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Dinosaurs Were Warm-Blooded!


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Poll: Dinosaurs Were Warm-Blooded or cold blooded (36 member(s) have cast votes)

you decide

  1. warm blooded (25 votes [69.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 69.44%

  2. cold blooded (11 votes [30.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.56%

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#91    draconic chronicler

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Posted 28 October 2005 - 02:58 AM

This was all explained in my post on the first page.  All "lower" reptiles are cold blooded (snkes lizards turtles)

Of the living archosaurs, birds are warm blooded and crocs are cold blooded.  Dinosaurs are archosaurs too, and vary between these two Archosaurian extremes.   Crocs are more closely related to birds than any reptile, and should not be grouped with them.


#92    artymoon

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Posted 28 October 2005 - 03:10 AM

the definition of "dinosaur" is-- fossilized reptile from Mezosoic era--the key word being reptile. We know reptiles to be cold-blooded.


#93    draconic chronicler

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Posted 28 October 2005 - 12:57 PM

That may be a layman's definition, but certainly not a scientist's..  Dinosaurs are a distinct animal group which is part of the archosauria branch, in which living animals today remain the birds and crocodilians.  Other prehistoric creatures, like the great sea reptiles are not considered dinosaurs by scientists.  They are reptiles, but not archosaurs.  It is no different than calling a bird a "reptile", and scientifally it is just as incorrect to call a crocodile a reptile, since it is more "bird" than "lizard" in its physiology.


#94    darkknight

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Posted 28 October 2005 - 02:52 PM

Virtually all animals, if examined at the proper time, will appear to be 'warm-blooded' ie their internal body temperatures will be about the same. What is more important is the mechanism by which the body temperature is maintained, and in this sense the terms endothermic and ectothermic are more appropriate; an ectothermic animal relies on heat from the outside ie the environment, to maintain body temperature, whereas an endothermic animal relies on heat generated within its own body by metabolic processes, and will therefor have a higher metabolic rate. There are even more precise technical terms for processes intermediate between full endothermy and full ectothermy which will not be discussed here.

Once it was thought that all dinosaurs were cold-blooded - now many suggest that at least some were warm-blooded, which would help to explain why they became so plentiful and dominant for so long. If we examine today's fauna , we find no large land predators that are cold-blooded, except for crocodiles that occupy only one very specific ecological niche and are basically water dwellers. The same is true of the entire Cenozoic era - virtually all large predators were warm-blooded.

The reason is not difficult to find. The position of top predator is a very competitive one. The ability to control body temperature and maintain it at a constant value (ie warm-blooded) is a very large advantage. Not only does it mean that the animal is not dependent on the environmental temperature but can hunt at any time of the day (or night), or in any season, but it also means operating at maximum efficiency. All creatures, whether warm- or cold-blooded, use the same basic biochemical processes to produce energy, with the same enzymes and substrates. The chemical reactions involved generally have a particular optimal temperature. For every drop of 10 degrees C, the process will be twice as slow - hence the sluggishness of cold-blooded animals in cold environments or at night. Evolutionary theory thus demands that in any long term competitive situation, warm-blooded animals will always win over their cold-blooded competitors, and this is what the history of mammal development demonstrates. No large cold-blooded predators can develop against mammalian competition - instead they remain small and occupy ecologically specialized positions where they can hide for most of the time and only need to hunt for food occasionally when safe to do so.
There are, of course, attendant disadvantages to endothermy, not the least of which is the need for very much larger expenditure of energy to maintain elevated metabolic rates, and a commensurate increase in food requirements.

Given that mammals have such an enormous advantage, what are we to make of the Mesozoic era, when for 140 million years dinosaurs reigned supreme and few mammals grew larger than a chicken. Mammals and dinosaurs evolved together. Dinosaur ancestors ( thecodonts , particularly ornithosuchians ) and mammal ancestors ( therapsids , particularly cynodonts) were in direct competition in the late Triassic , with the therapsids initially appearing to have the upper hand. However, by the end of the Triassic the thecodonts were on top, dinosaurs assumed the roles of top predator and large herbivore , and all other roles down to the very small, which they left to the mammals and other reptiles. How did they manage to take over in the first place, and then keep the mammals subservient for so long if mammals had such a potent evolutionary advantage in being warm-blooded? The logical answer, of course, is that dinosaurs had to be warm-blooded as well! For those who believe that dinosaurs are just large reptiles this is an unacceptable view.
Given that all we have left are lifeless bones and footprints, is it possible to produce evidence in support of the warm-blooded dinosaur hypothesis? Surprisingly, perhaps, the answer is yes, although such evidence must be largely inferential .



#95    draconic chronicler

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Posted 28 October 2005 - 11:00 PM

Actually there are several instances in which large cold blooded predadors succesfully competed with mammals for millions of years, and in this respect have had a longer success rate than we humans.  The giant monitor lizard of Australia was perhaps the largest land predator after the fall of the dinosaurs and survived until about 10,000 years ago.  This may very well be the most succesful large land animal in the earth's history, since varanids were already well established at the end of the Cretaceous, though cannot compete with the aquatic crocdilians for longetivity.There was also a kind of crocodile that assumed a bipedal gait and functioned much like theropod dinosaurs for many millions of years after the dinos perished.  In the course of time it became extinct, but in the same space of time many species of  large mammalian carnivores also died out, so were not neccesarily "better".   Alligators ambush large mammalian prey such as deer and dogs sometimes quite a distance from water.  

The lack of tubucles in the nasal passages of dinos, something present in all mammals is one of the latest pieces of evidence in favor of cold blooded dinos.




#96    frogfish

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Posted 29 October 2005 - 02:10 AM

i think that they could of been warm-blooded, but ,like all debates, its not fact yet

Edited by frogfish, 29 October 2005 - 02:11 AM.

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#97    Creepy_Steve

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Posted 29 October 2005 - 11:26 PM

I am going for warm blooded...
I believe Dino's where an evolution of reptiles and had evolved into a species that looked reptilian but where warm blooded.



#98    Guest_Mr.vort_*

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 05:26 AM

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...You make up some really cornny/weak/ odd and unclear jokes...
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No way man I tink theyr vereh funneh!!! grin2.gif


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#99    Yelekiah

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 02:10 PM

TY for the pic. Another good one for my massive collection.  laugh.gif

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#100    frogfish

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 04:09 PM

where do you get these, Mr vort? you seem to have a non-stop supply original.gif

Edited by frogfish, 31 October 2005 - 04:09 PM.

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#101    haunted_andrew

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 06:24 PM

I believe that the dinosaurs were all warm blooded. Yes they all evolved from archosaurs, but crocodiles had already evolved when by the time dinosaurs existed. Crocodilians are virtually no different today than they were back then... Why? Because they had no need to evolved further, it's the same with sharks. Meanwhile, active land predators begin to evolve into warm-blooded animals. Crocodiles are adapted to moving through water, it takes less effort for them to swim than to walk, they don't NEED to expend extra energy, so they don't NEED to evolve into a warm blooded creature. Dinosaurs on the other hand exert much more energy, so they evolved the capacity to to do so. What you have to realize is that dinosaurs evolved separately from crocodiles, They may have both been archosaurs, but there are MANY differences between crocs and dinos. Futhermore, we know that dinosaurs migrated... look at all other land animals that migrate (Except for insects). They're all warm blooded, You don't see cold-blooded animals travel such great distances, mostly because they're incapable of exerting the force neccessary to do so.

believe.

#102    zandore

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 08:27 PM

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The lack of tubucles in the nasal passages of dinos, something present in all mammals is one of the latest pieces of evidence in favor of cold blooded dinos.

Since when did dinosaurs become a mammal?

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#103    Atlantis Rises

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 09:50 PM

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Crocs are more closely related to birds than any reptile, and should not be grouped with them.


Both!

Dinosaurs were first believed to be cold-blooded because they were thought to be related closely to reptiles which are cold-blooded creatures.  Cold-blooded animals don’t actually have “cold” blood, instead they rely on the temperature from their environment to regulate their own body temperature.  They do this by taking advantage of external heat by basking in the sun, and by lying in the shade to cool down.  A more correct term is “ectothermic” which means “heat from outside.”  On the other hand, a warm-blooded animal creates heat internally by chemical reactions inside their body.  They are able to regulate their body temperature internally instead of relying on their environment.

http://www.priweb.org/ed/ICTHOL/ICTHOL04papers/13.htm

Edited by Atlantis Rises, 07 November 2005 - 09:50 PM.

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#104    frogfish

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 12:21 AM

crocs are reptile!!!!!!!!! Where do you get your messed up info DC!?!?!?

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#105    Far Away

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 02:04 AM

I believe dinosaurs were warm-blooded, but, not in the way that mammals are. I think that they could maintain a constant core temperature, unlike reptiles who have to use the sun to get their body temperatures up.





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