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why do we still call dinosaurs primitive


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#61    Kaizen

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 03:31 AM

[quote name='frogfish' date='Jan 31 2006, 08:46 PM' post='1043422']
Here you go...[/quote]

Yes, I fully agree....so?  

It's not like I was arguing with you about that.

[quote]Yessir![/quote]

yes.gif

[quote]What are dinosaurs more advnaced than us in? Growth? Kepl grows up to 3 feet a day, that doesn't mean kelp is more advanced than us...[/quote]

We are not phyisicly more advanced than dinosaurs in EVERY aspect, but as you say our intelligence makes up for that.  Again you are assuming that I'm saying that dinosaurs were more advanced then humans.  I am not.  You seem to assume alot of things about me, just as I assumed that your ideas had a Christian bias (see below).

[quote]I  Agree that humans are just as much animal as anything else, [quote]

YOU FINALLY SAID IT!!!!   w00t.gif  clap.gif

[quote]but the POINT of this thread is whether or not dinosaurs are more advanced than humans, my friend.[/quote]

I believe the creator of this topic asking why dinosaurs are called primitive, not that dinosaurs are more advanced than humans.   I just noticed you made a few statements about dinosaurs being cold blooded and such and I just decided to point out how you were wrong.  That is why I'm here.   If you would like to continue that debate in another thread then be my guest, my man.

[quote]How? rolleyes.gif[/quote]

I wasn't accusing you of such, I just thought it was a possibility is all.  Beings you agreed to the fact that humans are just as much as animal then looks I was wrong to think that about you.   wink2.gif

Edited by Kaizen, 01 February 2006 - 03:33 AM.

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#62    frogfish

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 10:18 PM

Quote

We are not phyisicly more advanced than dinosaurs in EVERY aspect, but as you say our intelligence makes up for that. Again you are assuming that I'm saying that dinosaurs were more advanced then humans. I am not. You seem to assume alot of things about me, just as I assumed that your ideas had a Christian bias (see below).

Gotcha..

Quote

I wasn't accusing you of such, I just thought it was a possibility is all. Beings you agreed to the fact that humans are just as much as animal then looks I was wrong to think that about you.

Same here yes.gif

Quote

I just noticed you made a few statements about dinosaurs being cold blooded and such and I just decided to point out how you were wrong. That is why I'm here. If you would like to continue that debate in another thread then be my guest, my man.

Even if ALL dinosaurs DID have 4 chambered hearts, that doesn't mean they are warm-blooded...Crocs have a 4 chambered heart too...

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#63    RedX

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 10:38 PM

Let's see...

Let's...


QUOTE
So if I or anyone else said "humans can only think of whatever" would just be a pure egotrip of a statement to say. I could very whele tell you a story of how my dog out smarted me with a trick that had to have been plained out.


QUOTE
But to who ever said that we are the only animals that can do so-an-so in our minds I have to say that that is a good example of what our ego has become.


You contradict yourself  So I think your statements are more close-minded.

Were have I done that?I was just saying that we don't know what gos on in other animals minds. Please, don't try to flip what I asked you on me.


QUOTE
So we evoled to do one think and one thing well...which is to use tools

So you deny that you have intelligence, that you have reasoning? So you think that yourself and others are just dumb, tool-wielding brutes?

What are you talking about? All animals can reason and are intelligent for what they do to live. and what would you say your day to day life revols around...tools.

The only reason you can see this is by using tools. What do you eat, work, go from point a-b-c with? TOOLS!!! And guess what...we are intelligent in the area of useing tools to do things to live and finding new ways to use them. Just like a wolf pact would be great at hunting and tracking down pray. Our lives depin on the use of tools... so what would you say we have evoled to be best at?

p.s. We are not (all) as smart and civil as we think...Ill leave you with that to think about oh great human.

Edited by RedX, 02 February 2006 - 10:41 PM.


#64    frogfish

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 01:50 AM

Quote

Were have I done that?I was just saying that we don't know what gos on in other animals minds. Please, don't try to flip what I asked you on me.

I just showed you no.gif tsk tsk...

Quote

What are you talking about? All animals can reason and are intelligent for what they do to live. and what would you say your day to day life revols around...tools.

The only reason you can see this is by using tools. What do you eat, work, go from point a-b-c with? TOOLS!!! And guess what...we are intelligent in the area of useing tools to do things to live and finding new ways to use them. Just like a wolf pact would be great at hunting and tracking down pray. Our lives depin on the use of tools... so what would you say we have evoled to be best at?

p.s. We are not (all) as smart and civil as we think...Ill leave you with that to think about oh great human.

Again, so humans are just dumb, tool wielding brutes? Answer my question. We can adapt faster than any animal, we are definitelly the most intelligent animal ever on earth. Our social structure is unrivaled, our civilization, goverment, bonds, unmatched!

Quote

Our lives depin on the use of tools... so what would you say we have evoled to be best at?

The ability to think, to learn, the ability to use our knowledge to survive.
Our lives don't depend on tools...they depend on our minds.

Chimps use tools, do they depend on them? No.

Quote

p.s. We are not (all) as smart and civil as we think...Ill leave you with that to think about oh great human.

But were are definitely smarter than the rest of life ever on earth. Well, maybe except for you....you said yourself that a dog outsmarted you...rolleyes.gif

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#65    cyrus11

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 02:12 AM

take example. assuming we humanity somehow gone extinct in a few years as a result of war or plague or whatever....   and the surviving simians and apes evolved, for 10s of thousands of years and finally get to what we were technologically in the early 1900s.... when they dug up our fossils and study us and label us as "primitive" because we existed long ago and went extinct. do you think that kind of mentality is correct?
even though biologically we were more evolved and advanced, but the simple notion that sice we lived lonnng ago, we had to be primitive.  the same can be applied to dinosaurs.. who lived long ago before any mammals evolved any grapes large enough to walk in the daylight. for the most of the 160 million years. mammalian evolution was pretty stagnant..because they were simply out competed from the get go.  when the dinos were running around erect on their legs with warm blooded bird like metabolisms, most mammals were still scurrying around on all 4s like possoms.. just plain slow.
dino/birds evolved the first micro-processor; their brains..( a raven has the problem solving capacity of a 5 yr old child, compare brain size with a human child.. you get the idea.) we barely started to develope the same design, using tools, 65 million years after they have died out.
so we humans must re-think the meaning of primitive. do not let egos and religious dogma get in the way of the truth. just because one species died out long ago does not automatically make it primitive.


#66    frogfish

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 01:59 AM

Quote

take example. assuming we humanity somehow gone extinct in a few years as a result of war or plague or whatever.... and the surviving simians and apes evolved, for 10s of thousands of years and finally get to what we were technologically in the early 1900s.... when they dug up our fossils and study us and label us as "primitive" because we existed long ago and went extinct. do you think that kind of mentality is correct?

Not until they surpassed us, as WE did surpass dinos. yes.gif

Quote

who lived long ago before any mammals evolved any grapes large enough to walk in the daylight. for the most of the 160 million years. mammalian evolution was pretty stagnant..because they were simply out competed from the get go. when the dinos were running around erect on their legs with warm blooded bird like metabolisms, most mammals were still scurrying around on all 4s like possoms.. just plain slow.

no.gif Mammals have evolved longers before any dinosaurs ever! The synapsids ruled before dinosaurs ever evolved. Mammal evolution WAS NOT stagnant...I suggest you actually do research before you say that. While the dinosaurs were still evolving (no bigger than lizards),  the synapsids evolved into therapsids. Mammal evolution thrived, as dicynodonts and cynodonts evolved and thrived. These later became modern mammals when prosauropods evolved!

What makes you think mammals didn't have brains, and that dinos were the first to evolve brains? That it purely idiotic. Second, Mammals weren't slow. Just because dinosaurs were'nt bigger, doesn't mean they were faster. What makes 4 legs worse than two, and since when does that make them slow? Cheetahs are not bipedal. Third, dinosaurs are not warm-blooded (well, at least not proven yet thumbsup.gif)

Quote

dino/birds evolved the first micro-processor; their brains..( a raven has the problem solving capacity of a 5 yr old child, compare brain size with a human child.. you get the idea.) we barely started to develope the same design, using tools, 65 million years after they have died out.

What's your point? We are more advanced than dinosaurs yes.gif

Quote

so we humans must re-think the meaning of primitive. do not let egos and religious dogma get in the way of the truth. just because one species died out long ago does not automatically make it primitive.

But being more advanced than them does grin2.gif yes.gif

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#67    RedX

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 07:19 AM

Were have I done that?I was just saying that we don't know what gos on in other animals minds. Please, don't try to flip what I asked you on me.[/i]

I just showed you  tsk tsk...

Sorry dude but Im not going to agru for you. If you showed me anything in that qoute it's that I have had the same veiw point from my frist post too last. If YOU see something else then please share and give me a complete explaination of whats wrong so that I can talk about it. Or you could keep on sounding like a smart A with no agrument. huh.gif

QUOTE
What are you talking about? All animals can reason and are intelligent for what they do to live. and what would you say your day to day life revols around...tools.

The only reason you can see this is by using tools. What do you eat, work, go from point a-b-c with? TOOLS!!! And guess what...we are intelligent in the area of useing tools to do things to live and finding new ways to use them. Just like a wolf pact would be great at hunting and tracking down pray. Our lives depin on the use of tools... so what would you say we have evoled to be best at?

p.s. We are not (all) as smart and civil as we think...Ill leave you with that to think about oh great human.


Again, so humans are just dumb, tool wielding brutes? Answer my question. We can adapt faster than any animal, we are definitelly the most intelligent animal ever on earth. Our social structure is unrivaled, our civilization, goverment, bonds, unmatched!

...Why do you keep trying to put words in my mouth no.gif ? All I ever said was that humans, like all animals, evoled to do what they do best. But you might feel like were all just "dumb, tool wielding brutes" yourself seeing as how much you say that statement hmm.gif .
How are we the fastest adapting animals??? If I took you from your home and put you in the coldest...no, just a snow covered cold place with no one around for miles will you last the night or 2-3 days? Same for the rain forest, desert or even just a really bad/gotta hood in the inner city of chicago tongue.gif ? Im not even going to go into the rest of the stuff because if you live were I live then you would know that the poorer the area the more civilazation/ government go down and the more "beast like" the great human becomes...but thats off topic grin2.gif .


QUOTE
Our lives depin on the use of tools... so what would you say we have evoled to be best at?

[b]The ability to think, to learn, the ability to use our knowledge to survive.
Our lives don't depend on tools...they depend on our minds.
Chimps use tools, do they depend on them? No.[/b]

Hummm you do know that ALL animals have to think, learn and use their knowledge to survive...right huh.gif ? How do lions kill animals 2x their size?
Our lives DO depend on tools. If we all just up and stoped useing tools we wouldn't even be able to get in and out our homes thought the doors...our kill any real pray...or get away from wild animals (seeing as how we wouldn't beable to use Keys,guns or cars). The fact that you said that tells me something about you happy.gif  rolleyes.gif .
Think of it this way (Im going to say it real slow so that you can see what I mean thumbsup.gif ).
If a lion was after you and you had a hunting gun and a sword next to you which would you use...
A. A hunting gun
B. A sword
C. Your hands

With what I understand you think we don't need tools to live so you would choose C and use the power of your mind to kill the lion or make a get-a-way. But everyone knows A and B are the best to choose. Maybe you know some hand-to-hand combat that will stop a lion hmm.gif .

Also, we have evloed to HAVE to use tools, chimps have not. They still have ways of getting what they need with out tools...we don't (big difference). That tells me something about you also happy.gif .


QUOTE
p.s. We are not (all) as smart and civil as we think...Ill leave you with that to think about oh great human.

But were are definitely smarter than the rest of life ever on earth. Well, maybe except for you....you said yourself that a dog outsmarted you...

LOL, thats funny mellow.gif . You took a statement that I used to show that other animals can make complex movement paths and plain out events in their minds as a way to attack me. Maybe you should have took it up a lil and asked me just how did this happen (I said I would be happy to tell anyone who wants to know). Im not ashame of that because I know that everyone would have been tricked by that great display of intellgents.

Oh yeah. The fact that your starting to attack me tells me that you are losing things to say. That makes me happy grin2.gif  cool.gif  happy.gif LOL.
(Personal attacks are a sign of losing. But any that you may think I have done on you came purely from your attack on me. O.K? thumbsup.gif )



#68    frogfish

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 08:26 PM

Quote

Sorry dude but Im not going to agru for you. If you showed me anything in that qoute it's that I have had the same veiw point from my frist post too last. If YOU see something else then please share and give me a complete explaination of whats wrong so that I can talk about it. Or you could keep on sounding like a smart A with no agrument.  

no.gif Learn to read...You said "So if I or anyone else said "humans can only think of whatever" would just be a pure egotrip of a statement to say" Humans ARE the only ones than can understand abstract thinking, spatial thinking, and the sciences. Its a waste of my time to argue with you. You lack knowledge neccesary to participate in a intelligent discussion.

Quote

...Why do you keep trying to put words in my mouth  ? All I ever said was that humans, like all animals, evoled to do what they do best. But you might feel like were all just "dumb, tool wielding brutes" yourself seeing as how much you say that statement  .
How are we the fastest adapting animals??? If I took you from your home and put you in the coldest

Again, do some research before you even debate. Humans evolved to become the most intelligent animals ever. Tools are just a by-product. They make life easier. Humans CAN live without tools. Of course, some are so spoiled that it would be impossible, but those with the greatest minds and will can.

Quote

If I took you from your home and put you in the coldest...no, just a snow covered cold place with no one around for miles will you last the night or 2-3 days? Same for the rain forest, desert or even just a really bad/gotta hood in the inner city of chicago  

Yes yes.gif I live in inner-city Detroit....Its already impossible to move around with all the traffic...I have to walk.

Quote

Im not even going to go into the rest of the stuff because if you live were I live then you would know that the poorer the area the more civilazation/ government go down and the more "beast like" the great human becomes...but thats off topic

You seem to know nothing about genetics, Living in poverty doesn't affect your genetics...it affects your psychology. Power of the Situation..
As I said before, read up before you debate.... If you do choose to read up on his topic, you will clearly see my point. Its taxing to argue with someone who doesn't know what they speak of.

Quote

Hummm you do know that ALL animals have to think, learn and use their knowledge to survive...right  ? How do lions kill animals 2x their size?
Our lives DO depend on tools. If we all just up and stoped useing tools we wouldn't even be able to get in and out our homes thought the doors...our kill any real pray...or get away from wild animals
Again, our lives don't depend on tools...no animal does. Evolution doesn't evolve for tools...but it does for intelligence.


QUOTE
If a lion was after you and you had a hunting gun and a sword next to you which would you use...
A. A hunting gun
B. A sword
C. Your hands

C, I go hunting and fishing up north....if a bull moose is charging, nothing can stop it..what makes you think it will be different for a lion. The smartest choice is to run away...plus, this is off-topic.

QUOTE
Also, we have evloed to HAVE to use tools, chimps have not. They still have ways of getting what they need with out tools...we don't (big difference). That tells me something about you also

*sigh* Humans DO NOT need tools. No animal does. Please read up first before you even come back here. Ignorance is bliss, RedX... no.gif
Its no use to argue with someone with no knowledge...So until you can make valid statements, not just opinion, everyone will ignore you. Knowledge is power.
There have been many cases in which humans with only their minds and will have survived.

QUOTE
LOL, thats funny  . You took a statement that I used to show that other animals can make complex movement paths and plain out events in their minds as a way to attack me. Maybe you should have took it up a lil and asked me just how did this happen (I said I would be happy to tell anyone who wants to know).

No need too, your lack of knowledge explains it all.

QUOTE
Im not ashame of that because I know that everyone would have been tricked by that great display of intellgents.

I would disagree...There are many great minds. Humans may be out-muscled, but not out-smarted.

QUOTE
Oh yeah. The fact that your starting to attack me tells me that you are losing things to say. That makes me happy    LOL.
(Personal attacks are a sign of losing. But any that you may think I have done on you came purely from your attack on me. O.K?

Finally you see that it is taxing to argue with someone with no knowledge on this subject. If you wish to attack me because you fail to admit you are wrong, that is fine. Maybe there are some exceptions to the fact that humans are smarter than animals...no.gif

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#69    RedX

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 11:11 PM

name='frogfish' post='1049673' date='Feb 5 2006, 03:26 PM']
Learn to read...You said "So if I or anyone else said "humans can only think of whatever" would just be a pure egotrip of a statement to say" Humans ARE the only ones than can understand abstract thinking, spatial thinking, and the sciences. Its a waste of my time to argue with you. You lack knowledge neccesary to participate in a intelligent discussion."You contradict yourself So I think your statements are more close-minded."

Why can't you stay on subject huh.gif ? You said I contradicted myself and thats what we were talking about. You never said anything about what I said, just that I contradicted myself...with I showed that I have had the same position on the subject from start to end. I could be as wrong or right as I want but as long as I keep my position on the topic Im not contradicting myself...maybe you should learn to read.
If you thought what I said was wrong then you should have said so and not "You contradict yourself So I think your statements are more close-minded." (I could say the world is flat and keep on saying that tell I die.I would be wrong but I kept my position on the topic so I wouldn't be contradicting myself)
I would go into how theres cases of animals useing their senses as a way to sub for science or how some chimps learned Trig and so on but I proved my point. I kept my same position so Im done with that.



Again, do some research before you even debate. Humans evolved to become the most intelligent animals ever. Tools are just a by-product. They make life easier. Humans CAN live without tools. Of course, some are so spoiled that it would be impossible, but those with the greatest minds and will can.

...what ever you say rolleyes.gif .
With out the use of tools we wouldn't be where we are today. I believe its the other way around, that the tools we made have given us all we have but what ever hmm.gif .

But seeing as that you think we don't need tools to live then I would very much like to see you kill a wild dear with your bear hands grin2.gif . Or even just cook something with out fire...that would prove your point. thumbsup.gif
(Oh yeah, the ones with the greatest minds and wills would learn how to make tools to live
because they would know that they can't get what they need by just useing their bodies...thats happened a long time ago )

Yes yes.gif I live in inner-city Detroit....Its already impossible to move around with all the traffic...I have to walk.

Thats great thumbsup.gif . That means that you can live in a place with out food or water well its snowing and have no why of warming ourself well wild animals are trying to kill you huh.gif.



You seem to know nothing about genetics, Living in poverty doesn't affect your genetics...it affects your psychology. Power of the Situation..
As I said before, read up before you debate.... If you do choose to read up on his topic, you will clearly see my point. Its taxing to argue with someone who doesn't know what they speak of.


LMAO, and you said I should learn how to read laugh.gif . I said that thats all off topic but maybe you didn't read that. I guess it is taxing to try to pick and choose what you want to agrue about and end up chooseing a statement of no use to the agruement.

You can keep talking about that if you want...it just shows me how much you like to jump to things you feel like focusing on (even if they are off topic).


Again, our lives don't depend on tools...no animal does. Evolution doesn't evolve for tools...but it does for intelligence.

YES! Our evolution made use smart at what we where best at which is MAKING TOOLS and finding other uses for them. Just as evolution made the wolf smart in hunting in a pack. A wolf with out a pack is not going to have the same success as it would with one which is the same as humans with tools mellow.gif . Tools do make things easyer but we have come to a point were we can't do certain things with out them...that means we NEED them.


C, I go hunting and fishing up north....if a bull moose is charging, nothing can stop it..what makes you think it will be different for a lion. The smartest choice is to run away...plus, this is off-topic.


Oh, this is off topic. huh.gif . I give you and example of a event were going hand to hand with a wild animal would be use less and that a tool is NEEDED in this event yet you make a statements about something that I said was of no use because it's off topic. (that civil statement). Oh whell.

I would also like to know just were was a bull moose stated in my post( "....if a bull moose is charging, nothing can stop it..what makes you think it will be different for a lion").

But C. was a really good one to choose grin2.gif . Yeah, just leave the hunting gun and sword and run from the animal that wants you dead even though its much faster then you and will kill you. I must be to much of a city boy because I would think that shooting at or around it would scare it off. And if that didn't work then its time for the big cat to go bye-bye by shooting it. If that didn't work then at was I still has a sword and the lions badly hurt...maybe after getting shot it would try to turn around but what ever. dontgetit.gif




*sigh* Humans DO NOT need tools. No animal does. Please read up first before you even come back here. Ignorance is bliss, RedX... no.gif

Yes, ignorance is bliss. Its a great fet to ingore something with so much proof around you.
(Can someone please tell him that we DO need tools. mellow.gif . Maybe he will see it if others got it the convo cause Im getting tired of his I-ARE-SMARTER comments.)


Its no use to argue with someone with no knowledge...So until you can make valid statements, not just opinion, everyone will ignore you. Knowledge is power.
There have been many cases in which humans with only their minds and will have survived.


Thats odd, I thought someone else agreed with me (Kaizen) and that you were agrueing with two or more people... hmm.gif


The sure fact that I have opinions shows that I have knowledge. You are the one that needs some valid statements to back up your OPINION that humans are the only ones that think, learn and use knowledge to live (]"The ability to think, to learn, the ability to use our knowledge to survive.Our lives don't depend on tools...they depend on our minds"

Yeah, there have been many cases of animals dialing 911 but those that mean that they all can? I bet this cases you speak of didn't end in the person having a complete and normal life in the wild well killing wild dear and so on. It was most likely their will to get back to their homes that did it.

No need too, your lack of knowledge explains it all.
I would disagree...There are many great minds. Humans may be out-muscled, but not out-smarted.


Yeah, you keep on thinking that. Maybe you should hear the stroy...the great detail I will put in it would show you the wrongs in your statements.

Finally you see that it is taxing to argue with someone with no knowledge on this subject. If you wish to attack me because you fail to admit you are wrong, that is fine. Maybe there are some exceptions to the fact that humans are smarter than animals...no.gif
[/quote]


No. its taxing when you can't see how someone would ignore the proof all around them. It sems that you are losting things to say now that almost all the statements you said above were 30% flat talk and 70% Im too smart to agrue with you statements. I really do think your religion side is holding back your mind from the things around you (thats off topic so you figure it out for yourself).

Tell me, if I know so lil and you know so much then why do you have to personaly attack me and not just prove your point with facts? The I-ARE-SMARTER then you thing is getting real old (alot of people that think they know a lil something wants to talk that way in unexlainped for some reason). Like I said, personal attacks are a sign of losing it and you have been doing it for some time now cool.gif .

Edited by RedX, 05 February 2006 - 11:23 PM.


#70    frogfish

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 03:33 AM

Pfffffft, your whole arguement is how I can't stay on topic...No use arguing with someone so incompetent and stubborn as you.

Now, lets get back on topic, shall we? Oh yes, I forgot, you don't know anything about the topic. Dinosaurs ARE more primitive, and I have stated many facts, which Kaizen and others have agreed upon.

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#71    Kaizen

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 09:16 AM

Well that's settled...  happy.gif


Quote

Even if ALL dinosaurs DID have 4 chambered hearts, that doesn't mean they are warm-blooded...Crocs have a 4 chambered heart too...


Of course... four chambered hearts just make for a more efficient circulatory system.  But that still makes them a little less primitive and I still don't see how crocs are more advanced.

I'm not sure what evidence you have for supporting the fact that dinosaurs were cold-blooded and had three chambered hearts.  So far it hasn't been proven either way.  Still evidence leans more towards dinosaurs being endothermic (at least to a degree).   Even their skeletal structure alone indicates that they were active creatures much like birds and mammals.

And humans pretty much DO rely on tools and the abillity to make tools for their survival, unless a human society can get by with just picking fruit off the trees and eating insects while not having to worry much about preditors.

I still don't think the abillity to anialate all other forms of life, destroy habitats and ecosystems with ease, and multiplying untill the earth is overpopulated and every resource is used up is something I would be proud of.   hmm.gif

Edited by Kaizen, 06 February 2006 - 09:50 AM.

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#72    frogfish

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 09:45 PM

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Of course... four chambered hearts just make for a more efficient circulatory system. But that still makes them a little less primitive and I still don't see how crocs are more advanced.

Crocs have the more effecient circulatory system, a larger brains, and are much more effecient than any other predator...possible even dinos

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I'm not sure what evidence you have for supporting the fact that dinosaurs were cold-blooded and had three chambered hearts. So far it hasn't been proven either way. Still evidence leans more towards dinosaurs being endothermic (at least to a degree). Even their skeletal structure alone indicates that they were active creatures much like birds and mammals.

As far as I am corncerned, the only 'proof' is a 4 chambered heart and feathers. Many diapsids were cold-blooded, but acted like mammals. Why not dinos. Feathers could be insulation, more proof toward cold-blooded. 4 Chambered hearts are not always warm-blooded (crocs). Hollow bones and such also does not mean they are warm-blooded. Of course, somewhere there is a dino who was warm-blooded that evolved in to birds, but for the majority, I doubt they were warm-blooded. Of course, its just my opinion.

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And humans pretty much DO rely on tools and the abillity to make tools for their survival, unless a human society can get by with just picking fruit off the trees and eating insects while not having to worry much about preditors.

Again, Humans have survived without tools, just on ingenuity....but this is off-topic anyways...

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I still don't think the abillity to anialate all other forms of life, destroy habitats and ecosystems with ease, and multiplying untill the earth is overpopulated and every resource is used up is something I would be proud of.

Same, but I am proud of intelligence...its just sad that we have evolved so inelligent that we can manipulate it.

Edited by frogfish, 06 February 2006 - 09:46 PM.

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#73    RedX

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 04:32 AM

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Pfffffft, your whole arguement is how I can't stay on topic...No use arguing with someone so incompetent and stubborn as you.

Now, lets get back on topic, shall we? Oh yes, I forgot, you don't know anything about the topic. Dinosaurs ARE more primitive, and I have stated many facts, which Kaizen and others have agreed upon.



Need I remind you...

"Yes, dinos are "primative" to us because they came before us...thats what that means"

I said that on my frist post. You made the agrument about jumping to other topics by nowing so. I just replyed. So its over thumbsup.gif  grin2.gif



#74    Pax Unum

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 02:30 PM

Hopson (1980) compared dinosaur brain sizes with those of living reptiles. He calculated the EQs assuming that dinosaurs are more like reptiles and that their brain, as in living reptiles, occupied only half of the brain case. Hopson used the brain size to body size relationship in living reptiles, E=0.005P0.66 and found that most dinosaurs were not as intelligent as the average crocodile. I recalculated the dinosaur EQs assuming that the brain occupied the entire brain case and found that only the sauropods Brachiosaurus and Diplodocus were less intelligent than the average crocodile.

I also compared the dinosaur EQs with those of birds. I assumed that dinosaurs were more similar to birds and that their brain would, like living birds, occupy the entire brain case. I used recent dinosaur body size estimates and the bird brain size to body size relationship, E=0.12P0.55 (Nealen and Ricklefs, 2001) to calculate the EQ. Using these assumptions, I found that the EQs of theropods such as Allosaurus, Tyrannosaurus and the coelurosaur Troodon were within the range of most ground birds such as the ostrich and the emu. Ornithopods were within and just below the ground bird intelligence range. Ankylosaurs, stegosaurs and ceratopsians all fall below the ground bird range and the sauropods remain the least intelligent.

Because it is now accepted that birds are the closest relatives to dinosaurs, it is reasonable to believe that dinosaur intelligence should be modeled on that of birds rather than reptiles. Theropods, which are believed to be the closest dinosaur group to birds, and some ornithopods, have at least the same intelligence as an ostrich. Dinosaurs were not nearly as intellectually challenged as once thought.

Were Dinosaurs Bird Brains?



#75    Pax Unum

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 02:51 PM

Indisputable evidence does not exist for warm-bloodedness in all types of dinosaurs. However, it is highly unlikely that all dinosaurs were cold-blooded, either.

Morphological and postural evidence, bone histology, ecological information, and brain/body size relationships indicate that we cannot make sweeping generalizations about dinosaurian metabolism. Most likely it varied between groups.

Dinosaurs spanned the spectrum from inertial homeotherms to active, endothermic birds.

Brain/Body allometry in Dinosaurs





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