cold blooded sociopath who never had a positive male role model in his life.

There is nothing about this particular case to indicate anything of paranormal nature.

Of course several years later the story was glorified as a possession and the Lutz family helped contribute to this for their own gain. Stephen Kaplan was approached by Lutz on febuary 16 1976 and had asked about an investigation into paranormal activity within the house. He had also asked about a fee but Kaplan had said they charged no fee and that if it was a hoax they would find out. Lutz of course had called back and cancelled just a few days later and cancelled arrangements with Kaplan. He then had contacted the Warrens shortly after this and paid their fees to conduct an investigation. They of course claim that the house had demons until they had exorcized them. Kaplan however insists that Lutz's motives and the way he had went about things were suspicious in nature and that he had never really trusted him.

============

I conclude based on the evidence at hand that this was a hoax designed to make money through book deals, movies and likeness rights etc. No other haunted house story captivated North Americans like this one did. Of course because this is a real house people were more inclined to think that this was real. Which is what made this hoax so lucrative.

[SkullFarmer]

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Amittyville has already been prooven to be a hoax.

Who proved it? When? How can anyone prove or disprove an individual account?

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People who have lived there after the Kutz family have stated that they have never experienced anything paranormal.

This is true of every ghost story you've ever heard. Some feel it, some don't. the Lutzes were practicing transcendental meditation at the time. Maybe they were more susceptible because of it.

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Of course people like Ed and Lorraine (phonies) will say it's because they exorcised it. Let's face it when it comes to the Lutz family they had motive and a backround story of a psychopath to work with.

The Warrens never claimed to have ejected the spirit.

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Let's look at where it started...

...There is nothing about this particular case to indicate anything of paranormal nature..

No disputing the DeFeo tragedy. I do wonder what Ronnie meant though when he said that 'black hands' placed the rifle in his hands.

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Of course several years later the story was glorified as a possession and the Lutz family helped contribute to this for their own gain.

Lutzes lived in the house in late 1975. Kaplan and crew began calling it a hoax in early 1976.

Stephen Kaplan was approached by Lutz on febuary 16 1976 and had asked about an investigation into paranormal activity within the house. He had also asked about a fee but Kaplan had said they charged no fee and that if it was a hoax they would find out. Lutz of course had called back and cancelled just a few days later and cancelled arrangements with Kaplan.

Lutz was concerned with aligning himself along side a hokey charlatan who claimed to be a "Vampirologist". Back then the Warrens had much more credibility than the Kaplan did.

He then had contacted the Warrens shortly after this and paid their fees to conduct an investigation. They of course claim that the house had demons until they had exorcized them. Kaplan however insists that Lutz's motives and the way he had went about things were suspicious in nature and that he had never really trusted him..

Kaplan was looking for a meal ticket. The Warrens were also looking for a meal ticket. Mary Downey is the one to listen to in this case, in my opinion.

============

I conclude based on the evidence at hand that this was a hoax designed to make money through book deals, movies and likeness rights etc. No other haunted house story captivated North Americans like this one did. Of course because this is a real house people were more inclined to think that this was real. Which is what made this hoax so lucrative.

If it was, then how did the Lutzes know that it was going to be lucrative before putting everything they had on the line? How come the Lutzes never got rich?

The hoax for cash line of reasoning isn't.. well... reasonable.

[coldethyl]

But the Lutz family did make money on this. They might not have made millions, but they did make money. $25000.00 to $250000.00 is quite a jump.

[SkullFarmer]

They did make money, and then subsequently had to spend it to protect themselves legally. I think George Lutz says on the ghostly talk interview that they ended up with 230k and had to spend over half of that in the courtroom.

Still, they couldn't have known they would have even ended up with a penny because the book and movie didn't come out until two years after they left the property. That's a long time to have to survive without a check.

George Lutz only owned partial rights to the first book and movie, btw. He never collected anything from any of the other books and/or movies including the most recent one.

I'm no apologist for Lutz, by the way. I think that some things got embellished and he let them slide for the benefit of a buck.

There are many facts that are always seemingly brushed aside in these conversations though. Putting myself in his shoes, I wouldn't have gambled my life for a would be ghost story.