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why do we still call dinosaurs primitive


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#1    cyrus11

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 10:05 PM

why do we still call dinosaurs primitive?
because they were long extinct before our existance?
if we were one day to go extinct, and the world was then dominated by intelligent roaches 65 million years later, is it fair for them to call us primitive?
dinosaurs might have been one of the most if not the most advanced vertebrates ever produced. no land animal before or since has ever gotten that large, and diverse.
no land animal before or since has the growth rate of the dinosaurs.
it's physiology must have been impressive. yet we still call them primitive reptiles while turtles, crocs, tuatuas, lizards, amphibians, and even some mammals are more primitive than dinosaurs. what gives?
they were here and were the most advanced for hundreds of millions of years till they were wiped out. all that is left are the birds.  we mammals just had our second real spurt in evolution after the dinosaur died out, and we are barely trying to catch their rein record.
we need to re-think what it means to be primitive.


#2    frogfish

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 12:29 AM

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why do we still call dinosaurs primitive

Because they WERE primitive. They didn't understand concepts. Eat. Reproduce. Survive. That's is what dinosurs thought. Yes, they are one of the most diverse species, but that does not have to do with primitive.

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we need to re-think what it means to be primitive

No, your idea of "primitive" is wrong.

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#3    lkayn

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 09:53 AM

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Because they WERE primitive. They didn't understand concepts. Eat. Reproduce. Survive. That's is what dinosurs thought. Yes, they are one of the most diverse species, but that does not have to do with primitive.
No, your idea of "primitive" is wrong.

WE don't know what they did. We KNOW what they ate. THEY have concepts. Since they don't live, WE do not know how they're brain works. THEY could've been smarter than us. WE give ourselves to much credit for inventing things, when Dinosaurs could've done it long before us. I'm not saying like all this advanced technology. I mean long ago, when they were all Neandethal's and stuff. Dinosaurs could've had the same thing, but it was destroyed along with them.


#4    cyrus11

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 09:49 PM

dinosaurs were not primitive. they were the most advanced biomechanically. sure we are smarter, but i doubt our biomechanics or even most mammal's can function more efficiently than dinosaurs and birds.. and birds now starting being considered as modern avian therapods.
the dinos finished the race first.. the mammals are barely starting it. to say that they are primitive cus they lived long ago and died long ago is wrong. why can't an organism be advanced millions of years ago? they were advanced long before we ever became into existance.


#5    lkayn

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 10:14 PM

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dinosaurs were not primitive. they were the most advanced biomechanically. sure we are smarter, but i doubt our biomechanics or even most mammal's can function more efficiently than dinosaurs and birds.. and birds now starting being considered as modern avian therapods.
the dinos finished the race first.. the mammals are barely starting it. to say that they are primitive cus they lived long ago and died long ago is wrong. why can't an organism be advanced millions of years ago? they were advanced long before we ever became into existance.


Exactly. Why?


#6    frogfish

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 11:52 PM

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THEY have concepts.

No they don't They lack the parts of the brain that can recognize and process concepts...

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THEY could've been smarter than us.

Sadly, impossible.

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dinosaurs were not primitive. they were the most advanced biomechanically.

We call them primitive because of what I said above...they are not as intelluctually advanced. now lets look at biomechanics.

Humans have a 4 chambered heart, dinosaurs had a 3 chambered heart.
1 for Humans

Humans had opposable thumbs, dinosuars did not..
2 for humans.

Dinosaurs had a more developed Temporal, Parietal, and Olfactory lobe. Humans don't.
1 for Dinos

Humans have a much larger frontal lobe.
1 for Humans

Size does not matter, so does teeth and claws, as those are specialized.

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the dinos finished the race first.. the mammals are barely starting it.

So?

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to say that they are primitive cus they lived long ago and died long ago is wrong

Yes, that is wrong, but its NOT wrong to say that because humans are more developed than dinosaurs.

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why can't an organism be advanced millions of years ago?

They can... but the organism would still have to be living today...like a croc. Crocs are advanced in the way that they are the only "reptile" with a 4 chambered heart...actually, crocs are very close to birds.

If yoiu know abou evolution...the later time goes on, he more advanced the animals get. So in 2 million years, the animals then will see us as primitive compared to them...and I don't have any problem with that!

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#7    cyrus11

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 11:55 PM

not true..
no lizard, snake, croc, turtle, ceolocanth, tuatua, snail, squid, or any animal that started before dinosaurs and are still alive today are as advanced biomechanically as the dinosaurs


#8    frogfish

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 11:57 PM

So? No snail, lizard, fish alive now in not as advanced as us...They all don't have to be the same...
Bottom line is...Dinosaurs are not as advanced as humans...therefore, they are referred to as primitive.

Edited by frogfish, 13 January 2006 - 11:57 PM.

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#9    cyrus11

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 12:00 AM

any velociraptor can out perform a human being physically today.
they are just more advanced than us mammals.
they have a physiology similar if not the same as birds.... and birds use and metabolize oxygem more efficently than mammals.


#10    BurnSide

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 12:05 AM

Any dog can out run a human today. Are they more advanced than humans?


#11    frogfish

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 12:14 AM

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and birds use and metabolize oxygem more efficently than mammals.

No, we have the same. Velociraptors are no like birds in he first place. The have a 3 CHAMBERED HEART...which means they are cold-blooded and don't utilize oxygen and energy as effecien as mammals and birds.

Exactly Burnside!

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#12    cyrus11

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 12:25 AM

actually velociraptors are believed to have a 4 chambered heart. and have non flight feathers which insulates their body.. hollow bones with air sac chambers like birds today.
even the duck billed dinosaurs have a 4 chambered heart and they are not as closely related to birds as velociraptors. they did a CT scan on a hardrosaur mummy called "leonardo" and found it to have a 4 chambered heart.


#13    frogfish

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 12:36 AM

The heart cavity left by the fossil indicates a small 3 chambered heart.
I never knew leonardo underwent a CT scan...link please. I could not find it.

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#14    Kaizen

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 05:09 AM

I agree with cyrus.  I don't know anything about the fossilized heart cavity (source?)  but I do know that there is evidence that they had may have had a diaphram like mammals.  Besides, the skeletal structure of alot of dinosars indicate that they must have been quite active.  Compare their skeletons to any reptile today.  All reptiles have a low-slung sprawling posture.  Far from anything like velociraptor and any dinosaur like it.  Infact, I don't even consider dinosaurs to be reptiles.

Just because they died out does not mean that they were any more primitive than most animals alive today.

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#15    Neo2005

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 05:16 AM

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Any dog can out run a human today. Are they more advanced than humans?

That's a really good point.
Just because fish breathe water deosn;t mean they're more evolved than us.
Plus the world has changed so much in 65 million years that it's crazy for us to say their primitive when their not even comparable to our time now





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