Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Are legendary "dragons" really dinosaurs?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
217 replies to this topic

#46    zandore

zandore

    EX-Christian

  • Member
  • 9,640 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 08 December 2005 - 02:26 PM

QUOTE(DC)
Zandore,
as I said before, I am not that good with computers, linking, etc. and can't affor to spend the time goint back to all of my notes. you'll notice that I have never had other people's quotes in my messages either.
With respect right now.

If you have the ability to make posts here you can make links. The hardest part is typing the web address correctly (like you did to get here). If you can do that you can provide a link.

Now can you provide links like is asked? Or has all of your posts been just unsubstantiated personal opinions?



QUOTE(Vid)
Sorry Zandore, my bad! I thought w were still talking about book references...
Not a problem thumbsup.gif

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy,
education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary.
Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear
of punishment and hope of reward after death."

Albert Einstein


Survey Says....


#47    Dante The Hunter

Dante The Hunter

    Let The Hunt Begin..........

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,062 posts
  • Joined:13 Jul 2005
  • Location:The Deepest Bowels Of The Demonic Realm

  • The Gun-Slingin', Sword Swingin', White Haired Slayer of Those Who Wont Stay Dead

Posted 08 December 2005 - 07:08 PM

dragonllore is always fascinating

Posted Image
sig by the almighty Tiddlyjen, all praise!!!!!!
av by the merciful Barman, rock on man!!!

We Arent Tools Of The Government, Or Anyone Else. Fighting Was The Only Thing I Was Ever Any Good At, But Hell, At Least I Fought For What I Believed In

#48    zandore

zandore

    EX-Christian

  • Member
  • 9,640 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 08 December 2005 - 07:31 PM

Quote

dragonllore is always fascinating
Lore or myth?

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy,
education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary.
Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear
of punishment and hope of reward after death."

Albert Einstein


Survey Says....


#49    zandore

zandore

    EX-Christian

  • Member
  • 9,640 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 08 December 2005 - 08:58 PM

Quote


But not only are these unquestionably dragons, but other early christian literature clearly proves they are "heavenly dragons" commanded by God, .....

Commanded by God but still do battle with his angels?

Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy,
education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary.
Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear
of punishment and hope of reward after death."

Albert Einstein


Survey Says....


#50    frogfish

frogfish

    ஆங்கிலத்த&

  • Member
  • 11,142 posts
  • Joined:19 Sep 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Swamp

  • Flyfishing -- the Art of the Gods



Posted 08 December 2005 - 09:33 PM

The dragon as in Satan, which takes the form of a serpent...

-Frogfish-
Posted Image
Researcher-Prostate Cancer Oncogene Research
University of Michigan Comprehensive Cancer Center

The National Center for Biotech Information
My Photo Gallery: Capturing India

Fishing is a Way of Life!


#51    draconic chronicler

draconic chronicler

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Banned
  • 6,229 posts
  • Joined:27 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 09 December 2005 - 12:24 AM

Zandore,
I believe I have explained several times that that passage is copied almost verbatim from much older Zorastrian mythology.  This is undeniable.  And since you are so susicious about my sources , you may go to any site on Zorastrianism and you will see that I am right.  In Zorastrianism, the dragon that gets bound and cast into the pit for 1000 years is Ahriman and in Christianity the dragon is Satan.  In fact the Zorastrian version clarifies that the mysterious fire and brimstone spewing creatures that destroy a third of mankind in Revelation, are also dragons.  Everything I have stated referring to scriptures on these forums really do come from ancient scriptures..  You don't have to take my word for it, and I won't even expect you to buy the book.  Check it out in the library and then you can look up the sources like everyone else.



Frogfish,
you probably won't want to look that up because you will see how much of Revelation is just ripped of by St. John from Zorastrianism to get pagan converts for Christianity.  But I do have a theory that even though Revelation was clearly fake and plagiarised, there could still be a "divine" plan behind it.  Not that Satan is the villain, for nothing in the "real" Bible suggests this, but pagans "need" dualism with good and bad Gods dueling it out, so my adding this popular Zorastrian mythology to the Chrisitian dogma, gave the new religion the "spice" it needed.  Satan is merely "playing" a role because pagans desperately need both good and bad dieties, even if an omnipotent God would in reality never create bad dieties/servants.   But if you think the Zorastrians received spiritual enlightenment from God to write the same story hundreds of years before st. John, remember too that these same people said that the God of the Bible is also a Dragon!  But maybe that makes sense if we consider in Job that the dragon Satan is referred to as one of the "Sons of God".  Yes Frogfish, lonkg after the garden of Eden, but then, in the original Bible it never mentions Satan.

You still haven't told me why the oldest Catholic churches are full of "good" dragon imagery, and why some Popes made the dragon their personal heraldic emblems if they are the "symbol of Satan" as you believe.  It is because they are the highest heavenly servants, which those Popes and the great theologians of the church knew, but it was pointless trying to explain this to the peasant followers, much easier just to say all the angel are beautiful swan-winged angels imitated from pagan Greco-Roman mythology, as in "Roman" Catholicism.  But then, the Catholic Chruch is always changing their views to keep the masses of peasants obedient.

Edited by draconic chronicler, 09 December 2005 - 12:31 AM.


#52    micah-el

micah-el

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 91 posts
  • Joined:16 Nov 2005
  • Location:somewhere between Heaven and Hell

  • I am of a dualistic nature.

Posted 09 December 2005 - 12:24 AM

the war in Heaven is no where in the hebrew text the old testament is based upon, nor is it referenced in the old sumerian/babylonian stories.  The dragons were used here as evil because one such dragon was not exactly following the rules, though satan in the original hebrew text, is neither good nor bad.

I look at this world and see it needs a leader...

#53    DemonWatcher

DemonWatcher

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 413 posts
  • Joined:08 Sep 2005
  • Gender:Male

  • I am a Watcher who must endure, in order to see I must abide by the laws of time.

Posted 09 December 2005 - 01:15 AM

I don't understand why we in the west have such a fascination with dragons and still believe they are evil creatures, when so many stories and so much lore from our ancestors state they were neither good nor bad.  In most places where they left humans alone, they seem to be functioning as nothing more than Watcher's and Guardians.  However, where they were constantly messing with humans they were seen as hungry evil creatures, labeled as destroyers, monsters, hell-spawn, etc.  I, being a watcher myself(not the heavenly version), believe they were here making sure we did not do something really stupid, although they seem to have faltered in that duty as of late.  They were here, until we learned to control the skies.

I am a Watcher by birth, and so it should not surprise any when my observations are truthful.

History is where you confuse the long since deceased
And irritate the h**l out of the living.~ Golden Hawk

#54    Vidgange

Vidgange

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 332 posts
  • Joined:17 Nov 2005

Posted 09 December 2005 - 08:46 AM

Quote


  I, being a watcher myself(not the heavenly version), believe they were here making sure we did not do something really stupid, although they seem to have faltered in that duty as of late.  They were here, until we learned to control the skies.


That would be a rather interesting research! did dragonsigthings increase or decrease after airplanes became common? When did ppl see less and less of dragons? have got DC that answer?

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

#55    NightMoon

NightMoon

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 391 posts
  • Joined:11 Apr 2004
  • Gender:Female

Posted 09 December 2005 - 10:12 AM

All myth has a scientific basis of fact. Some of it we still yet don't understand. Ancient indo-Europeans had plenty of dragon stories, so did the people in the far east. Other places in the world had their godlike serpents and crocodiles. There must be a reason why the people regarded dragons as the most respected, feared and worshipped creature. Dragons are a myth but do they exist? not in this plane, but in a different dimension?

In the east, dragons are elemental and wise. They are so in the West but people in the west came to fear dragons (stories of sacrificing maidens to the dragon, dragons causing terror in villages, ect) must be because of the intoduction of christianity. All these scare stories in the west appeared at a time during the Dark Ages when the cross and the sword arrived. It was a time of violence and spiritual change, the dragon could be the representative of the old pagan times. St. George and the Dragon is an example of christianity's destructive end to the pagan beliefs. Dragons are not just a spiritual symbol.  Dragons appear on motives, flags, insignias, both within the military and politics.

Dragons do resemble dinosaurs. Whether or not some species of dinosaur had survived the extinction or not isn't the point. Dragons look like them, and it makes you wonder how ancient people "thought them up" if they were never supposed to have seen a dinosaur.

If dinosaurs had survived into recent times (or in history whenever humankind thrives) dinosaurs would not have been the same as they once war in the "last" of their rule, the cretateous period. For instance if T-Rex and their prey continued in that strip of land surviving until our own dawn, they would not look the same anymore. Dinosaurs changed their physical make-up, evolving with the climate and state of the environment. What that means is dinosaurs would have changed their appearance through the ages. However who is to say that we know what happened to them, and what happened in our own origins. The most popular Darwin theory is just a theory treated like a religion today. People who challange Darwin's theory of human origins are laughed at and publically chastised. Perhaps we did meet dinosaurs, but maybe we also met them on a psychic level.

The stuff about fire-breathing and wings came later on in history.
Dragons then might just be the remnants of a prehistoric past, a species that evolved as elementals that are invisible to the naked eye unless we go in spiritual trances, or these dragons could be a seperate species altogether.

Varg Vikerness believes that the world serpent is the equator.



#56    zandore

zandore

    EX-Christian

  • Member
  • 9,640 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 09 December 2005 - 02:57 PM

Quote


Zandore,
I believe I have explained several times that that passage is copied almost verbatim from much older Zorastrian mythology.  This is undeniable.  And since you are so susicious about my sources , you may go to any site on Zorastrianism and you will see that I am right.  In Zorastrianism, the dragon that gets bound and cast into the pit for 1000 years is Ahriman and in Christianity the dragon is Satan.  In fact the Zorastrian version clarifies that the mysterious fire and brimstone spewing creatures that destroy a third of mankind in Revelation, are also dragons.  Everything I have stated referring to scriptures on these forums really do come from ancient scriptures..  You don't have to take my word for it, and I won't even expect you to buy the book.  Check it out in the library and then you can look up the sources like everyone else.

So what you are saying is....."What I saying is the truth and if you do not believe me you can look it up for your self"?

Shame shame....even after saying you found some online!


Quote

7.   No plagiarism - Do not copy other people's work, either from this site or from another site, without properly acknowledging the original source or author; passing off other people's work as your own is plagiarism and will not be tolerated on the forum.
RULES

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy,
education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary.
Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear
of punishment and hope of reward after death."

Albert Einstein


Survey Says....


#57    Vidgange

Vidgange

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 332 posts
  • Joined:17 Nov 2005

Posted 10 December 2005 - 10:52 AM

Quote


However who is to say that we know what happened to them, and what happened in our own origins. The most popular Darwin theory is just a theory treated like a religion today. People who challange Darwin's theory of human origins are laughed at and publically chastised. Perhaps we did meet dinosaurs, but maybe we also met them on a psychic level.


Science, and amongst it Darwins theory, is far more accurate then any religion existing today - even if ppl find evidence of evolution in the bible. In my opinion (and I am not picking on some one, or their beliefs) ppl who deny evolution deserves to be laughed at... Praying to a God that has no sure proof of existens are far more naive then the theory of evolution. And the bible does not count as evidence since it's written by humans. Anyway, that's off topid ^^

Do we agree at any poin at all, we who discuss this subject? I'm on DC's line, in that aspect that if God exist Dragons do to...

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

#58    micah-el

micah-el

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 91 posts
  • Joined:16 Nov 2005
  • Location:somewhere between Heaven and Hell

  • I am of a dualistic nature.

Posted 10 December 2005 - 11:41 PM

Vindage, i too am with DC on this, even in science somethings have to be taken on some faith, because they are difficult to test.  To have blind faith is, however, more dangerous than to have faith in something that can be seen at any level.  Remember, even Darwin admitted that his theory may never be conclusively proven, because some aspects are hard to determine.

A true theory allows room for expansion and revision, most if not all scientific theories allow for changes to occur, though the scientists may be slow to change. Religion, however, does not allow for change, except as a forceful one time change (conversion).

Edited by micah-el, 10 December 2005 - 11:42 PM.

I look at this world and see it needs a leader...

#59    The Skeptic Eric Raven

The Skeptic Eric Raven

    Master Blaster

  • Member
  • 11,067 posts
  • Joined:08 Dec 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gulf Coast of Mississippi. Missing TX.

  • One day love will find me.....

Posted 10 December 2005 - 11:48 PM

To much Dungeon & Dragons. no.gif

........the sleeper has awoken!
Sometimes we need a kick in the butt to wake us up. Well, I'm up now!Boo ya.


...there are many things in life that will capture your eye, but very few will capture your heart. These are the ones to pursue. These are the ones worth keeping..."

#60    DemonWatcher

DemonWatcher

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 413 posts
  • Joined:08 Sep 2005
  • Gender:Male

  • I am a Watcher who must endure, in order to see I must abide by the laws of time.

Posted 11 December 2005 - 12:05 AM

What is that supposed to mean ericraven2003?

Please explain why you say this, so that we may understand your stnace of Dragons being real or nothing more than spiritual beings.

I am a Watcher by birth, and so it should not surprise any when my observations are truthful.

History is where you confuse the long since deceased
And irritate the h**l out of the living.~ Golden Hawk




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users