[Milo]

Just about 37,000 years ago, a few thousand years after the first appearance of Modern Man, a taller, more powerfully built, more rugged man suddenly "invades" the western shores of Europe and North Africa. This rugged, innovative, large-brained man is dubbed Cro-Magnon.

About 17,000 years later the Aurignacian culture is replaced by another smaller "invasion" (circa. 18,000 B.C.) known as the Solutrean, then 16,000 years ago the Magdalenian "invasion" occurs, These "invasions" are all associated with Cro-Magnon Man.

Finally the Azilian "invasion" occurs very close to the magic date of 10,000, ending forever the Upper Paleolithic Age.

An anthropological fact usually ignored is that there are notable differences in types of paleolithic man. The terms Cro-Magnon and Modern Man are used as if they were synonymous, whereas strictly speaking they are not. All Cro-Magnons are Modern, but all Moderns are not Cro-Magnon.

Cro-Magnon's distribution is limited to western portions of Europe and North Africa, as well as a number of Atlantic islands. Even some limited portions of South America have a type called Cro-Magnoid (meaning possessing some Cro-Magnon characteristics).

The Upper Paleolithic Age covers the period from circa. 38,000-10,000 B.C. During this period two main physical types of Modern Man flourished throughout Europe, Asia and Africa--the eastern and western. The "western" is known as Cro-Magnon, but the "eastern" are known by various other names, such as Brunn Man, or Combe Capelle (wherever the remains were first found).

These eastern types are generally shorter, more gracile, and rather smaller-brained than Cro-Magnon. The latter does not imply any particular degree of intelligence, but is merely stated as a defining characteristic. Average stature of the Combe Capelle Man was about five feet four inches, whereas Cro-Magnon Man averages almost five feet eleven inches.

The tool assemblage associated with Combe Capelle is known as the Perigordian, and is merely a continuation of the earlier Neanderthal's toolkit (the Mousterian), whereas the various Cro-Magnon tool assemblages are definitely not.

The beautiful cave paintings found throughout the Pyrenees and Cantabrian mountains which have become world famous are the work of Cro-Magnon. The art impulse of the "eastern" branch of Upper Paleolithic mankind seems to be characterized by the small, carved female "fertility" images.

Cro-Magnon villages consisted of houses (we don't know what they were made of: all we have is the post hole patterns). They had spear throwers, harpoons, bows and arrows, arrow straighteners, obsidian razors, needles, musical instruments, even bone calendars (carved with symbolic notations bordering on writing;).

A number of sites dating back as far as 15,000 B.C show evidence of the practice of agriculture. Archeologists, not knowing how to account for such a circumstance, have labeled these activities as "a false dawn".

During the Period (15,000-10,000 B.C.) the innovations in technology came so fast that archeologists had to divide it up into Magdalenian I-VI.

Significantly, the final "invasion," the Azilian, occurred approximately 10,000 B.C., embarrassingly close to the date when Plato says Atlantis sank.

Although occurring in time at the beginning of the Mesolithic, the Azilian is Upper Paleolithic in character. All other European tool industries are Mesolithic in character at this time.

Four Cro-Magnon invasions have been noticed in North Africa during this same time period, although more work involving dating needs to be done there (Hadingham, 1979). They are known as the Aterian, Ibero-Maurusian, Mouillian and the Capsian (Bordes, 1968; Clark, 1977, et al.). Dr. Bruce Howe (1967) of Harvard University states: "The bulk of the datable Aterian appears to be earlier than any European Solutrean." The earliest Aterian is so far undated.

In conclusion, we have four Cro-Magnon invasions (each more advanced than the last) happening over a period of just under 25,000 years--the Aurignacian, Solutrean, Magdalenian and Azilian--the last one occurring just when Atlantis was said to have subsided, and since that magic date, no more Cro-Magnon invasions.

So were the Cro-Magnon’s Atlanteans?...

Atlantis and Cro-Magnon Man

Text adapted from: ANTHROPOLOGICAL INSIGHTS

[Bosanchero]

i would be happy as long as you dont think "CRO" doesnt mean Croat or Croatian

and what proof is there of these invasions lol, except a word from someone,
and if we were to ask for evidence would answer be, Because, or cuz i said so ???

This post has been edited by Bosanchero: 09 November 2005 - 08:20 PM

[matthewgoad]

Cro-Magnans were from Atlanta?? Wow that's pretty cool. I never knew they had such things in Georgia.


*Note to self* Sarcasim a little lacking today!

[Bosanchero]

sarcastic but funny heheheheh
welcome to atlanta where Cro-Magnans play
and ride on them things like every day

[Milo]

Maybe its just me, but I find it fascinating that Cro-Magnon came from an “UNKNOWN” place.
Are more advanced than the contemporary ‘Humans’, and disappeared after 10,000 bce coincidently at the end of the last ice age, at a time when global sea levels were rising.

Perhaps leading to near global memory’s of a great flood, not unlike the new belief that the “sumerian ” flood myths may be memorys of the black sea flooding...

Dispatch 1: Expedition Prologue
Black Sea Abyss Holds Promise Ancient vessels may be shipshape
Combing The Black Sea For An Ancient Lost Civilization

I wouldn’t be surprised, if traces of stone age habitation were found under water along the coasts at levels consistent with ice age levels...

Look What They Found Off Britain's Coast

I tried to find more ‘scientific’ facts about Cro-Magnon...

Cro-Magnon 1
The First Humans: Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Tools
Cro-Magnon man
Hominid Evolution

most of what I found about ‘where’ was like this...

They (Cro-Magnon) ranged from Northern Africa to Southern Asia and across Europe. They took advantage of the lowered sea levels and connections via land to migrate across the Bering Land Bridge beginning around 20 to 10 tya. Others suggest that they might have crossed via a Greenland-Nova Scotia route, over ice, land and with small sea vessels across short distances. The first North American immigrants were caucasoid, and were later replaced by Asian tribes who were the ancestors of modern Native Americans.

Ok, so they came out of Africa 150 - 100 tya, made a rush into the entire atlantic coastal areas, kicked the sh*t out of the Neanderthals, and then invaded, their own territories for tens of thousands...

and ‘where’ they went like this...

When the glaciers receded, the culture and the industry dissipated.

Oh’ so, when the sea levels were rising, they ‘Dissipated’...

Yeah, Right... Hey, JMO

[matthewgoad]

You think the Cro-Magnon's knew Jermaine Dupri? He's from Atlanta..

[Piney]

That is why Native Americans have "mixed" features and genetics. The Soultreans crossed the Atlantic and became the "Clovis People" But there was a second imigration across that became the "Red Paint People". There was probably several immigrations to North American. I think there was close to 5 but it is my own personal theory.
You forgot to add the Magdalenian's also domesticated and were the first ones to ride the horse.......


Lapi'che

[Milo]

Quote

That is why Native Americans have "mixed" features and genetics. The Soultreans crossed the Atlantic and became the "Clovis People" But there was a second imigration across that became the "Red Paint People". There was probably several immigrations to North American. I think there was close to 5 but it is my own personal theory.
You forgot to add the Magdalenian's also domesticated and were the first ones to ride the horse.......
Lapi'che

yes, some evidence indicates they domesticated horses. mostly from wear on teeth I think...

I wonder where the 'immigrations' originated from...

were they caucasians? with the strong simularity to some europeans.

[Milo]

Quote

That is why Native Americans have "mixed" features and genetics. The Soultreans crossed the Atlantic and became the "Clovis People" But there was a second imigration across that became the "Red Paint People". There was probably several immigrations to North American. I think there was close to 5 but it is my own personal theory.
You forgot to add the Magdalenian's also domesticated and were the first ones to ride the horse.......
Lapi'che

Spirit Cave Burial 2 was one of the oldest sets of human remains in North America.

Burial 2, presumed about 2,000 years old. The testing procedure called for taking a small sample of bone to date in comparison with the date obtained from a hair. Curiously, Taylor's lab got results indicating Burial 2 dated to the early Holocene, more than 9,000 years ago.

Nevada State Museum learned that another skeleton in its collection dated to almost exactly the same era. The other early Holocene skeleton, known as the Wizard's Beach man, was found in 1978 when a prolonged drought had lowered the level of Pyramid Lake northeast of Reno. The discovery site is only about 100 miles from Spirit Cave.

These two early Nevada men looked somewhat different than most of the people who are known to have inhabited the area about 5,000 years later.

Analysis of cranial measurements of skeletons that date to around 9,000 years ago or earlier indicates those people had different morphologies and may have had different roots than later Americans. Forensic anthropologists, expert at determining the physical characteristics of crime and accident victims, say these most-ancient Americans had certain generalized features they see in contemporary Caucasian populations

Whoever the Spirit Cave man and the Wizard's Beach man were, their skeletons show obvious similarities. Both had long narrow faces, unlike the relatively wider and shorter faces characteristic of early Native American people.

66 artifacts from Spirit Cave, most of which were fiber and fur materials associated with Burial 2. They discovered what would prove to be the remains of five individuals, but they found only seven lithic artifacts including a Humboldt point, known in the Great Basin to date to the period from 9,000 to 7,000 years ago. Analysis of the textiles on the mummy and one of the cremation bags reveals that the weave is not twining, but a distincitive plain weave dubbed "diamond plaiting" by museum staff. Dansie says it is a major new textile type in the New World, found only in the ancient Northwestern Great Basin. This particular weave was not recognized as an early Great Basin textile type until the dating of the Spirit Cave mummy, wrapped in the same kind of textile, drew attention to its significance.

The oldest fiber technology in the world recovered thus far was recorded as impressions in clay and comes from Pavlov I in the Czech Republic dating between about 24,000 and 27,000 B.P. The next oldest fiber artifacts include fragments of charred cordage and/or netting from Mezhirich in Ukraine and Kosoutsy in Moldova dating from around 17,000 B.P. Also of broadly comparable age are charred cordage fragments and impressions on clay from Lascaux, France.

The oldest evidence of fiber artifact production from Asia, including Late Pleistocene/Upper Paleolithic and so-called "Mesolithic" sites in China and Japan, are presently no older than 13,000 to 12,000 years B.P.

Danger Cave in Utah has yielded the oldest cordage and netting from the eastern Great Basin with three specimens that date from 11,151 +/- 570 B.P. to 10,270 +/- 650 B.P.

Also controversial are the fiber perishable materials from presumed Clovis contexts in Pendejo Cave, New Mexico. This small collection, which includes cordage and knotted netting has not been directly assayed, but may date to between 11,900 B.P. and 11,300 B.P., thus making it the oldest perishable assemblage in western North America.

AMS dates from screened peat from cores taken north of Alaska's Cape Lisburne were 11,330 +/- 70 years B.P. (Beta 43952) and 11,000 +/- 60 (Beta 43953). Analysis of the cores, then, indicated that the sea covered the land bridge after 11,000 B.P.; probably by 10,500 B.P.

Large numbers of fluted, Clovis-like projectile points, remains of Pleistocene animals, and human remains radiometrically dated to Clovis time suggest Paleo- American occupation of sites along Tulare Lake in central California.

Tulare Lake sites have given up more than 300 Clovis or Clovis-like projectile points.

Uranium series radiometric dating methods have returned dates of 11,380 and 15,800 years ago for a sample of mineralized human bone, and dates of 10,788, 15,696, and 17,745 years ago for samples of mammoth, horse, and camel, respectively. Though the interpretation of radiometric dates on out-of-context surface finds may be questioned, the faunal dates were from species expected to have been extinct by at least 10,500 years ago.

Fluted points have been found at China Lake, east of the Sierras about 120 miles southeast of Tulare Lake; in the Borax Lake-Clear Lake area of northern California; at two sites in the Tonopah Lake-Mud Lake area of south-central Nevada; and at the Dietz site in south-central Oregon.

A stratified site buried by alluvium, Big Pine Tree is beside Smiths Lake Creek, a small tributary of the Savannah River. During the late Pleistocene and early Holocene, it served as a quarry and quarry-related site owing to the presence of high-quality chert available in what is now the bottom of the creek. The creek chert source appears to have been unavailable after about 9,000 years ago.

The primary interest of our excavations has been the lowest 35 cm of the site. Our excavation strategy has focused on piece plotting as many worked lithics as can be detected in the field, excavating in a grid of one-meter squares and digging in 5-cm levels. This strategy has determined the stratigraphic separation of three different occupations, which contain projectile points spanning the period from 11,000 to 9,000 years B.P. The lowest level contains many examples of fluted blanks and preforms, which are thought to be related to Clovis point manufacture. Fluted blanks like those from Big Pine Tree are common across the Southeast at quarry-related Paleoindian sites such as Thunderbird and Williamson in Virginia, Wells Creek Crater and Carson-Conn-Short in Tennessee, and the Adams site in Kentucky.

At Big Pine Tree, the lowest cultural zone is also where lithic debris is the densest. This layer resulted from primary core reduction and tool manufacture related to processing cobble chert procured in the adjacent creek. This artifact layer is so dense that one can readily see it in the profiles of excavation units and backhoe trenches. Statistically, the weight of lithic debris in the bottom layer is three or four times greater than in layers representing later occupations. It is clear that one of the main reasons the Clovis people occupied the site was for the exploitation of the chert source. Other stone artifacts such as endscrapers, sidescrapers, prismatic blades and even microblades are also found in the Clovis layer, indicating activities besides chert processing.

REMARKABLE DISCOVERY

July 1996 two students wading in the Columbia River at Kennewick, Washington, stumbled across the skeletal remains of a middle-aged European male. At first anthropologists presumed they had discovered a pioneer who had died in the late 1800's. But radiocarbon dating subsequently showed that the skeleton was a remarkable 9,300 years old.

According to Dr. Han Kangxin, a physical anthropologist at the Institute of Archeology in Beijing, the skeletal and mummified evidence clearly points to the fact that the earliest inhabitants of the Tarim Basin region were White people related to the Cro-Magnons of Paleolithic Europe.

Most researchers now agree that the birthplace of horse-drawn vehicles and horse riding was in the steppes of Ukraine, rather than in China or the Near East. As Dr. Anthony and his colleagues have shown through microscopic study of ancient horse teeth, horses already were being harnessed in Ukraine 6,000 years ago.

Aryans: Culture Bearers to China

[Piney]

Quote

yes, some evidence indicates they domesticated horses. mostly from wear on teeth I think...

I wonder where the 'immigrations' originated from...

were they caucasians? with the strong simularity to some europeans.

I do not think they were Aryans but Finno-Urgic. The Celtic and Germanic legends describe an earlier race in their legends. The Ukraine was the center of Finno-Urgic culture before the Aryans pushed them North and East. Indo-Aryan culture began in Afganistan. I also think the Picts were the last Finno-Urgic culture in the British Iles because Tacitus describes the Estonian (Aesti) language as "akin to Northern British".
They also have found bone bits from the Magdalenian culture in North Poland (South Prussia) which was a Finno-Urgic hotbed before the Teutonic Knights wiped them out during the Baltic Crusades.
Don't go too far over my head the only college I've had is 'Forestry Management' and 'Agricultural Science'......eh! some biology

Lapi'che ni'tis

[Milo]

The Picts appear to be a fairly recent strain of Celt. Compared to the 10,000 bce + Cro-Magnon’s types. IMHO

I also found this part about the Nevada finds interesting...

"There's no reason to think they are ancestral to Paiute people," says Dansie. Even Paiute legends say that they were victorious over people who occupied the area when Paiutes first arrived. "Their own stories say that they eliminated their predecessors."

There seems to be a never ending cycle of colonization and conquest...

I also find the Glacial Lake Missoula floods Interesting, as they seem to occur at times the cro-mags were on the move, a coincidence I suppose...

A number of dry basalt coulees course through Eastern Washington. Moses Coulee, like many other coulees and canyons, was carved from solid basalt by huge floods. These floods occurred at the end of the last ice age between 15,000 and 10,000 years ago by a giant lake in Montana- Glacial Lake Missoula. The lake was formed from immense quantities of meltwater, and was dammed by ice. When the ice dam broke loose during warmer periods, enormous floods were released across Montana, Idaho and Washington States.

Moses Coulee in spring when everything is GREEN

would have been a drag if you were living in the flood zone... all traces of a culture would be destroyed.

[Shai_Hulud]

How did anyone drew conclusions that Cro-magnon, a prehistoric human and Atlanteans, an advanced civilized people described by Plato, are one and the same. Not to mention that Cro-magnon existed 10,000-35,000yrs ago. I would not take Plato's word on Atlantis too seriously, he was the only source of it for one and he was also fond of incredible analogies to frame his philosophies.

Quote

Most researchers now agree that the birthplace of horse-drawn vehicles and horse riding was in the steppes of Ukraine, rather than in China or the Near East. As Dr. Anthony and his colleagues have shown through microscopic study of ancient horse teeth, horses already were being harnessed in Ukraine 6,000 years ago.

Gathering evidence from a National Alliance website to support some race oriented point of view , It is believed by most researchers that domestication of horses took place 6,000yrs ago, but evidence is scanty, however full utilization of horses took place in the steppes of asia . The European remains found in Taklamakan desert did indicate presence of Europeans, but they were never dominant, in the end they were all absorbed and their culture failed to takeoff. An indication of failure more than anything.

This post has been edited by Shai_Hulud: 11 November 2005 - 03:37 PM

[Guardsman Bass]

From what the Opening Post described, it sounded more they were either simply different ethnic groups within the same species of Homo Sapiens, or the eastern group favored stocky individuals who retained their heat better in the Ice Age climate.

[Essan]

We're talking 'invasions' in much the sense that Britain, for example, invaded the rest of the world resulting in the spread of the agricultural and industrial revolutions. Or, indeed, the Japanese have recently invaded the rest of the world, hence the spread of microelectronics.....

Humans have been migrating since before we were human. The fact that different ethnic and technological groups continued to migrate through the end of the ice age is, in fact, exactly what we'd expect.

As for Atlantis, maybe the Atlanteans were all Neanderthals? Or Homo Habilis? Or Lemurs? (Oh, no, that'd make 'em Lemurians........ )