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why do we still call dinosaurs primitive


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#31    frogfish

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 04:09 PM

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first of all.. dinosaurs are not primitive reptiles.. they are more advanced than any modern, well i should say (surviving) reptiles.

having opposable thumbs does not mean we are more advanced. it just means that thumb helps us do what humans do better than anthing, else.. that we know of yet..

bigger brains does not mean we are more advanced..(neanderthals have bigger brains and they were extinct also)

bigger eyes doesn't make a creature more advanced... squids have eyes bigger than our own in comparison to bodymass... and they are not more advanced than a bat.

If you say that? ^

What makes you say this?

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what i mean by advanced is that total metabolism and the transferrance of energy and growth rate and whatever biomechanical that help the animal grow, live, move, whatever..

Sponges are practically one of the fastest growing organisms alongside kelp, plus sponges are practically immortal...does that make them more advanced then dinos? By your logic, you probably will say yes, right?

Biomechanically, humans are more advanced. Our organs are more specialized then many dinosaurs, who would have to eat every waking moment (sauropods). Humans don't. Our eyes are also more adept than dinosaur eyes, as ours ae forward facing. We have evolved to walk upright, and don't need a tail anymore. We can reproduce faster, we can convert energy more effeciently. What else do you want?

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#32    frogfish

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 04:10 PM

If you think humans should be humble, I would like to see you and humble yourself to a sponge, as they grow much more effieciently than dinosaurs.

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#33    distortedpandy

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 06:18 PM

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why do we still call dinosaurs primitive?

Because they came before us

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because they were long extinct before our existance?


yes, as stated above, they came before us...see below

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Adjective

primitive

   1. Of or pertaining to the beginning or origin, or to early times; original; primordial; primeval; first; as, primitive innocence; the primitive church.

Original; primary; radical; not derived; as, primitive verb in grammar.


Source - The dictionary

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if we were one day to go extinct, and the world was then dominated by intelligent roaches 65 million years later, is it fair for them to call us primitive?


IMO - yes, because we would have been first (meaning before said roaches)  yes.gif


Who knows, they may have been more advanced...cool for them but that doesn't mean they were not primitive to us -- but then again, this is just my opinion original.gif

Edited by distortedpandy, 16 January 2006 - 06:20 PM.


#34    angrycrustacean

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 07:11 PM

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If you think humans should be humble, I would like to see you and humble yourself to a sponge


That made my day. laugh.gif

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#35    frogfish

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 09:02 PM

Funny thing is, I was serious yes.gif

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#36    fantazum

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 11:50 PM

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why do we still call dinosaurs primitive?
because they were long extinct before our existance?
if we were one day to go extinct, and the world was then dominated by intelligent roaches 65 million years later, is it fair for them to call us primitive?
dinosaurs might have been one of the most if not the most advanced vertebrates ever produced. no land animal before or since has ever gotten that large, and diverse.
no land animal before or since has the growth rate of the dinosaurs.
it's physiology must have been impressive. yet we still call them primitive reptiles while turtles, crocs, tuatuas, lizards, amphibians, and even some mammals are more primitive than dinosaurs. what gives?
they were here and were the most advanced for hundreds of millions of years till they were wiped out. all that is left are the birds.  we mammals just had our second real spurt in evolution after the dinosaur died out, and we are barely trying to catch their rein record.
we need to re-think what it means to be primitive.


excellent post. I applaud your logic. Of course it is rubbish to describe the dinosaurs as primitive when they were the longest lived and most evolved creature ever to have existed on this planet. I suspect that they even evolved to the point where they developed both mammalian and reptilian characteristics.. and the larger sauropods could not have lived had they not evolved a superp skeleton and physiology.
They are called 'primitive' because they are believed to have had small brains....but as we now know,  a small brain doesnt mean your dumb.


#37    FrothyDog

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 12:16 AM

biologically, the term primitive means it has changed the least in comparison to other similar creatures.  the term usually has to do with the number and arrangement of teeth and stuff like that.  calling something primitive is not an attack.  it does not mean the creature was slow or stupid.  it just means it was more similar to its ancestors than, say, the small rodents that were popping up at the time.


#38    frogfish

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 01:38 AM

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most evolved creature ever to have existed on this planet

I beg to differ...any bird or mammal is more evolved than they are.

His logic implies that evolution does not advance a species...it does! How can you not be more advanced after evolving for 65 MYA since the last dino? Evolution improves, not degrades!

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#39    Kaizen

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 05:40 AM

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My sources is the opinion of many respected scientists, as Kirland and Horner. Also the fact that they're reptiles. Just because one species of dino has a 4 chambered heart doesn't mean all do. Crocs have 4-chambered hearts...they're still cold-blooded.


Jack Horner has been criticized for saying alot of things in order to gain attention.

Again, some people (including myself) don't consider dinosaurs to be reptiles.

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Actually it would be very possible for display. Just as much as the sail. They both evolved for some purpose. the more area covered with feathers, the more youyr potential mate can see....just like how bigger horns for a impala today wins mates.


But not ONLY* for display.  A sail is just an extension of the vertebrea.  Feathers are a far more complex modification.  They are designed to lock together in order to keep in body heat.  If they were only for display it would have made more sense for them to simply evolve longer, brighter scales rather than something that is so complex.

I think it is folly for us to believe that humans are far more perfect than any other creature.  Humans walk upright on two legs.  But guess what, there is a price.  The price comes in the form of horrible back pain, hemoroids, poor speed and clumsyness.  Human eyes aren't that good either, birds' eyes are better.  Human hearing and scence of smell aren't that great.  We are warm blooded and have large brains, but we require plunty of nutricion.   Throw a group of humans out into a baren, burning desert.  Do you they will fair better in that environment than snakes?  I mean no offense Frogfish, but I think your creationist beliefs effect the way you view nature.  You see humans as that divine spark in the universe, while I see humans as just another animal.  Yes, a very special animal, but still an animal just the same. wink2.gif

* = keyword

Edited by Kaizen, 17 January 2006 - 05:48 AM.

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#40    Conspiracy

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 03:32 PM

dinosaurs were most advanced in strength and speed, some species of dinosaurs are proved to be extremly smart and would have been the next intelligent life if they werent wiped out.

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#41    frogfish

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 04:32 PM

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I think it is folly for us to believe that humans are far more perfect than any other creature. Humans walk upright on two legs. But guess what, there is a price. The price comes in the form of horrible back pain, hemoroids, poor speed and clumsyness. Human eyes aren't that good either, birds' eyes are better. Human hearing and scence of smell aren't that great. We are warm blooded and have large brains, but we require plunty of nutricion. Throw a group of humans out into a baren, burning desert. Do you they will fair better in that environment than snakes? I mean no offense Frogfish, but I think your creationist beliefs effect the way you view nature. You see humans as that divine spark in the universe, while I see humans as just another animal. Yes, a very special animal, but still an animal just the same.  

Depends what you think as primitive...the ability to make technology and understand concepts is unsurpassed by humans.

I agree too that dinosaurs are a very special breed of archosaurs. they shouldn't even be considered as reptiles. It a common misconception that crocodillians are reptiles. They are not. They evolved on two seperate pathways/

Edited by frogfish, 17 January 2006 - 04:33 PM.

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#42    fantazum

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 09:02 AM

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Depends what you think as primitive...the ability to make technology and understand concepts is unsurpassed by humans.

I agree too that dinosaurs are a very special breed of archosaurs. they shouldn't even be considered as reptiles. It a common misconception that crocodillians are reptiles. They are not. They evolved on two seperate pathways/


odd that we humans in our arrogance and ignorance consider ourselves to be the most highly evolved species when we have singularly failed to create a cohesive society,or live in harmony with our environment and evolve without destroying the very source that gives us life.Hmmm I guess its the way you look at it...


#43    The Nameless One

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 02:13 PM

Heres a cool link.

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/...saurintell.html

One night I ventured to my wooden rocking chair right outside my back porch, and I looked to the sky in the break of twilight, staring into the dark mirror of space, filled with sands of star dust, colossal supernovas and red giants, strings of wormholes and distant planets beyond my grasp. A place where tiny enigmatic hidden black holes tear through the fabric of space and time which, who knows; may lead into other dimensions and perhaps alternate realities. And as I look up at this heavens mirror which my hands can only reach so far through this looking glass, I felt an odd sensation of something looking back staring into my own eyes, staring into a whole other universe of which I new nothing about until I saw my reflection within it, and in that moment I then knew that the key which open the portal doors to parallel worlds was myself.    "The Eyes of the Universe, Chris Landrum"

#44    fantazum

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 11:09 PM

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I beg to differ...any bird or mammal is more evolved than they are.

His logic implies that evolution does not advance a species...it does! How can you not be more advanced after evolving for 65 MYA since the last dino? Evolution improves, not degrades!


did you actually read my post or did you just  just read what you wanted to read?


#45    frogfish

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 11:19 PM

Yes, I have read your post...Reptilian feature are a disadvantage towards mammals...True mammals have the full advantage over reptiles. Evolution does not "devolve" animals either...

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