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Spanking Children- Is it a Viable Punishment?


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#1    Lottie

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 10:15 PM

Debate Suggestion by ParanoidAndroid

Should we be allowed to spank our children - is it a viable punishment?

Looking for one participant who is against spanking.

Edited by Lottie, 05 April 2006 - 09:37 PM.


#2    Carajbu

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Posted 19 February 2006 - 01:33 AM

Hmmm...I'll be for spanking.

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#3    AztecInca

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Posted 19 February 2006 - 01:47 AM

Sounds like we have a debate on our hands!

Firefemme1202 will be debating against  spanking as a viable form of punishment while Qarrah will be debating that spanking is a viable form of punsihment for children.


This will be a 1v1 formal debate.
An Introduction, 5 bodily posts and a conclusion from each participant. No Flaming, bad manners or profantities will be tolerated. Please make sure you quote ALL your sources!

Please be aware that:

There is a point deduction for debaters who fail to make a post within the 7 day time frame. The deductions will be 2 points for every day the participant fails to post after the 7 days.

This is to ensure that debates continue in a timely fashion. If for any reason you cannot post within the 7 days, please ensure that you let myself , Tiddlyjen or Lottie know to avoid having the points taken off your debate.

If, however the participant does not then attempt to make a post for up to 2 weeks after the 7 day rule has started an immediate disqualification will occur.

Good luck Aztec.

Edited by Lottie, 05 April 2006 - 09:37 PM.


#4    Carajbu

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Posted 19 February 2006 - 05:39 AM

Introduction:
Spanking is a form of punishment used by almost every parent at sometime in their time of raising their child. Spanking usually is done with a belt or the parent uses their hand.

I believe that spanking becomes a problem when it is used incorrectly (the parent is spanking their child to vent anger at what the child did or something else that happened, the parent uses spanking to feel powerful, the parent uses spanking when they are drunk or extremely angry)

If the child becomes scared of the parent or gets badly hurt from spanking the parent should not spank their child and definetly find another way to get their point across positively. It is a problem in the U.S. because spanking is mostly used incorrectly. I agree there are better and more efficient ways to punish a child, but if spanking works for the parent and the child understands what they did wrong, then it is fine. It all depends on the situation and how calm and mature the adult is when they want to punish their child. There shouldn't be guilt after a parent spanks their child. I think spanking should only be reserved for a serious punishment.

You can go here to see what other people think about spanking.


(BTW this is the first time I've done or started a debate so just tell me if I did something wrong.)


"I want freedom for the full expression of my personality." -Mahatma Gandhi


#5    Carajbu

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Posted 12 March 2006 - 10:14 PM

Whoo this is definetly a hard thing to argue, because I agree with you. But I'm debating so I'll do it.

I'm sure your kids benefited from your choice of punishment. The debate isn't what is a viable punishment, the debate is if spanking is a viable punishment. Spanking is a viable punishment when it doesn't veer on abuse. Spanking itself isn't child abuse and when done mildly and controlled it's just an easier way to get your point across to a toddler who won't understand you very much if you just tell them, "No, you do not do that!" They will do it again because they see the punishment as you just yelling at them and that isn't that bad is it?
Some toddlers are naturally...very bad as in they won't listen to you and they break things and  are out of control.
Let's reinforce a mild spanking to the child and tell them firmly if they do it again they will get a spanking. We can't always be nice to our children. You need to be the adult in the situation and you need to show that you're the one in control, not the child. Let's say you yell at the child. The child yells back and as both of you can do that does that show you're in control?
How about putting them in time out? Some children will just get back up from the time out and follow you or whatever. What I'm getting across is the fact that spanking reinforces your control as parent and for the out of control child is a viable punishment.
Now, continuing to spank your child after the age of seven isn't viable because they aren't at the same stage in their life. This is the time where you will take something important away from them as punishment.
I am a teenager and that is how my parents did it. Spanking as punishment when we were toddlers then grounding as we became adolescents. This is the best way to do it because I didn't want to be spanked like a little kid when I was 11, I felt I was beyond that.
Once again it all depends on the maturity of the adult and how they use spanking as their choice of punishment.

Edited by Qarrah, 12 March 2006 - 10:18 PM.

"I want freedom for the full expression of my personality." -Mahatma Gandhi


#6    AztecInca

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 01:14 AM

I am afraid I must disqualify jazzrequest from this debate and open her position to any other UM members who wish to participate.

The position will be that you are against spanking as a viable form of punishment.

Edited by AztecInca, 31 March 2006 - 01:15 AM.


#7    Lottie

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:24 AM

Still looking for one person to oppose Quarrah.

The position will be that you are against spanking as a viable form of punishment.

If you wish to join this debate you will have to make an introduction and 1st post to catch up. However we will grant you extra time to do this thumbsup.gif .


#8    firefemme1202

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 09:00 PM

I will be happy to debate against spanking.

Introduction

Spanking has become a common occurence in today's households as a form of punishment.  Discipline, however, should be a form of learning, not a way to scare the child.  Children must respect the parent, not fear the parent and although many parents will not physically hurt the child, this does not mean that a mark wasn't left.  

The repercussions of spanking far outweigh the good that comes from it.  A parent must always realize the reason behind the discipline and devise a "punishment that fits the crime."  Spanking causes the child to relate phsycial hitting with a way to get what you want, and as a parent, this is not something we want the child to assume.  The child may fear the spankings and as a result, not do the bad thing for a while, but this doesn't teach the child WHY they were spanked.  Children correlate more with the fact that they got spanked rather than the reason they were punished.  If they are to learn effectively what is right from wrong, we can't send them mixed signals that violence and hitting is wrong, but parents can spank their kids.  Kids can also misunderstand the spanking and take their aggression out in this way on other kids when they are feeling upset or angry.  

A parent wants their child to communicate with them, not shut themselves off from the parents.  In order to achieve this, a child must trust the parents and the way they are being treated.  Trust is harder to reach when the child is afraid of being spanked.

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#9    firefemme1202

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 09:14 PM

1st Body Post

Columbine anyone?  Children take out their aggression where and when they can because they don't learn how to focus their anger or upset feelings elsewhere.  When a parent spanks (hits) a child, it teaches them that hitting is acceptable.  The message all over America in today's society is "violence is not the answer."  How can we say these words and then physically punish our kids?  The actions will always speak louder than words.  

If the child hit someone or an animal in any way (biting, kicking, scratching, hitting) and is then spanked for doing so, the message they take from that is that hitting is acceptable.  In order for children to understand that hitting in any form or fashion is unacceptable 100% of the time, they must not be spanked by their parents.  Children who are not spanked will understand that hitting is wrong and that keeping their hands and feet to themselves is right.  This will prevent them from physically taking out aggression now, and hopefully, prevent it in the future.

(Reference website:  http://www.parenting.com/parenting/article...47543_3,00.html?  )

To suppose that earth is the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to believe that in an entire field sown with millet, only one grain will grow.  --Metrodorus of Chios, 4th century BCE

We adore chaos because we love to produce order.

#10    Lottie

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 09:50 PM

Firefemme, Thankyou for your participation thumbsup.gif .


#11    Carajbu

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 02:54 AM

The repercussions of spanking far outweigh the good that comes from it.

So there are some positives?

The message all over America in today's society is "violence is not the answer."

I thought that was more the eastern's philosphy; because last time I checked kids don't always listen. In school they tell us not to do drugs, yet we still do drugs. We get really tired of hearing that. Because we all know they did drugs when they were teenagers. Anyway, that was just an example of kids not always listening. I'm also pretty sure teachers used to hit their students and they didn't have problems with a noisy classroom.
Now I'll reinforce what I already stated: toddlers don't always have the capacity to actually listen to what you are saying and store it in their brains. Have you ever seen Super Nanny?
Boy those kids are out of control. The parents will repeatedly yell at the kids but that doesn't work. Strict punishment does. I agree it's a good thing to talk to your kids, but at the time..they just don't want to hear it.

About Columbine...I'm not sure the teenagers shot their students because their parents spanked them. Wasn't it bullying?
Even if they were spanked I don't think they would have gone to those extremes because of it. You're probably thinking of child abuse which is totally different than spanking.
I don't think I need to point out the differences.

Why do parents refer to spanking? Because it's easier.
I know plenty of people that have been spanked and aren't agressive or tempermental. Spanking can inffluence that in some kids, but not all of them. If the child is shown correct punishment and love they will probably understand that their parents aren't always the big bully.

Edited by Qarrah, 06 April 2006 - 02:58 AM.

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#12    firefemme1202

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 07:47 PM

Quote


The repercussions of spanking far outweigh the good that comes from it.

So there are some positives?

Of course there are positives...from a parent's point of view.  The child won't do whatever it was that got them in trouble.  Why?  Not because they learned anything, but because they were spanked for doing something that they were probably not aware was wrong.  Children need to be repeated to constantly to learn the difference between right and wrong.  Has anyone met a child who learned how to use the potty after being shown once?  No.  This is because in order for the child to learn, the lesson must be repeated constantly, and that is what childhood is.  Growing up and learning what is good and what is bad.  Children do not think like adults.  They cannot be treated like adults.  A child should not be hit as a lesson.  Childhood is about learning, not consequences.  Granted, some children know what they are doing is bad, but a spanking can simply make them want to rebel more.  

Quote

The message all over America in today's society is "violence is not the answer."

I thought that was more the eastern's philosphy; because last time I checked kids don't always listen. In school they tell us not to do drugs, yet we still do drugs. We get really tired of hearing that. Because we all know they did drugs when they were teenagers. Anyway, that was just an example of kids not always listening.

So if people are tired of hearing "drugs are bad," then it would be "easier" for everyone (teenagers and adults) to get a spanking so we will learn?  

Adults involved in children's lives constantly communicate that violence does not solve the problem.  Eastern philosophy or worldly, it is communicated to our children today in most countries.  Regardless if children get tired of hearing it, the message that drugs is bad is constantly surrounding us.  Here in America, commercials and billboards and whole TV shows are dedicated to keep people away from drugs, drinking and smoking.  It's constantly repeated because the police can't just go out and give everyone doing bad things a spanking.  Repetition is the key to learning, but as adults, it's harder to take the opinions and lessons of others.  If these attempts don't work, by what you're saying, we all need a big spanking.  But adults don't get spanked even though a large number of them do "bad" things.  As children, all they take in are the lessons the parents teach them.  If spanking is the punishment, then the child associates that hitting is ok.  They are not going to understand why they get spanked sometimes and not other times.  It confuses children and this can cause a breakdown in what the parent was trying to teach in the first place.  Spanking or hitting is never, has never, and will never be a good consequence, whether it is in the adult world or a child's world.

Quote


I'm also pretty sure teachers used to hit their students and they didn't have problems with a noisy classroom.

Children afraid of being hit do not understand the importance of a quiet classroom.  A quiet classroom does not teach them that is wrong to be disruptive.  However, being humiliated in front of the entire class while having to where a Dunce hat and sitting in a corner would probably be a better form of punishment if the child is to LEARN that being disruptive is not good or right.

Quote


Now I'll reinforce what I already stated: toddlers don't always have the capacity to actually listen to what you are saying and store it in their brains. Have you ever seen Super Nanny?
Boy those kids are out of control. The parents will repeatedly yell at the kids but that doesn't work. Strict punishment does. I agree it's a good thing to talk to your kids, but at the time..they just don't want to hear it.

Not one person ever said or agreed that yelling is a viable way for a child to learn.  It's just as bad as spanking.  It upsets the child even more and they close up.  A child doesn't always take in what someone is saying because every minute of every day as a child they are learning something new.  Questions and curiosities and confusions that as adults, we had to learn as children.  Why is the stove hot?  Why is the fridge cold?  How is a baby born?  Why did I cut myself when I fell off my bike?  Why do I need a bath everyday?  Every moment a child is learning something new and it's not easy when you're that age.  By the age of 6, most children know how to read and write, if not tentatively.  But it's a process that starts as early as 2 or 3 with children.  They can't learn how to read and write in a day, week or even a month.  It takes time.  So do the lessons that the parents need to teach their children.  They will not learn how to properly use the potty and wipe and put on their panties or undies right away, and they should not be expected to learn other lessons just because they are bad right away.  This is an extremely large world with a great deal to learn about it.  Spanking a child is not the way to go about teaching them.  You wouldn't spank your child if they didn't know how to spell or read a word.  So why spank them at all.  Every child has their own way of learning, but spanking is not the answer.  Every parent must take the time to learn what boundary their child has to learning right from wrong.  If a child repeatedly does something after being told not to, then they aren't being taught in a way they will understand.

Quote


About Columbine...I'm not sure the teenagers shot their students because their parents spanked them. Wasn't it bullying?
Even if they were spanked I don't think they would have gone to those extremes because of it. You're probably thinking of child abuse which is totally different than spanking.
I don't think I need to point out the differences.

Not all children are the same.  I personally have a very sensitive niece who is such a lap baby and will tell you she loves you 20 times a day.  She will constantly hold your hand and pet your arm and smile at you.  But she is 3 and does bad things sometimes.  She throws fits when she is tired and whines when she wants something.  This doesn't mean she needs a spanking.  It simply means that she needs to take a nap and when she wakes up, we can discuss what she did wrong.  Before we understood that even though she's only been awake for 3 hours, she's tired and needs a nap, and she used to get spanked.  She never learned anything and now that we have the new technique, we have had much less problems with her behavior.  This goes back to the simple fact that all children are different and no technique will work equally as well with all children.  It is a parent's responsibility to learn why their child is doing something bad instead of merely punishing them for it.  Understand the child and the child will understand you, hence making spanking irrelevant.

QUOTE(Qarrah @ Apr 5 2006, 09:54 PM) View Post

Why do parents refer to spanking? Because it's easier.
I know plenty of people that have been spanked and aren't agressive or tempermental. Spanking can inffluence that in some kids, but not all of them. If the child is shown correct punishment and love they will probably understand that their parents aren't always the big bully.

Easy, we have learned in life, is not always right.  It's easy to get the $7 an hour job because we know we will get a paycheck every week.  But business owners take that chance of losing everything to make a much more financially stable life for themeselves.  Why take risks?  Because risks will get you further in life than if you don't.  Parents need to risk their time in order to have a better outcome in their child's behavior.  No parent has time to work, come home, cook dinner, get the child bathed and ready for bed, then take care of their own needs, get some sleep and start it all over again every day.  But what parents need to realize when that child is born is that it's not just about taking the easy way out.  Spanking is the easy way out of spending the time that is needed to properly teach the child.  Time is a precious commodity when you're a child, and the parent of a child.  The child may not like time out or may talk endlessly when they see you and ask you 50 times to "watch this."  There will be times that the child is unhappy because they want to spend it with their parents.  There are reasons behind every action, good or bad.  Parents must hold up to the responsibility they signed on for when they became parents and not seek the easy way out just so dinner can get cooked, or because they got called into work, or because the parent is just tired and wants a break.  

As adults, we take numerous years of college to learn how to be a doctor or lawyer.  We do this because these subjects are so vast in information that we must take the time to learn about it.  We can't just take a 6 week course and off we go because people's lives are at stake, whether behind bars or in a coffin.  Why do we expect toddlers and children to learn how life works, what's wrong and right, what's true and false, what's real and pretend after being taught something a few times?  Parents can't expect a child to learn about life because they were spanked.  Spanking will only confuse them even more.  The child needs time and repetition, not violence (regardless if the child is hurt or not, spanking is hitting.)  Spanking is a trade-off for time.  Parents punish their children even worse when they spank them not because they are being hit, but because they don't understand why.  Parents MUST take the time to teach them what is bad and good, just like potty training, just like reading and writing, just like every other aspect of life.  Spanking is a trade-off to do some real parenting and it does not work as effectively as taking time does.

http://drphil.com/articles/article/256/

Edited by firefemme1202, 07 April 2006 - 03:17 PM.

To suppose that earth is the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to believe that in an entire field sown with millet, only one grain will grow.  --Metrodorus of Chios, 4th century BCE

We adore chaos because we love to produce order.

#13    Lottie

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 11:33 AM

Quarrah, your reply thanks.  original.gif


#14    AztecInca

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Posted 16 April 2006 - 07:12 AM

Qarrah, you have well and trully gone over the 7-day posting time limit. If you do not PM either Tiddlyjen or I within the next 4 days or post I will be forced to disqualify you.

Edited by AztecInca, 16 April 2006 - 07:12 AM.


#15    Carajbu

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 11:27 PM

Maybe you need to read my early posts.

Children aren't as mature as adults. Ok. Children don't always take to heart what you tell them. Ok. Some children can easily learn if you tell them what they did is bad and why, some children don't.
Ok?

I think we can agree on that...? Anyway, as you said, not every child is the same. There are very disruptive children that just don't learn when you try and explain something to them. Spanking, in this situation, is a viable punishment. That doesn't mean after the child calms down you can't tell explain to them then what they did wrong. Then, if the child begans to learn, you don't need to spank your child again. It should be reserved only if the child gets really out of control and won't listen.

"I want freedom for the full expression of my personality." -Mahatma Gandhi





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