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Are legendary "dragons" really dinosaurs?


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#181    Piney

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 10:33 PM

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, I am a museum curator and historian by profession with an interest in these things and quite aware of what authentic Native American artifacts should look like.  


Then you should have your primary sources and references on hand and in your personal office as I have.  Also to have no bibliography for your book is very UNprofessional.


  Lapi'che


  edit: .....and any respectable museum has a library

Edited by Piney, 19 December 2005 - 10:37 PM.

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#182    Yelekiah

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 10:54 PM

I agree with Piney here. If you don't have a proper bibliography, who will give you credit?

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#183    Fluffybunny

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 02:54 AM

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If you and Fluffy, and maybe Zandore all want to believe that native americans were terrified of tiny whiptail lizards and turned them into man-eating monsters that the Indian legends attest to, I guess that is your perogative.


I am guessing that you have not been reading any posts...or missing large chunks of the material that we have been posting here as you continually are missing the entire point of our posts.

I will do my best in order to get my point across to you with as little typing as possible so as not to confuse you. Please read it slowly and respond to the following point:

Please offer supportive evidence that Native Americans(Read; Piney and Fluffys Tribe) were terrified by whiptail lizards(or similar creatures you refer to as dragons). Is that too much to ask, or have we caught you in a lie you are not able to dig yourself out of?

You have repeatedly painted all tribes with the same brush and refused to see that two natives with an understanding of their tribes are asking you to support your own claims with evidence. As of yet you have failed to do so, and continue to destroy your own credibility.

The irony is that you have been so bloody arrogant and so bloody wrong and are afraid to admit it. You have leaned on D Jones work, but have bungled that as you have been claiming he made quotes that he did not. I'd love to see what he has to say about you if he were to read your claims. I don't know if he'd laugh or be angry. So far this has turned into a joke, so I guess I know the answer. You have contined to do his work such an incredible disservice I am astounded.

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#184    Piney

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 03:10 AM

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Please offer supportive evidence that Native Americans(Read; Piney and Fluffys Tribe) were terrified by whiptail lizards(or similar creatures you refer to as dragons). Is that too much to ask, or have we caught you in a lie you are not able to dig yourself out of?

You have repeatedly painted all tribes with the same brush and refused to see that two natives with an understanding of their tribes are asking you to support your own claims with evidence. As of yet you have failed to do so, and continue to destroy your own credibility.


"Artifactual evidence" w00t.gif LOL! I have this rock here with a mastodon scratched on it. Could it be.........possibly............a.........dragon.......LOL!


  Lapi'che



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#185    frogfish

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 03:17 AM

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They see someone with a mental illness and believe they are possessed by a demon. Very scientific.

And you see a lizard..."Oh that's a dragon"...also very scientific...

You DO refuse to give links and refernces tongue.gif

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#186    draconic chronicler

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 04:08 AM

I see many ignorant people are trying to put words in my mouth.  I have never said "Indians were afraid of whiptail lizards".  Frogfish and Fluffy said that.  What Dr. Jones (and I) both said was that native american tribes across the country "feared" giant winged reptilian creatures, whose images can be found on petroglyphs, pottery ,etc.  Please quite behaving so stupidly.

Why am I expected to presernt  a complete Bibliography of my book here?  I don't see anyone else expected to do that.  I have mentioned dozens of my sources hundreds of times in these posts.  If you are dying to read the biblography ask your library to order the book, it will be out soon.   Then you wont  even have to buy it.  But unlike Piney, who makes broad statements like "there are no native american dragon legends", EVERYTHING I have said is in these forums are based on references.

I am not trying to prove dragons are real.  But I AM proving that virtually every human culture in the world believed that these uncannily similar dragons were real, no matter which part of the world, and no one on these forums has ever presented anything to dispute that. And when they have attempted,  I have proven them wrong.  Read the posts, it is now a matter of historical record.  




#187    Piney

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 04:20 AM

Quote



  But unlike Piney, who makes broad statements like "there are no native american dragon legends", EVERYTHING I have said is in these forums are based on references.



  whistling2.gif.........OH! Huh! someone speaking *yawns*.............

I provided names of numerous researchers and dates. You should do the same.............*yawns again* your circling around is getting old   sleepy.gif



  Lapi'che original.gif

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#188    Fluffybunny

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 04:25 AM

Hey, that was a very unique way to avoid showing that you were wrong and cannot provide evidence that the native americans "virtually" all have references to a terrifying lizard in their history. I know Dr Jones didn't say that...No big deal, we will just move on and consider the point settled. Don't feel bad though, I think everyone has stuck their foot in their mouth from time to time; No harm.

I was beggining to think that you were just missing the point.

Now that that point has been resolved, perhaps you would like to make a claim that can be backed up? Something that can be discussed in a manner which allows for an exchange of ideas leading to a nice learning experience? that sounds like fun.

Oh, and if you or anyone else continue to call people ignorant or stupid, you will find yourself lacking a "Add Reply" button. Being such an educated and knowledgeable person I don't think that you will have to resort to such things correct?

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#189    Piney

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 04:31 AM




         w00t.gif  



   lapi'che

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#190    indeed

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 06:36 AM

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no matter which part of the world, and no one on these forums has ever presented anything to dispute that. And when they have attempted,  I have proven them wrong.  Read the posts, it is now a matter of historical record.


I remember where you started talking about The Australian Aboriginals that you soon backed off on   wink2.gif  yes.gif

But please if you want to save face you can try again   thumbsup.gif

Edited by indeed, 20 December 2005 - 06:36 AM.


#191    Guardsman Bass

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 05:28 PM

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Why am I expected to presernt a complete Bibliography of my book here? I don't see anyone else expected to do that. I have mentioned dozens of my sources hundreds of times in these posts. If you are dying to read the biblography ask your library to order the book, it will be out soon. Then you wont even have to buy it. But unlike Piney, who makes broad statements like "there are no native american dragon legends", EVERYTHING I have said is in these forums are based on references.


Don't try to put words in our mouths. We haven't asked you for a 'complete biography of your book.' What we HAVE asked you for is that you post some of the titles of books that you are using as sources, or list the address of even one website that you used as a source. You have failed to do either.

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#192    DemonWatcher

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 06:47 PM

really, from what i have read on both forums regarding dragons, i have seen people request and demand a bibliography from his book.  DO NOT reufte this, as i have been reading both active dragon threads, and have seen this.

But on the matter of proof, can you prove to me conclusively that what you or i have said have never been said before?
I am not joking prove to me that my phrases and your phrases and thos of others have never been said.
use as many obscure refernces as you wish but i guarentee that nothing written here is truly oiginal.

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#193    The Skeptic Eric Raven

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 07:33 PM

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really, from what i have read on both forums regarding dragons, i have seen people request and demand a bibliography from his book.  DO NOT reufte this, as i have been reading both active dragon threads, and have seen this.

But on the matter of proof, can you prove to me conclusively that what you or i have said have never been said before?
I am not joking prove to me that my phrases and your phrases and thos of others have never been said.
use as many obscure refernces as you wish but i guarentee that nothing written here is truly oiginal.

Thats playing word games. You know it is not the same. This is same person that believes his friend is a demon. Come on.

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#194    zandore

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 08:23 PM

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Why am I expected to presernt  a complete Bibliography of my book here?  I don't see anyone else expected to do that.  I have mentioned dozens of my sources hundreds of times in these posts.  If you are dying to read the biblography ask your library to order the book, it will be out soon.   Then you wont  even have to buy it.  But unlike Piney, who makes broad statements like "there are no native american dragon legends", EVERYTHING I have said is in these forums are based on references.
As many here including Fluffy (a MOD) has asked.....show some REFERENCE LINKS!
Without them they are just opinions nothing more nothing less.  


Quote


really, from what i have read on both forums regarding dragons, i have seen people request and demand a bibliography from his book.  DO NOT reufte this, as i have been reading both active dragon threads, and have seen this.
Who and where?



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Thats playing word games. You know it is not the same. This is same person that believes his friend is a demon. Come on.
Could they be the same person? devil.gif

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#195    aquatus1

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 08:51 PM

I have asked DC for his bibliography for two reasons.  The first, because it is the simplest and most easily accessible reference source that a writer would have (Note that I am not asking for a specific reference for a specific article; I am simply asking for the body of work he based his book on, which would, by copyright law, be included in his book), and two, becuase I am less interested in his claims about dragons, and more in his claims to be a legitimate researcher.

References are not weapons used to shoot down ideas.  They are acknowledgements of another's hard work.  They are requisites of academic credibility.  To argue that there is no original thought is pointless; we are not asking whether or not DC came up with this on his own.  If DC came to these conclusions through his research, then it is encumbent on him to reference the research that he used.  His conclusions are his own, and anyone who wishes to use them will, in turn, have to reference his book.





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