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Should Young Offenders be Tried as Adults?


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#1    Lottie

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Posted 19 November 2005 - 04:36 PM

Debate suggestion made by Becky's Mom thumbsup.gif

Should young offenders be tried as adults when they have committed Adult crimes – Yes or No ?

Looking for 2 participants.

This will be a 1v1 formal debate.
An Introduction, 5 bodily posts and a conclusion from each participant. No Flaming, bad manners or profantities will be tolerated. Please make sure you quote ALL your sources!

Please be aware that:

There is a point deduction for debaters who fail to make a post within the 7 day time frame. The deductions will be 2 points for every day the participant fails to post after the 7 days.

This is to ensure that debates continue in a timely fashion. If for any reason you cannot post within the 7 days, please ensure that you let myself or Aztec know to avoid having the points taken off your debate.

If, however the participant does not then attempt to make a post for upto 2 weeks after the 7 day rule has started an immediate disqualification will occur.

Lottie

Edited by Lottie, 24 January 2006 - 09:19 PM.


#2    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 19 November 2005 - 05:06 PM

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#3    AztecInca

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Posted 20 November 2005 - 08:43 AM

Beckys Mom has left me know she wishes to debate that young offenders should be tried as adults when they have committed Adult crimes.

We are now looking for just one more member to debate that young offenders should not be tried as adults when they have committed Adult crimes .

Edited by AztecInca, 21 November 2005 - 05:13 AM.


#4    Lottie

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Posted 26 November 2005 - 02:49 PM

We are still looking for just one more member to debate that young offenders should not be tried as adults when they have committed Adult crimes .
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#5    UniversalMind

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 05:41 PM

I'll take the position that youth offenders should not be tried as adults.


#6    Lottie

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 07:21 PM

Okay Fab!

Beckys_Mom will be debating that young offenders should be tried as adults.
Glacies will be debating that young offenders should not be tried as adults.

Becky you will be first to start with an introduction.

Please remember the rules, if there are any problemss just give Aztec or myself a yell.

Oh and have fun!  thumbsup.gif

Lottie

Edited by Lottie, 16 January 2006 - 11:03 AM.


#7    Lottie

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 10:37 AM

Becky, we are waiting for an Introduction from you thumbsup.gif .


EDIT: Beckys_Mom has informed me she is having pc probs and will hopefully make a post by tomorrow.

Edited by Lottie, 04 December 2005 - 09:00 PM.


#8    Lottie

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 08:45 PM

Quote


How does this all work, you all got me confused??? lol


Unique, this is now a formal debate so in future please do not post in these areas, unless you would like to partake.

To see how the debates work go to the top of the board or here:
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#9    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 04:06 PM

Opening Statment

Should young offenders be tried as adults?

In my opinion youths aged 15, 16 & 17 all should be tried as adults.
You may think that's harsh especially to a 15 year old, a 15 year old KNOWS the difference between right & wrong, even if he/she has not been taught so by their parents general common sense would tell them that.
Too many young offenders get away with the most foulest of crimes theses days with just a slap on the wrist.  
I lived beside a family that had two young teenage guys that from the age of 11 where out breaking into peoples cars and vandalizing people's property.  They got the usual slap on the wrist. As time went on and they hit their teens, their crimes got worse, they carried on breaking into peoples homes, cars and joined other teenagers that attacked a number of kids half their age and set fire to the home of a local Indian family, who they claimed they should be allowed to live here so that gave them the right to commit arson to the home of the Indian family.

What happened to the teenager gang?
One of the gang members that lived in my area was sent to a young offenders home not far from where I live, for a period of 2 months, and when he got out, he stated that no holiday camp will keep me off the streets.
A lot of young offenders that are sent to a detention home all claim that it is more of a holiday camp for them and when they are released into society, they go off to commit more crimes, it's almost as if they are laughing in the face of the law.

About the two teenage guys that once lived in my street, their mom had been looking after a disabled man that lives 3 doors down from me, when their mom had finished cleaning his home, later that evening, her 2 teenage sons broke into his house, trashed it, threw his wheelchair out into the yard, and stole some of his belongings.

On the same night, they joined another 2 members of their gang, and broke into an old aged pensioners home ½ mils from where I live and held a knife to the old woman's throat, while his brother beat up her husband then  took her savings and after trashing her home, they fled the scene, leaving the two pensioners distressed.
When they where finally arrested, one of the teenage boys told the police officer that once he gets out of this holiday camp (as he calls it) he will get the old man and finish him off for squealing on him!!

This is just PART of the reason as to why I think young offenders should be tried as adults.

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 05 December 2005 - 04:09 PM.

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#10    Glacies

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 04:50 AM

Introduction:
It is my opinion that youths, ages 15-17 should not, I repeat, should not, be tried as adults within the legal justice system. The youngest of this age bracket namely the fifteen to sixteen year old offenders are still at a point in development. The youths are still being affected heavily by on rushes of hormones, as well as being bombarded by conflicts and crises arising as a result of transitions into adulthood. However, you must not misunderstand my viewpoint here. I am not excusing entirely the wrongful acts enacted by youths of that age group, though it must be taken into account as a mitigating circumstance. Furthermore, the final age bracket, namely the late sixteen to seventeen year olds are in a theoretical limbo, unable to do anything according to the law, though able to break it numerous different ways. It seems unreasonable to them, as well as myself to allow them to be scolded by their country, though not have a say in which the country is run. Thusly, this conflict of moral compass, feeling abandoned by the justice system causes a mob mentality to form. Joining together with fellow confused youths and lashing out, as well as street gangs are the most common mob mentalities expressed. So if the youth were to be tried as an adult, all the prosecutor would be doing is alleviating the symptom, when the disease itself is society failing the youth. More help is required, so as to sever the chain of events leading to the formation of mob mentality/criminal behaviour. However, again, these examples are not excuses, merely circumstances which must be taken into account. however when all circumstances have been taken into account, it seems unreasonable to continue with a trial as an adult.

Yet, all I have said are opinions, if one were to carefully examine all studies done on the ‘get tough’/’tough love’ strategies of some countries, it is easily found that trying youths as adults serves very little purpose in the means of a deterrent, as found in the study by the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation Research Network on Adolescent Development and Juvenile Justice, which I will go more in depth upon later. Basically, all research done so far clearly point to the fact that youths within the justice system are not all rehabilitated as society would like, instead numerous youths continue to offend after prison. The chain of hateful feelings continues to grow, leading yet again, to a feeling of abandonment by the system, which leads to more offences. While the concept of committing crimes as a plea for attention is arguable, what is undeniable is most all youth crimes, regardless of the age bracket, are done as a cry of confusion, and a way of lashing out against a system they don’t understand and feel failed them.

Edited by Glacies, 16 January 2006 - 04:53 AM.

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#11    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 06:15 PM

I am sorry Glacies but...... (ty for taking part btw)
a rush with hormones are hardly an excuse for setting someones car on fire and beating the living daylights out of a small child or an old age pensioner, if thats the case women could do the same regardless of their age, they can easily blame on the hormones...actually some have tried that and some where laughed out of court for doing so.

See I know what it is like to grow up as a teen, feel neglected, an wanted no one even my own family where giving me any affection or the attention I needed.  I got angered by it all, felt everyone was against me...I even hung out in a gang that did like to break into houses and terrorized folks within the neighborhood and stole money from others just to buy alcohol and they loved it, it gave them a buzz and bragged how they could easily get away with it because they knew that they would get a slap on the wrist and set free again.

I felt horrible...there I was in this gang and I felt this wasn't right...there was my so called friends breaking into an old aged pensioners home, holding her down knowing fine well the old woman couldn't defend herself..and robbed her of the little pension that she recieves....I pictured her as my own grandmother and backed the hell out of it fast.   When I confronted my fellow gang members asking them how would they feel if some gang where to do the same to their grandmother...5 members out of 6 said --- If some other gang members hurt their grandmother like that..they would kill the ones that did it...then when they realized that they have done something the same only on to someone elses grangmother..they tried to shrug it off and made a heap of excuses as to why they did was right...........terrorizing anyone to these people was a thrill and they had fun doing it, and some thought it may impress other gangs..it was like a competition as to who could do the most dastertly deed/crime.  
Most of the time my so called gang members hurt and tortured others while still off their faces with drugs and alcohol...I was of my face too and found myself not doing anything to stop them, instead I just stood their laughing..........I woke up the following morning in shock..I was only 17 at the time and I felt awful I may not of taken part in the torturing of the two people that happened to be passing by that night...but I was just as bad for standing their watching and not doing a thing to stop it...I KNEW it was wrong..in fact I KNEW all that the gang had done was WRONG...I got out..it was hard but I did it...Later to hear abuout my fellow gang members getting put away in a youth defender home for a few months for the arson attacks on a neighbors cars while their dog was still inside...I was discusted that they only got 4 months in a yough home which later bragged it was like a holiday camp.

When A youth KNOWS he/she will get sent to what they like to call a holiday camp and most get to meet more gang members there and plan their next crime...this has NO EFFECT on them...it teaches them NOTHING..all it does is bide some time till they are out once again creating TERROR and TORTURE on to other helpless victims.  When I was once part of that..I DID NOT have ANY excuse for my behavior..yea my father hurt me and I felt alone and anwanted just like a lot of teenagers but I KNEW the difference between wright and wrong.  

Two members of the gang I was once a member of back in the day....each had a family member that where only a year or so older than them...sent to prison for drugs and assault with the use of knives known as GBH (very serious) the two guys that committed these horrid crimes where aged 18 & 19..they where tried as adults and sent to the big boys prison, where both of them where badly beaten up by other convicts that where biger and tougher then them, and where lucky they wernt killed...the treatment they recieved from the guards ect put the fear of God into them.
The kid brothers that where part of the gang I was in thought it was cool that their older brothers where in a real prison...but later when the two brothers where released they soon told their younger brothers it was NO holiday camp...this made some think about where they where headed and they too knocked it all on the head and left the gang.  These people that left the gang, went out to find work..some found it hard at the start to find work due to the criminal records but in the end found work and managed to carrry on with their lives, they still went out drank a lot and had fun, only without harming others...to me thats progress.

When a teenager goes out of his/her way to create harm, should it be arson attacks, joy-riding, breaking an entry and even murder..they KNOW fine well its wrong, but they also know that they will get away with it, and by that I mean they know that once caught and get put into a youth home for a while, that they see it as another way to meet other gang members in around the same age as them and they see it as a holiday camp and look forward to getting out to get up to the same ole tricks again...I should know I was once one of them, only I was never thrown into a youth home, but I knew if I was to get thrown into one for a while it would be a walk in the park compared to an actual real prison...I knew there was a brave difference...regardless of my hormone rush (even though to me that has no part in my doings) I knew what we all did was bang out of order.

Three of my fellow gang members that continued their crimes..went on their last crime spree, by breaking into a neighbors car and when the neighbor went out to defend his property, they knifed him leaving him to bleed to death and laughed at him...they drove off recklessly without a care and winded up driving through a police checkpoint..knowing fine well if you drive through a police check point you will in the end get shot at.

They thought it was fun to try and run over a few cops along the way...they did and one female officer was badly injured, one of the gang members had a gun and aimed it out the car window..soon all three gang members where shot at by the police...the car crashed..2 of the gangmembers died due to the crash..and one was left with horrid injuries and lost the use of his legs...funny enough so did the female police officer...this scared the living hell out of this youth...he was 17 years old and sat in shock looking at his fellow gang members being dragged out of the car rubble and put into body bags...this was a nightmare and till this day he will never forget it...he admitted that he knew it was wrong but thought that if caught all he would get anyway was the usual slap onthe wrist and off to the holiday camp...he had no idea that it would leave such a nasty impact on him for the rest of his life.

If the 3 gang members had of been tried as adults for their last crimes before they had one final joy ride...it could have taught them a valuable lesson and...could have saved two of their lives and the famale officer along with the 3rd gang member could to this day have full use of their legs...as for the guy that was knifed for trying to stop them from taking his car...unfortunately he died on the way to hospital...he was just a young father aged 20 and died because he tried to stop these youths from taking his property...hormones have nothing to do with these acts....stupidity and cockiness without care for others does..play a huge part of it...when I say cockiness..I mean they where cocky enough to commit these crimes knowing they would get a slap on the wrist...and the majority of them had their mom's back them up..all singing to the same ole tune..my boy does no harm officer he is a good boy...and so on this adds more fuel to the fire..if you get my drift
The more a mother stands up for her kids crimes claiming he/she is innocent..the more the youth will think it's ok to carry on.

I was taught right from wrong and yet I felt it was cool to be seen in a gang that got up to no good...I rebelled a lot and it got me nowhere fast...there was no excuse for my actions other than stupidity and ignorance not my hormones.

If youths aged between 15 -17 where tried as adults and sent to an adult prison this would change a lot of them..ok not all but a lot of them...just like it did to the gang members brothers aged 18 & 19 they soon had a change of heart and got their eyes opened...today these guys have families of their own and have managed to hold down a propper job and where thankful they stopped when they did.  

Sorry this is way long but I am not talking or pasting anything from a web site..on what studies show...I am posting from personal experiences and what has actually happened.  People can make up excuses for teens that kill and hurt others...if these people that do such researches experienced what it was like themselves and by that I also mean being a victim and watching the young crimnals get off scot free...they would look at it differently.

The more a youth see's his mom back him up and talks to a doctor about how they feel abandoned by their family and society...that gives them the perfect oportunity to do as they please.  


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#12    Glacies

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 04:15 AM

Well said. Though you must watch yourself, I didn’t say hormones were excuses, merely a mitigating circumstance, that is to say an event which could lessen the severity of one’s actions.

Your memories of growing up and feeling neglected, and angry did, as we have agreed on, lead to a gang mentality, and criminal behaviour. However, as you yourself had said, you were able to see what was happening as wrong, furthermore, you were able to relate the experience from yourself, and direct it towards others, worrying about your grandmother if she were to have been put into that situation. Furthermore, you were concerned about anyones grandmother in that situation, thereby turning your reasoning outwards, and relating it to the world in general. You then related this feeling to your friends, and reached a mutual consensus of what you had done was wrong. Yet, the friends were only able to see it as wrong if it had happened to them. They were unable to be concerned about the world in general, or other’s grandmothers. This goes to prove their disassociation which occurred as a result of the aforementioned feelings of abandonment and misuse. It is this selfish inability to comprehend ones actions as wrong unless the wrong action was against them, which only goes to prove the theory of most of the young criminals being unadjusted youths, unable to relate to anything.

However, you were able to realize the selfishness of your actions, you were able to view the acts as universally wrong. And as such, you escaped that lifestyle. This is not the case with most youth offenders. While it is true, right and wrong are identifiable, it is only viewed as right or wrong, if the offender can relate it to themselves, i.e. ‘how would you feel if..’ statements. Thusly the offender doesn’t have a true grasp on what is right or not, merely what they think would be right for themselves.

On the concept however, of ‘youth offender homes’, my father worked as an instructor in such a facility, and he can testify that said facility is unable to properly give the offenders the structure that they need. Similar to a reaction to the ‘tough love’ treatment, the effects of certain detention centres create an environment without structure, without the help that a youth offender would need, and as such, the criminal behaviour is not stopped, instead, it is propagated. Therefore, more effort is required, more personal time, more time to make the offender realize that what is wrong for him/her is wrong for everyone, make them realize that they are not abandoned, and guide them.

While I do agree with certain points you have raised, I do not think the concept of ‘teaching them a lesson’ is the point of the law. The law is not solely about punishment, but about growth, restructuring and rehabilitation. Though I must agree, blind faith in the youth will only serve to spoil the youth. Respect and faith must be earned, and this is just one of the principles that a young offender must learn, something he/she cannot learn in prison.


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#13    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 09:54 PM

Its easy to argue that young offenders should not be tried as adults when you are a teenager yourself..just in the same way it is easy for me to argue likewise as I am an adult lol but it is still quite intresring ..anyway.....

What put the fear of God into me as a teenage terrorway? the very thought of being tried as an adult did, once I heard other stories from those not much older than myself thats when it hit me...I don't want to go there never blink.gif

The trouble with youths these days is they get it far too handy...as I said before, they laugh at the very idea of a youth detention center.  This is why I think they should get a small dose of what a real prison is like, that would put the laughing out of them.

Think about it for a min..lets say you are a teenage (ok I know you are a teenager but pretend you are a criminal)  offender, you have caused all sorts of harm on to innocent victims and at one point or another you have almost took the life of another human being, and yet being the person you are, you don't give a toss for society, you think everyone hates you anyway, you have already been in and out of youth detention home, where social workers have tried everything to help council you and show you that someone actually cares.  Well since you have no cares for anyone or anything that is why you have become the person you are.

To compare that with a ie- 21 year old man who has committed the same amount of horrid crimes as you have, thinks along the same lines as you, well then why should he be treated any different than you once caught by the police and taken to a court of law?
I know for a fact that many prisioner that have served their time in a real prison have been rehabilitated  during their time in prison,and have been released years before their actual time is up due to good behavior and have from there chosen a better road to go down rather than the one they used to take. The same when an 18 year old guy for that matter why should he get tried as an adult when the 17yr old doesnt..yet there is only 12 odd months between them less in most cases...!

A lot of the bigger criminals have even taken to the good book and became born again christians while serving their time in prison and have turned their lives around...tell me what is so scary about that...actually it seems to do them more good and makes them not want to get thrown back into prison again...but when you compare it with a simple youth detention center..the prison seems to have a much better effect, I know this because I have met many people that have been through it, just in the same way I have met those that have laughed at the thoughts of a youth detention center.
Some older men that have served their time in prison, have also served time in a youth detention home, and have said that if they had of seen what a real prison was like when they where 16/17 yrs or so they most likely would NEVER have set foot inside a real prison to begin with

Ask yourself this...a 16yr old guy has broken into your moms house and has tried to rob her, she has tried to defend her home and he kills her in the process of it all.   You see this guy in court, smirking in the court room at the idea of going into a youth home for a few years, when an 18yr old guy would be doing life for the same thing...tell me what do you think would be right for him? To do this you have to picture the idea (gee I know it sound horrible but I am just giving you an example) of your mom being brutely killed only to get robbed...I know for a fact a lot of kids would want to kill this youth for doing such a thing...but I am asking you...life in a real prision where he can get rehabilitated and serve his time or in the holiday camp they like to call a youth center, in which case he may get set free within a few years...what would you think is best?
I know the very thought of going to a real prison would make a lot of young offenders think twice!!!

Bare also in mind that at the age of 16, you are old enough to get married, raise a family, get a full time job...and old enough to know what you are doing is either right or wrong.

BM  wink2.gif

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 17 January 2006 - 10:03 PM.

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#14    Glacies

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 04:08 AM

Well said, being on the cusp of the legal age barrier can make one plead a case for the lesser of the two sentences. However, if one has a sense of justice, regardless of age, he/she can see that punishing is not nearly as effective as mediating and moderating.

Yet, I must disagree, while you are accurate, some youths do get things too easily, and an average juvenile detention center is inadequate, I feel that a prison is far too extreme. There has to be a middle ground, a place strict enough to apply structure, yet not harsh enough as to permanently damage an already mentally ill youth.

The concept of the age barrier or legal age of criminal culpability, is a bit…confusing at first glance. It may seem odd to have a person unable to judge right/wrong, yet 24 hrs later, at their 18th birthday, they are suddenly able to. However, this is the law, and while legal restructuring can occur, and does quite often, the law is in place to protect the majority and minority alike. In this case, that minority are youth offenders who are truly ill, and unable distinguish such previously mentioned concepts of a global right/wrong. Numerous studies, such as the one documented by Linda A. Teplin, Ph.D., Northwestern University, and colleagues in the December, 2002 Archives of General Psychiatry, which states: “Among teens in juvenile detention, nearly two thirds of boys and nearly three quarters of girls have at least one psychiatric disorder” which outnumbers the estimated 15 percent of youth in the general population thought to have psychiatric illnesses. Further studies in this trial show that about half of the detained teens were abused or addicted to drugs, and more than 40 percent had disruptive behavior disorders, namely, oppositional defiant disorder and conduct disorder. As discussed earlier, causes for the illnesses and behavioural disorders were from the emotionally unstable state that said youths were put in.
The topic of a parent’s/loved one’s murder, is one of the best to argue in the debate over child offenders. It is one of the greatest ways to personalize the debate and determine how forcefully one feels about their standpoint. I must say I was at a crossroad here, I was unsure of how I would feel, of what I would do. All people want to say they could take the moral highground, stick to your opinion, and wish that this 16 year old would get the proper treatment, would be fixed. Right now, I find myself nearly at that point. I know I would be angry, heck, angry enough to do something drastic and criminal. But I also know what my mother would want. She had been a legal assistant, and knew cases of youth offenders, some validly ill, others not. She knew that of most youth offenders going to prison, few were rehabilitated, she believed, and as studies have come to validate, that after prison they would come out worse, not truly receiving any help. As such, she would have wanted me to find out why this youth was stealing, why he felt this way, and see if we could fix him. That is what she would want. I am not quite as noble as she is yet. She has asked me, “While the ‘scared straight’ approach is functional at some points, it must be questioned do we want a nation of young adults doing what is right because it is right, and because they have received guidance and help, or because they are afraid to do anything else?” (great debate so far BM, you’ve had me on the ropes a few times here thumbsup.gif )


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#15    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 01:52 AM

I understand what you are saying and before I go any further, I just want to say there arent too many like your mom, she seems to look for the good in people thats a great quality, your lucky to have her original.gif

Anyhoo...

The mental attitude of a teenager towards a youth detention home is in general a holiday camp, they don't fear it, they see it as a great escape from their school, from any other responsibilities they may have, and they know that they are not going to be there for a long period for the crime they have committed..some love to brag about it.

The very thought of going to prison scares a lot of criminals, they do not want to go there, they would do a runner before they finally get tracked down by the police.  As a prison does provide rehabilitation & counseling ....June 19, 2003
Study Touts Faith-Based Prison Rehabilitation Program

by Alexandra Alter
Religion News Service

WASHINGTON -- A study of the effectiveness of a key faith-based prisoner rehabilitation program has found that graduates of the program are less likely to return to a life of crime.

The study was released Wednesday (June 18) after leaders of Prison Fellowship, the ministry founded by ex-convict and Nixon aide Chuck Colson, met with President Bush and White House officials to discuss the program's impact on ex-prisoners.

The study, conducted by Byron Johnson of the University of
Pennsylvania's Center for Research on Religion and Urban Civil Society, found that graduates of Prison Fellowship's program are less likely than non-graduates to return to a life of crime. The program provides spiritual
counseling, job training and mentoring to prisoners nearing the end of their
sentences.


I don't understand as to why you would think a prison is far too extreme? It depends on the crime committed...to me if you have committed a serious extreme crime then going to a prison from the age of 16 into either a medium   security prison to serve propper time like all the other criminals to me is pretty fair...when you compare those that have committed the same extreme crimes are put into a maximum security prison.

Not all youths that committe crimes are mentally ill, I would dare say a lot of them know fine well what they are doing is wrong...trouble with them is they don't give a damn.  Better still since most of the problems originate from the home, and these youths have not been brought up propperely by their parents, then their parents should be sent to prison with their teenagers, thats would also make those parents want to do whats right by their kids. I for one would teach my child respect and self discipline to guide them away from trouble knowing that if they do committe horrid crimes that I too could wind up in a prison for their behavior.

Tony Blair has brought out a new system under the name of ASBO'S, and if the youths break these ASBO'S laws their parents could wind up being thrown out into the streets and some may wind up in jail..feel free to look that up and read a lil on it...I think that is a step in the right direction, even though the people that have been the victims of these criminal youths in the past feel they should be tried as adults, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if sooner or later it does come to that and youth homes are done away with, as records have shown that youths dont take the detention homes seriously.

When you talk about youths that do such horrid crimes having a mental illness, well then why not send them to a mental hospital in the same way they send other criminals who are much older!?!

I have seen it happen myself, I have read about cases even where youths laugh at the idea and are more than willing to go out and committe other crimes the sec they are set free from these detention homes, and a vast majority of these youths know fine well that they don't serve anywhere near the amount of time as they would if they where a tad bit older ina real prison.
Other youths that are much younger, as young as 10 & 11 years old have witnessed this and in a way it has encurraged them to get up to no good and have gotten into a lot of trouble, because to them, they think well if the bigger kids can get away with it, it must be ok to do wrong...look at the two youngsters that snatched little 2year old  Jamie Bulger from a shopping mall and tortured him to death..they smiled in the court room and carried on playing with their gameboys...crimes today are being committed by youths who a lot younger...because they have seen several cases where older ones have practically gotten away with it by going to a mere detention home...thats the example detention homes and punishment towards youths has set for the much younger kids...which is probably why the wo kids tortured the lil 2year old boy to death, thinking ohh well we will go to one of those youth homes for a lil while and be out in no time, and just think we wont have to go back to that horrible school!!!!Please note I am not saying they should get thrown into a prison as young as that but if they saw that there was propper justice being done to older kids they may think twice themselves and it may change the futer of youths later on in years to come

In a prison they would be taught discipline and get the councling they need and a lot find religion and have more time to think about where their lives are headed...not like a youth home at all...nothing extreme about that.


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