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Human origins -Asia to Africa as Homo sapien?


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#1    Piney

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 01:22 AM


  Now according to some Chinese scientists they originated in Asia and evovled from Homo erectus who migrated out of Africa first. Western scientists insist that homo erectus was an evolutionary "dead end" and all mankind evolved from homo halibus and left Africa as homo sapien. (One debate states that homo halibus was a species or form of homo erectus but that is not what this is about.)
Some forms of Asian Homo erectus, (Java man) had a particular dental trait called "shovel incisors" a tooth development that made fish eating easier by given the hominid the ability to scrape scales off of fish when eating it rather than tearing red meat. The teeth were more box shaped and had indentations in the back making them shaped like shovels.
  There are races on this world who still have this form of dentation. It is a dominate in the North American Indian, except for the eskimos and Na Dene ( Apache, Navajo, Athpathaskan) but is not present in any South American Indians. This trait is also not present in any Ethnic group in China, Japan, or Korea but it is a recessive gene among certain Southeast Asian groups and among Australian Aboriginies.
  My question is why haven't any of the experts seen this and do you think this particular form of hominid was absorbed by those ethnic groups who display this trait.
  Homo flores also displays this trait and I thought is fasinating that certain Muskogean ( Creek, Choctaw groups claim they came over on rafts as "little people" and "grew up".
  I thought about this today when an oral surgeon was asking me about my "unusual teeth.    original.gif and asked me if I wanted them filled in with a "dental epoxy " to make cleaning easier hmm.gif

  Lapi'che ni'tis

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#2    mnwolfman

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Posted 27 October 2005 - 07:33 PM

Interesting.  I am aware of the shoveling of the incisors in Native Americans in North America and some Asian populations, but I wasn't aware that the trait was also present in Homo erectus.  I must not have been paying attention back in my Human Origins class. blush.gif  This will definately cause some discussion in scientific circles.

Where, by chance, did you find this info?

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#3    darkknight

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Posted 27 October 2005 - 08:04 PM

By 1.9 million years ago, another lineage of the genus Homo emerged in Africa. This species was Homo ergaster. Traditionally, scientists have referred to this species as Homo erectus and linked this species name with a proliferation of populations across Africa, Europe, and Asia. Yet, since the first discoveries of Homo erectus, it had been noted that there were differences between the early populations of "Homo erectus" in Africa, and the later populations of Europe, Africa and Asia. Many researchers now separate the two into distinct species Homo ergaster for early African "Homo erectus", and Homo erectus for later populations mainly in Asia. Since modern humans share the same differences as H. ergaster with the Asian H. erectus, scientist consider H. ergaster as the probable ancestor of later Homo populations.


#4    Piney

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Posted 28 October 2005 - 01:17 AM

Quote


Interesting.  I am aware of the shoveling of the incisors in Native Americans in North America and some Asian populations, but I wasn't aware that the trait was also present in Homo erectus.  I must not have been paying attention back in my Human Origins class. blush.gif  This will definately cause some discussion in scientific circles.

Where, by chance, did you find this info?


I was reading a "human ancestor" website and I noticed that homo erectus had this feature but no known homo halibus or early homo sapien did and wondered why no one else noticed this fact. I have a quicktime file of java mans teeth but I can't convert it to jpg. and it is too large to post. The only college I have is forestry managment and basic biology but I am Native American and have shovel incisors and it interested me how I got them.

  Lapi'che

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#5    Piney

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Posted 28 October 2005 - 01:24 AM

Quote


By 1.9 million years ago, another lineage of the genus Homo emerged in Africa. This species was Homo ergaster. Traditionally, scientists have referred to this species as Homo erectus and linked this species name with a proliferation of populations across Africa, Europe, and Asia. Yet, since the first discoveries of Homo erectus, it had been noted that there were differences between the early populations of "Homo erectus" in Africa, and the later populations of Europe, Africa and Asia. Many researchers now separate the two into distinct species Homo ergaster for early African "Homo erectus", and Homo erectus for later populations mainly in Asia. Since modern humans share the same differences as H. ergaster with the Asian H. erectus, scientist consider H. ergaster as the probable ancestor of later Homo populations.



That is the theory right out of your textbook but the question is why do certain North American Natives and Southeast Asian Populations share traits with the earlier homo erctus and not with homo ergaster (homo halibus)? H. Ergaster does not have the shovel incisors but the Asian H. erectus does.

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#6    darkknight

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Posted 28 October 2005 - 02:47 PM

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That is the theory right out of your textbook but the question is why do certain North American Natives and Southeast Asian Populations share traits with the earlier homo erctus and not with homo ergaster (homo halibus)? H. Ergaster does not have the shovel incisors but the Asian H. erectus does.

you will find some answers for incisors at site


#7    Piney

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Posted 29 October 2005 - 09:03 PM

Quote


you will find some answers for incisors at site



  Thanks for the link. I love how certain Chinese researchers say they were their ancestors when there isn't any ethnic groups in China with those traits.


        Lapi'che

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It takes a certain amount of sophistication to live primitive. Stupid people usually don't survive...............

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