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Miracles


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#46    Paranoid Android

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Posted 24 December 2005 - 03:57 PM

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but you are making the assumption that science "has all the answers", that science is absolute.

science is a process.  it is only scientifically true until it is scientifically falsified.

edit: rolls,

when headless zombies walk into my room and steal my underwear i will assess how somebody slipped halucinogenics into my food.  My first process would be blood analysis for said drugs.
And you are making the assumption that everything has a scientifically explicable answer.


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#47    hyperactive

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Posted 24 December 2005 - 04:17 PM

yes!  if it is a part of the natural world which we are a part of, and there is no evidence to suggest anything is not, then a natural explanation is possible even if it is still outside of our grasp.


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#48    :rollseyes:

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Posted 24 December 2005 - 05:24 PM

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yes!  if it is a part of the natural world which we are a part of, and there is no evidence to suggest anything is not, then a natural explanation is possible even if it is still outside of our grasp.


unfortunately he is also right.

I once read a book comparing religion and science. Between other things it argumented that none of them could be said to hold the truth because everything that we attach to the religious can be explained by science and everything that we attach to science can be explained by religion. And it will always be like that sad.gif

Edited by :rollseyes:, 24 December 2005 - 05:28 PM.


#49    QueryAnalyzer

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Posted 25 December 2005 - 07:10 AM

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indeed, a "miracle" is in the eye of the beholder.  people seek to explain things, and when they can not, and from their limited perspective it seems like the event is something rare, it becomes "a miracle".  In other words, it is just another "fill the holes" explanation with no real validity.


I think science will never investigate some claims of miracles, because it totally contradicts the laws science has established. Science takes the approach to debunk the miracles as mass hysteria, or fake reports, but to accept that some miracles happened could be to commit heresy against science itself, attacking its own laws. So I don't think it is 'fill in the holes', I just think we are scare to accept that mayyyybe the laws we have inferred may be flawed. And just for the record, I am the type of person that go for the "fake report" idea, I think Fatima could be a conspiracy of the church or something like that to attract followers.

P.S. If the investigators at the MIT achieve to produce energy by cold fusion means, then it would be also considered a miracle, because it would contradict the laws of physics.

Edited by QueryAnalyzer, 25 December 2005 - 07:22 AM.


#50    QueryAnalyzer

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Posted 25 December 2005 - 07:20 AM

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err, any of you guys ever heard of Fatima, the biggest miracle since the Exodus? It as been recognised by the Vatican and it happened relatively recently (1917). I know a big deal about it and I'm willing to tell what happened if you don't mind.
Just a small intro:

70.000 witnesses
Hollywood-highest-budget special effects w00t.gif
No one as ever been able to give the slighest plausible explanation for it.
It involves predictions
Mass convertions after that incident
Mass healing
Many events related to that miracle have happened till our days



I am willing to hear more evidence on this miracle, like photos from newspapers back in 1917 reporting this phenomena. I am kind of skeptic but very open minded, I just want to see some evidence from different media sources.




#51    Paranoid Android

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Posted 25 December 2005 - 09:29 AM

QUOTE(hyperactive)
yes! if it is a part of the natural world which we are a part of, and there is no evidence to suggest anything is not, then a natural explanation is possible even if it is still outside of our grasp.
And as such, your worldview, by necessity, prevents a belief in miracles.  Right?

Edited by Paranoid Android, 25 December 2005 - 09:51 AM.

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#52    pipsta8080

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 09:25 AM

lets say that there is a person who is the #1 fan of a famous author. then one day This person is driving  by some cornfield in Iowa ( boondocks) and there is a car that broke down on the side of the road. the person with the broke down car is THE FAMOUS AUTHOR.Lets just say that both of these people FAN and Author don't even reside in Iowa but went there for another reason work, vacation etc.. The #1 fan cant believe it. Would this be considered a miracle? I know that some would break it down into..certain things are always possible even if there is 1,000,000,000,000,000 of a chance. But couldn't god have set up the meeting through his infinate knowledge...


#53    seanph

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 03:15 PM

I spent nearly fifteen years as a devout Christian ... and never once saw anything even remotely resembling a miracle.  That should not be the case according to the scriptures.  Miracles should happen on a constant basis, as they did in the scriptures.

They don't ... and that's for a reason.  They never happened to the ancients, either.

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#54    McKenna

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 05:37 PM

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Miracles...
There have been millions of claims of Miracles over the last few hundred years, but only sixty or so have been recocgnised by the Catholic Church as being actual miracles.

So my question is:
What IS a miracle? Why do they happen? Can they be explained scientifically? And has anyone on here ever experienced one? Do you believe in them? If you do or don't then why?

Ok, who's first?


I believe a miracle is a special event that takes place because so many people pray for a miracle and truly believe in god and his angels that he sees no other way fit then to give them what they want and really need(miracle).

They happen because so many people believe in god and his angels. that god loves and knows that we are his children and he doesnt want to see us suffer so much because he loves us dearly with all of his heart. that he creates a miracle so that we dont have to suffer so much. because we are gods children and he loves us so much.

no i dont think they can be explain scientificly. because i believe it is truly a special gift sent by god and his angels because of the love he has for us.

yes i have experienced one although i was just a baby and new in the world i was the main reason why god preformed a miracle on me so that i would live and be given the gift of life.

yes i do believe in miracles. because god is watching out for us weather god is one or athoused they or him are still watching out for us his or their children. because even though he or they or only just one or athousand. he or they still love us and we still are their or his children. and nothing could or will ever change that.




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#55    vampirate

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 10:14 AM

So if God doesn't want to see us suffer, then why not make miracles happen to everyone who goes to Church or prays, or has a strong belief in their particular religion?

Miracles only seem to happen to certain people, and even to people who don't believe in God. Why would this be?

Everything has a scientific explanation? Thats a very depressing thought  crying.gif


#56    Paranoid Android

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 10:21 AM

^^Because God cannot be found in a building.  God cannot be found in an organization.  God is within the heart of believers.

God does not do miracles because he's kind to those who follow Him.  Miracles always happen for a reason, and never to simply just say "F*** you, I'm God and I can do whatever I want".

Regards, PA



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#57    ShaunZero

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 10:30 AM

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"F*** you, I'm God and I can do whatever I want".



LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where in the hell did that come from?! XD!!!!! I really didn't expect that one.

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#58    Paranoid Android

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 10:43 AM

Sorry, I'm just in one of those moods tonight hmm.gif

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#59    ShaunZero

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 10:51 AM

Yeah, but don't get the wrong idea. I only thought it was funny. I didn't expect that out of you.

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#60    McKenna

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 05:07 PM

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So if God doesn't want to see us suffer, then why not make miracles happen to everyone who goes to Church or prays, or has a strong belief in their particular religion?

Miracles only seem to happen to certain people, and even to people who don't believe in God. Why would this be?

Everything has a scientific explanation? Thats a very depressing thought  crying.gif


because sometimes god has a different plan for those who dont get miracles


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