Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Are legendary "dragons" really dinosaurs?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
217 replies to this topic

#196    Guardsman Bass

Guardsman Bass

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,222 posts
  • Joined:02 Sep 2005

  • Don't spam me, but feel free to drop a line.

Posted 20 December 2005 - 09:00 PM

[quote name='DemonWatcher' date='Dec 20 2005, 11:47 AM' post='984327']
really, from what i have read on both forums regarding dragons, i have seen people request and demand a bibliography from his book.  DO NOT reufte this, as i have been reading both active dragon threads, and have seen this.[quote]

As someone who has actually READ the entire thread, I don't remember anybody specifically demanding that DC provide the bibliography of his book. We did, however, ask that he either provide reference links to support his statements, or list book titles that support his statements.

[quote]But on the matter of proof, can you prove to me conclusively that what you or i have said have never been said before?
I am not joking prove to me that my phrases and your phrases and thos of others have never been said.
use as many obscure refernces as you wish but i guarentee that nothing written here is truly oiginal.
[/quote]


Go back to page 7 on this thread, and take a look at my first post. See, a reference! But since you didn't pick it up already, I'll explain it again:

There is this logical concept known as Burden of Proof. That means that anyone making a positive claim must provide evidence. A positive statement would be "Prove that Unicorns exist."

The inverse of the above is that you can not prove a negative statement, like the statement you just listed above. It's like asking "Prove to me that unicorns don't exist." Someone could always claim that there is a unicorn hiding somewhere, out there.


"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours." -Sir Charles Napier

"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted."  — D.H. Lawrence

#197    draconic chronicler

draconic chronicler

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Banned
  • 6,229 posts
  • Joined:27 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 21 December 2005 - 02:01 AM

Indeed, I never backed off about the aborigeies.  Quite the opposite, most anthropologists woould include the Rainbow Snake in the pantheon of "dragon dieties".  The broadest definition of a dragon might be a "Supernatural Reptilian Creature".  A Chinese dragon is probably more lie the rainbow Snake than it is a European dragon.

I have said this many times, and I will again regarding my sources.  At the time I wrote the bulk of the book I was a Department of Defense military Historian "overseas" and had no access to good english test libraries.  Much of the theology side of my research is from the internet, but from sources I believe are unimpeachable, such as the online, Jewish Encylcopedia, and Catholic enyclopeadia.  Many, many, ancient manuscripts are also on the internet, such as the the books of Enoch, Book of Jubilees, Apololypse of Baruch, etc can all be found on the internet, and they are no less valid than if they came from a university Library, (which is where many of the online sources are connected to).

As DW said, much of this is not a great revelation of mine.  It is there for any researcher to find.  I do believe I may have put more pieces of the whole "dragon" picture together than has been presented in one place before, and many people seem uncomfortable about it, which is puzzling if it is only nonsense as many of the hecklers here say.   But in truth, dragons are far more than "unicorns" or "fairies" as some hecklers have compared them.  As Dr. Sagan related, they are deeply rooted in the human psyche, unlike any other animal, real or imagined.  Billions of oriental people still believe they are real, and billions more in the west may, when they learn that dragons are integral parts of their theology despite the massive conspiracy to hide that fact.

Fluffy, I suggest you watch the dragon special again and listen this time.  While Dr. Jones didn't say he believed real dragons terrorized the native americans (and I didn't say that either), he did say legends and artifactual remains of fearsome dragon-like creatures could be found all across what is now the united states.  There was even a map with "regional" native american dragons, if you remember.  Piney said there were no native american dragons at all, and I said there were, and the TV Special with an esteemed expert PHD vindicated everything I said.  Get over it.

And then you, in a way insulted all of these cultures, maintaining that all the Indians saw were lizards, they are the "dragons" ha ha ha.  Aren't the Indians stupid?  Somehow you may believe you were ridiculing me, but all you ridiculed were the very native american "dragon" legends that Dr. Jones, spoke of.

I am still waiting for Piney to tell me that the Blackfoot Duck that turned into a horse legend is not authentic.  I am right about that too.  Some, if not all tribes had no idea that their horses came from the spanish, but instead had supernatural myths and legends about their origin.




#198    Yelekiah

Yelekiah

    Calcinatio des Königs

  • Member
  • 10,541 posts
  • Joined:03 Sep 2005

Posted 21 December 2005 - 02:12 AM

Quote


Indeed, I never backed off about the aborigeies.  Quite the opposite, most anthropologists woould include the Rainbow Snake in the pantheon of "dragon dieties".  The broadest definition of a dragon might be a "Supernatural Reptilian Creature".  A Chinese dragon is probably more lie the rainbow Snake than it is a European dragon.


Quote

I suspect at some time, the aboriginal rainbow serpent may have had a more dragon-like form for which we have no surviving evidence today.. .
"real" dragons had little compulsion to visit Australia, and therefore the rainbow serpent has nothing to do with dragon legends.

Is this what you guys are talking about? Just curious...

Posted Image

#199    Piney

Piney

    Educated Redskin

  • Member
  • 2,713 posts
  • Joined:22 Jul 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hopewell, New Jersey

  • Redbonz Stumpjumper from the swamps of Shamong

Posted 21 December 2005 - 02:18 AM

Quote



I have said this many times, and I will again regarding my sources.  At the time I wrote the bulk of the book I was a Department of Defense military Historian "overseas" and had no access to good english test libraries.

I am still waiting for Piney to tell me that the Blackfoot Duck that turned into a horse legend is not authentic.  I am right about that too.  Some, if not all tribes had no idea that their horses came from the spanish, but instead had supernatural myths and legends about their origin.


  You still by law have to give sources to publish it

  I never argued that with you. Military historian? What college? Agi quod agis  D.C. What historic  library?
  Interea existimatvit  ipse constituit morai Yelekiah..  wink2.gif  

  EDIT: knowing your major you should be able to answer Yel.........
  EDIT 2: and DC you should be able to know what I said to Yel studying in Europe and all...

  Lapi'che

Edited by Piney, 21 December 2005 - 02:32 AM.

Token Nanticoke
http://woodlandindia...orums/index.php
It takes a certain amount of sophistication to live primitive. Stupid people usually don't survive...............

"There aren't any Indians in New Jersey. Just some inbred ******* that live in the woods."

-Donald Trump

#200    Piney

Piney

    Educated Redskin

  • Member
  • 2,713 posts
  • Joined:22 Jul 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hopewell, New Jersey

  • Redbonz Stumpjumper from the swamps of Shamong

Posted 21 December 2005 - 02:50 AM

Proponit sua merita optime Yelekiah. Dedant D.C.


Lapi'che



  edit : come on D.C. Tell us.....

Edited by Piney, 21 December 2005 - 02:51 AM.

Token Nanticoke
http://woodlandindia...orums/index.php
It takes a certain amount of sophistication to live primitive. Stupid people usually don't survive...............

"There aren't any Indians in New Jersey. Just some inbred ******* that live in the woods."

-Donald Trump

#201    Fluffybunny

Fluffybunny

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,136 posts
  • Joined:24 Oct 2003
  • Gender:Male

  • "Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."
    Thomas Paine

Posted 21 December 2005 - 03:33 AM

DC, you are so far off base that you cannot respond to the very fair questions you are being asked...As has been pointed out by many others the responisibility is yours to show that what you say is true, and as of yet you have failed to do so.

I have already caught you in one lie in regards to what Dr. Jones said regarding NA tribes, although you do not seem to be willing to concede the matter and simply say that you were mistaken. If you were a true researcher on the matter you WOULD have access to your sources and be able to support your claims, but it appears to me that your claims of research are as false as your claims regarding native american tribes.

I and others are asking very simple questions that you are avoiding like the plague which tells me that you are not telling the truth.

In short; Put up, or shut up.

Time and time people come here making extreme claims and then offer endless reasons why they cannot support them. You are no different, and unless you offer the simple sources that you are being asked about, then I would guess that you will go down in UM history as yet another of the many arrogant know-it-alls, who in the end DID NOT.

I will give you a little longer to offer your sources, but at a certain point your ridiculous replies will push past the point of annoying all the way into full fledged attempts to goad people into arguments for arguments sake; that is not acceptable here.

Settle the matter and post your sources or concede that your were mistaken.



Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#202    draconic chronicler

draconic chronicler

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Banned
  • 6,229 posts
  • Joined:27 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 21 December 2005 - 01:59 PM

Illud Latine dici non potest, Piney.  (But close)

Quite coincidentally, probably my best known book is about the Roman Army, and if you watch many of the Roman oriented shows on the History Channel you have probably seen me being interviewed there.

Fluffy, I have no idea what you are talking about.  I concur with everything Dr. Jones said about Native American "dragon" legends being found throughout North America.  That's exactly why he was on the show if you missed the point.  Piney was the one who denied it all if you go back to the original post in crypto.  In fact, you are the one who made light about the indian legends being just nonsense with your nice, but inapproiate photos of inoffensive lizards and a decidedly pointless monkey wrench.


#203    micah-el

micah-el

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 91 posts
  • Joined:16 Nov 2005
  • Location:somewhere between Heaven and Hell

  • I am of a dualistic nature.

Posted 21 December 2005 - 05:13 PM

DemonWatcher asked:

Quote

But on the matter of proof, can you prove to me conclusively that what you or i have said have never been said before?
I am not joking prove to me that my phrases and your phrases and thos of others have never been said.
use as many obscure refernces as you wish but i guarentee that nothing written here is truly oiginal.


prove that what everyone has said so far has already been said. Prove to me your words are original thought and your own.


Quote

This is same person that believes his friend is a demon. Come on.


He happens to be a friend of mine, so never insult this person again. Ever.

now that is out of the way, i do not care where to find this information because with time and patience i could look through my libraries entire collection and find the very same information, as well as using my libraries extensive network, contact other schools and organiztions to gain the knowledge i desire.  You all have the ability to do so, so why should he spoon feed you all the sources when all you have to do is go to a search engine (any search engine) type in a few key words and pull up thousands of pieces of info, all on your screen.  All else fails, go to your local librarian adn ask them for assistance.

Edited by micah-el, 21 December 2005 - 05:15 PM.

I look at this world and see it needs a leader...

#204    Fluffybunny

Fluffybunny

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,136 posts
  • Joined:24 Oct 2003
  • Gender:Male

  • "Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."
    Thomas Paine

Posted 21 December 2005 - 06:39 PM

Quote


Fluffy, I have no idea what you are talking about.  I concur with everything Dr. Jones said about Native American "dragon" legends being found throughout North America.  That's exactly why he was on the show if you missed the point.  Piney was the one who denied it all if you go back to the original post in crypto.  In fact, you are the one who made light about the indian legends being just nonsense with your nice, but inapproiate photos of inoffensive lizards and a decidedly pointless monkey wrench.


It appears that you are not even familiar with Dr. Jones book. You keep leaning on the Discovery channel show, but have yet to even reference any detail from his book.

You haven't even read his work have you? w00t.gif You can't even post a single quote from him in regards to the matter. I bet you do not even own the book in question. I laughed so hard when I figured out that you are probably a kid who saw his show, read a few web pages and now consider yourself a "researcher" on the matter...

I have his book on a shelf about 10 feet away from me right now that would be able to both support some of your claims and destroy some of your claims with a few simple quotes and reference pages.

I will let the esteemed author and researcher do that work though. Had you been nice about it I could have helped you out, but your pomposity leads me to think that you should be hoisted on your own petard.

This is just so sad...hillarious, but equally sad.

The "decidedly pointless monkey wrench" is incredibly fitting for you.

You have become "decidely pointless" since being asked to supply sources for your claims. It appears that your arrogance has backfired on you, and now no one here gives you the smallest grain of credibility on this matter. You have been caught in a lie and can't get yourself out of it.

For the 23rd time, post your sources to back up your claims.


rolleyes.gif

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#205    micah-el

micah-el

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 91 posts
  • Joined:16 Nov 2005
  • Location:somewhere between Heaven and Hell

  • I am of a dualistic nature.

Posted 21 December 2005 - 06:53 PM

Uh, miss FluffyBunny, you just insulted someone, you called DC "a kid".
Breaking your own rules are we now?

I look at this world and see it needs a leader...

#206    The Skeptic Eric Raven

The Skeptic Eric Raven

    Master Blaster

  • Member
  • 11,065 posts
  • Joined:08 Dec 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gulf Coast of Mississippi. Missing TX.

  • One day love will find me.....

Posted 21 December 2005 - 06:57 PM

Quote


.
He happens to be a friend of mine, so never insult this person again. Ever.


Whatever. I am sooooo scared. Grow up and act like an adult. We simply want to know his sources. The old saying applys"Put up or shut up." no.gif

........the sleeper has awoken!
Sometimes we need a kick in the butt to wake us up. Well, I'm up now!Boo ya.


...there are many things in life that will capture your eye, but very few will capture your heart. These are the ones to pursue. These are the ones worth keeping..."

#207    micah-el

micah-el

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 91 posts
  • Joined:16 Nov 2005
  • Location:somewhere between Heaven and Hell

  • I am of a dualistic nature.

Posted 21 December 2005 - 07:06 PM

Quote


Whatever. I am sooooo scared. Grow up and act like an adult. We simply want to know his sources. The old saying applys"Put up or shut up." no.gif

excuse me, but that was a direct response to you, DemonWatcher won't be on for a few days as punishment for his little outburst earlier, and to say "put up or shut up" for the love of Christ "get of your high horse".

I look at this world and see it needs a leader...

#208    zandore

zandore

    EX-Christian

  • Member
  • 9,640 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan

  • “I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”
    Genghis Khan

Posted 21 December 2005 - 07:06 PM

Quote


Uh, miss FluffyBunny, you just insulted someone, you called DC "a kid".
Breaking your own rules are we now?

PSST Micah....That is MR FluffyBunny.....as in MALE

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy,
education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary.
Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear
of punishment and hope of reward after death."

Albert Einstein


Survey Says....


#209    micah-el

micah-el

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 91 posts
  • Joined:16 Nov 2005
  • Location:somewhere between Heaven and Hell

  • I am of a dualistic nature.

Posted 21 December 2005 - 07:10 PM

Quote


PSST Micah....That is MR FluffyBunny.....as in MALE

oh, well my mistake.  laugh.gif

I look at this world and see it needs a leader...

#210    The Skeptic Eric Raven

The Skeptic Eric Raven

    Master Blaster

  • Member
  • 11,065 posts
  • Joined:08 Dec 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gulf Coast of Mississippi. Missing TX.

  • One day love will find me.....

Posted 21 December 2005 - 07:11 PM

Quote


excuse me, but that was a direct response to you, DemonWatcher won't be on for a few days as punishment for his little outburst earlier, and to say "put up or shut up" for the love of Christ "get of your high horse".

I prefer to stay on my high horse. I see better that way.Also, the statement you were refering to was a truthful statement. I am just restating his beliefs.

Edited by ericraven2003, 21 December 2005 - 07:13 PM.

........the sleeper has awoken!
Sometimes we need a kick in the butt to wake us up. Well, I'm up now!Boo ya.


...there are many things in life that will capture your eye, but very few will capture your heart. These are the ones to pursue. These are the ones worth keeping..."




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users