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Evolution No Solution!


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#1    I AAAM

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 11:24 AM

How Did a Blade of grass evolve from a tree, or vice versa??

I can't explain it, you tell me. blink.gif

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#2    Essan

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 11:33 AM

If you want to understand evolution, you could start by reading this: http://evolution.berkeley.edu/

Or are you just trying to prove evolution is wrong because there are no evolutionary scientists on this forum capable of explaining detailed and complex concepts in five simple paragraphs? wink2.gif

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#3    I AAAM

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 01:04 PM

Quote


If you want to understand evolution, you could start by reading this: http://evolution.berkeley.edu/

Or are you just trying to prove evolution is wrong because there are no evolutionary scientists on this forum capable of explaining detailed and complex concepts in five simple paragraphs? wink2.gif


No that is not it at all. I am trying to find out what the evolution of plants is, the most I have ever read on evolution tried to explain how animals evolved etc. I would like for someone who has read the materials on plants evolution to point me in the right direction to the source of this theory with plants. original.gif

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#4    darkknight

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 01:53 PM

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The first plants were algae and these still thrive in a range of aquatic habitats today. (Do not fall into the trap of thinking because algae have been around for so long they are "primitive". Look upon them instead as being simple compared to more complex groups. The fact is algae today are themselves highly evolved and well adapted to the niche they occupy

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#5    Essan

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 01:53 PM

As far as I know, plant evolution is exactly the same as animal evolution - every now and then a genetic mutation occurs which, if favourable, leads to subtle changes.....

We speed the process up to create new varieties of plants just as we speed animal evolution up to create new breeds of dogs etc.  

Over much greater periods of time, some variants go through so many changes that they no longer have the ability to cross-pollinate with their ancestors and thus a new plant is formed (remember, just because a type of plant in one part of the word changes through natural mutations, doesn't mean that elsewhere the same plant won't change in a different way or even not change at all)    Over even greater periods of time, one off-shoot of a simple moss, for example, might become a giant redwood whilst another is bamboo and a third is grass....

Out of interest, I never studied biology at school - is evolution covered in normal biology syllabuses?

Edited by Essan, 22 November 2005 - 01:54 PM.

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#6    Piney

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 01:23 AM

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Out of interest, I never studied biology at school - is evolution covered in normal biology syllabuses?


Only briefly in the books I have. But I only took the minimum required courses. They don't get into detail about the exact interconnectives.

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#7    Seraphina

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 02:24 AM

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is evolution covered in normal biology syllabuses?


High school level biology? No, not really...I suppose it really depends on the school you're at, but generally speaking at a high school/secondary school level of education evolution will simply be glanced at. Very little about it will actually be explained, and kids will probably just be told "it's something that happens."

That pretty much explains the shocking lack of understanding creationists have of evolution...in order to properly educate yourself on the details of it, you'll probably have to do just that: educate yourself, unless you can find your way into a university course.

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#8    Pumpkin_Blythe

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 02:32 AM

I am a believer in this theory.... BUT we still needed a "spark" to get started and I can not tell you what creature/god/other made that happen.

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#9    Piney

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 03:28 AM

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I am a believer in this theory.... BUT we still needed a "spark" to get started and I can not tell you what creature/god/other made that happen.


I believe that evolution IS intelligent design. It certainly shows a guiding hand urging it along.

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#10    frogfish

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 03:35 AM

I AAAM, grass didnt evolve from a tree, or vice versa, they eveolved from a COMMON ANCESTOR.

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#11    Hehe

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 05:00 AM

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I AAAM, grass didnt evolve from a tree, or vice versa, they eveolved from a COMMON ANCESTOR.

I think he wants more knowledge of that "common ancestor".
Talking about plant evolution, why do plants evolve so slow. I mean they were the first living things i would presume (because animals would then evolve to to harness the chemical energy produced by the early plants).
If a plant is the common ancestor of animals, why did plants not evolve as fast as animals. Punctuated equilibrium you say? Cant the same thing be said for animal cells?
Photosynthesis is immensely complex, and that process shouldve evolved first in order to produce chemical energy.
Here is the thing. dont you think plants would be more likely to evolve into moving beings with senses like sight.  
Animals that dont need to eat mmmm..... Space travel would've been so much easier.

Edited by Hehe, 23 November 2005 - 05:01 AM.


#12    I AAAM

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 07:10 AM

The thing that stumps me with evolution is this: If one plant started the whole shabang, so to speak, how could we have balanced ecologys for different continents and climates?

In any plants in the ecological circle that depend on one another to survive eg. Ferns need shade from tall trees, and mosses and orchids all require special conditions to survive, how could all of this balanced system have produced itself by accident? blink.gif

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#13    Hehe

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 07:52 AM

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The thing that stumps me with evolution is this: If one plant started the whole shabang, so to speak, how could we have balanced ecologys for different continents and climates?

In any plants in the ecological circle that depend on one another to survive eg. Ferns need shade from tall trees, and mosses and orchids all require special conditions to survive, how could all of this balanced system have produced itself by accident? blink.gif

Thing is you have to BELIEVE in the theory and then interprit nature to fit that theory. If it doesnt fit, change the original theory to fit the interpretations.
And they say this part of evolution is a science. rolleyes.gif Philosophical evolution sounds better. Might as well teach Philosophical Intelligent Design and say it is science. w00t.gif

Edited by Hehe, 23 November 2005 - 07:53 AM.


#14    Essan

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 11:27 AM

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Thing is you have to BELIEVE in the theory and then interprit nature to fit that theory. If it doesnt fit, change the original theory to fit the interpretations.


Close but no cigar.

A theory is derived as a result of careful observation (in this case of nature).  If, in time, fresh observations lead to new information then the theory may be adjusted accordingly.  That's science.  As opposed to Faith which is where people believe in something even when observation clearly shows the belief to be wrong.


Quote

how could all of this balanced system have produced itself by accident? blink.gif


Over timescales impossible for most people to imagine.  

And remember, there might be a thousand billion other balanced systems that would work just as well or better, it's just that by accident the one we see today is the one we got...

Edited by Essan, 23 November 2005 - 11:30 AM.

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#15    Hehe

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 12:09 PM

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A theory is derived as a result of careful observation (in this case of nature).  If, in time, fresh observations lead to new information then the theory may be adjusted accordingly.  That's science.  As opposed to Faith which is where people believe in something even when observation clearly shows the belief to be wrong.

Hold on, you are telling me that a theory is based on carefull observation (i agree), but do you think the evolution of all species from a single common ancestor is a valid scientific theory??
If so how so?

Faith, belief... Mmm so there are is observational evidence that God doesnt exist...  interesting

Edited by Hehe, 23 November 2005 - 12:13 PM.





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