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Fetal & Embryonic Stem Cell Research


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#16    JohnnyBoyC

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 10:06 PM

Yelikiah, you fail to mention a resolution to stem cell rejection, this is by far the largest danger, and, sadly, there aren't that many identical twins compared to the near 7 billion people in this world.

The video you posted was amazing, perhaps a miracle. But you fail to realize it is a rat. A rat. That is all it is. Show me a video of a crippled human crawling across a room, then a human injected with stem cells running a marathon, and that would be something.

I think we have to point out that all stem cell research is just expiremental. It may fail, and even more dangers could be discovered.

Also in counterance of YOUR countering of my partners post, you again fail to realize that even though he only used stem cell research 3 times,
Approx 40% of your post is making fun of or pointing out any bit of un-relevent content.

But now to add to the debate:

Religious Opinions on Embryonic Stem Cell Research

87% of the world believes in a religion, so I believe it is important to listen to there input on stem cell research from a religous and humanitarian point of view.

Sondra Wheeler, Professor of Christian Ethics at Wesley Theological Seminary says:

Quote


Well, that's going to depend on how you regard embryonic life. We don't trade one human life to save another. You don't kill one patient in order to transplant an organ into another even to save lives, and you wouldn't do it even if you could save two lives that way. So it depends partly on what you think you are dealing with.

Great words. From a Christian point of view, Stem cell research isn't promoted, that is 33% of the world.

A lot of religons also are against stem cell research as well.

In conclusion, the majority of religons in the world are un-supportive of stem cell research.

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#17    frogfish

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 01:28 AM

Post #2 - Stem Cell lines

Quote

Yelikiah, you fail to mention a resolution to stem cell rejection, this is by far the largest danger, and, sadly, there aren't that many identical twins compared to the near 7 billion people in this world.

Actually, I have mentioned a surefire resolution to rejection...It is called therapeutic cloning. It is never rejected.
Link 1

Stem Cell lines are ways of creating vast amounts of stem cells with the same DNA as the recipent. Using therapeutic cloning, stem cell lines allow for the creation of stem cells readily.

"A stem cell line is a continuously dividing population of cells obtained from human or animal tissues," [see link 1]

Stem cells lines are created by fusing and egg without a nucleus with a nucleus from the donor. Researchers then use the cells from the blastula as stem cells. This ensures that the stem cells will have the same DNA, and won't be rejected. [see link 1]

To add on to what Yelekiah said, Stem cells therapies can cure neurological disorders. The main cause for neurological disorders are death of neurons, dopamine-producing cells, and glial cells. All these cells, unlike anyother cell in the body, DO NOT REGENERATE. With Stem Cells, we can grow neurons, and use them on patients to cure diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Multiple Sclerosis, ALS, Huntington's Chorea, and many more disorders.

Quote

Unlike most other cells, neurons cannot regrow after damage (except neurons from the hippocampus).


Link 2
Link 3

Quote

Stem cells have potential in many different areas of health and medical research. To start with, studying stem cells will help us to understand how they transform into the dazzling array of specialized cells that make us what we are. Some of the most serious medical conditions, such as cancer and birth defects, are due to problems that occur somewhere in this process. A better understanding of normal cell development will allow us to understand and perhaps correct the errors that cause these medical conditions.

Another potential application of stem cells is making cells and tissues for medical therapies. Today, donated organs and tissues are often used to replace those that are diseased or destroyed. Unfortunately, the number of people needing a transplant far exceeds the number of organs available for transplantation. Pluripotent stem cells offer the possibility of a renewable source of replacement cells and tissues to treat a myriad of diseases, conditions, and disabilities including Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases, spinal cord injury, stroke, burns, heart disease, diabetes, osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis.

Link 4

Stem Cells are the only viable options to treat many diseases, and techniques like Therapeutic Clonig and Stem Cell Lines are ways to provide many stem cells, and will never be rejected.

Edited by Lottie, 04 April 2006 - 11:03 PM.

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#18    Abecrombie

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 08:43 PM

Post 2b
–EMOTION TIES ,PROOF OF BLACK MARKET ,..AND FACTORY FARMS THAT TIE INTO THE TOPIC OF EMBRYONIC STEM RESEARCH . FINDINGS BEHIND A POSSIBLE LIE THAT WOULD TAKE DOWN THE HUMAN RACE

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It all goes back to the one thing that all souls are alive and beating in every heart of every living creature.
The soul is in the blood of every flesh creature and life was given to man from god’s mouth to his nostrils the spirit of awesome life force to make man and became a living soul.
So blood in this world age is a form and symbol of life sacrifice folklore and vampires sources of mythical …….

*
“For the soul of the flesh is in the blood,and I myself have put it upon the altar for you to make atonement for your souls, because it is atonement by the soul in it { Lev17:11 } For like reason, the connection is even more direct,

“ The soul of every sort  of flesh is its blood “ {Lev :17:14 }
“all the souls –to me they belong” {Eze 18:4}
God commands not
to eat blood {Gen 9:1-4}

Quote

when a soul is no more living the blood distinctively becomes a contaminated source of disease such as bubonic plague and malaria as well as many others that the bio germ warfare industry came up with certain genus occupations to support the increase of this diseases caused by blood when it is a dead thing and alive it has so much more possibilities to power controlled military research or money making research


In irratticated geneticaly alterted food and unsanitary enviroments to keep up with with market industries around the world in the film at the below website is the best animated true life behind the meatrix spoofed from the matrix of course,..the film is about two minutes very entertaining and informative. In it there is the meatrix 2 revolting is what the tilte of it and is accessable as well easy to find ..in that second eposode it tells a bloody tale most people would only see in a horror film .absolutely mindblowing information about blood and what it is fed to …
http://www.themeatrix.com/inside/

Through faith in the blood of jesus christ , christians and believers alike can have there consciences cleansed by asking for forgivness and true repenting and at passover with the disciples he used his blood as a symbol to keep us from beeing thirsty in spiritual food because everlasting life is what is promised by him and through later his aposiles to complete the works of god throudh completeing the scriptures and the bible as a whole with both old and new testiments therefore publishing it in every language for all to have for themeselves to be a part of this kingdom and paradised promised by god through the sacrafice given and represented by the blood of his only begotten son..

Seems far fetched by most but studying to know holy scripture and the bible is a lifelong journey of validatying rewards for belivers in god. Love , hope and evidence is the faith are the thing unseen. Even today scientist have unknown answers of the exact chemical make up of the blood and how it works,…it comes from a life source ,..without it we cannot be alive physically . god says this is his atonement with mankind .
Who can one man trust when man cannot be a trusted species haven’t the history books told enough evidence of what monsters are out there in a position to where the less unfortunate have no chance to not become victim to its source.
Embryonic stem cell research is and always will take life and not support it.

A surgeon in Southern California removed the beating heart from a baboon and transplanted it into a baby known as "Baby Fae".For reason which are obvious from what we have just seen, the heart was rejected and the baby died.However we are now seeing similar experiments in reverse: organs removed from late human foetuses that have just been aborted, and inserted into animals.
Emotionaly we are all linked to this orgin and raises many flags with  populations and cultures. Indivduals have profoundly took these issues all barrels loaded. Waiting and ready to battle out the differences in the intense search for structuring a clone or tampering with our very exhistance could pose or threat. .trust would be without a doubt  the ruling tonic to ease the indigestion of even a naushous adrenaline, sweating of hands , palm off what is sacred and in its mystery . itself.  life

Bodily post 2a was merely some personal comments reguardinding the emotional ties one would have . Either side of the issue. It still causes alert, excitement, hope, alternative motives and suspicions and ultimately emotion. This is the fragile genetic chemical combination of what makes us a human being. Whether evolution, creationism, or scientific theory. It is us from where we began and the conception of life takes place at fertilization. That is a human being we fanatics call abortion rights for the unborn embryo that has no choice to become a wanted child here on earth .but it is also new knowledge ,not far back we ever knew when fertilization occurred and how. Today it is still an unknown process at conception. The woman’s body is still to be unsolved with many mysteries to it and the brain itself scientists say have more cells in the trillions far beyond what is presently counted as stars. Stars are indefinite accordinding to science but the trillions of nerve sells in the human brain go part by a massive comparison.


Human being is still solving the complex strands of where they come, who they are, and what there here for. Chemically and medically, even in chemistry and astromey, bio scientists and medical researchers are finding different means than previously discovered, thus always learning about the complexity of life itself.
I would say this would cause any body with common reason to realize the delicate balanced gift of life is precious and is inherently, our own in each individual living thing, independent of its race or species. We all have a mystery and living it not knowing what if anything after will become of our experience here on planet earth. , whatever invisible god one might believe in, its all the same. However, scientists and biochemists and federal agents in gaharge if industry markets and laboratories are just humans we never met. They are strangers, as we know strangers to be. If you look at the history of humankind, …and learn from it with a discerning heart, one realizes we are the most destructive forces on the planet. With a brain that is beyond comprehension when compared to the heavens above and the number of star that cannot be counted. What limits the destructive nature of a man and by what good would it be placing the genetic make up of a chemical structure DNA do any good if a stranger was in complete say so, over it. Being able to do with it what they want, …and not just one but thousands of thousands even millions perhaps on this godlike team of strange humans, …life would be in great jeopardy. Man loves to play god for all the wrong reasons in the end of it. We are mankind we should be in learning mode and finish some of these other tasks we know we could like cancer cures vaccinations safer water environmental heath Eco systems in balance cleaner air and last but not least peace between the many hate crimes, wars of religion and misunderstanding or threats that powers will take over. By genocide such like the past we learn quickly when life is threatened and conditioning has a lot to be said as well as social behavior when in groups. These are obvious reasons that it could be the end of the human as we know it.just due to one or more perhaps choice to take matters in there own hands and money is always the vain that pumps the powerful and polital source of its purpose. I will mention such cancer and irraticated food as well as agent orange are all caused by mankind and some have this knowledge but will not allow it to be publicaly advertised due to market and profit secrecy to wealth the ones in whom usually get the taste for destroying what a once beautiful and inhabitable planet contain food fresh water and much vegetation to provide a clean and health atmosphere, to be gone, Imtimidation I suppose. God is sometimes the blame for all of the upsets in life and questions of why is there babies dyeing etc, Well at least he gave us a unconditional free will in love to make a choice to research him through holy texts. The textragramminton holds within even His name, which is called by definition,” He that causes to become”

mankind is destructive by its primitive will to choose and death is what we have the power of in our tongue lies that power of life or death and thought to action is what determines choices made by our hand and war has been it for the last 2 thousand years or so and every man woman child are all human beings …scientists are human beings too some are good and some are well a stranger to us. Would you leave your child with a sitter in whom you did not know or never have met? Trusting them because whatever they say sounds convenient or would you place the value of the ingredient of a life in DNA complex cells after conception occurs in the hands of a stranger. NO you would not science tries to determine what is what and biologically it is a chemical composite or mathematically figured out. A life is much more than a math equation to another stranger who is human and in a powerful position. Leaving the future to mankind perhaps vurnable and extinct slaved or tortured to become a breeding ground to make a hybrid race or continue a unhealthy form of food and water consumption by keeping the big cover up of what they take no responsibility for or accountability for responsibility for and I have the facts on those which industries have consciences done by irraticating our food and water supply for greed and wealth. Selfish means for a selfish goal to a selfish end. Too many what ifs considering the history of man. Science in modern days has also expanded, even into a religion for some. Thousands of scientists as well as researcher’s not having to do with medical field are experimenting with bio thermal nuclear war germs and biochemical such as man made anthrax, etc, so consider cancer, Lung heart disease, Liver disease, Obesity diabetes and add a little poising from these humans from somewhere in a political or powerful position knew what they were doing knowing what it would do and doing it without our knowledge, too many coverup and lies already. There is not much a person can convince me with into trust, especially if of that stranger could do with embryonic fetal stem cell research.untrustworthy possibilities.
*
http://www.organicco...rs.org/ge/sprea Agent Orange Victims Gather to Seek Justice from Monsanto, Dow, & U.S. Governmentding072505.cfm victims of the Agent Orange defoliant used by the U.S. military. Deformed children born to parents Vietnam believes were affected by the estimated 20 million gallons of herbicides, including Agent Orange, poured on the country were brought to the conference as dramatic evidence of its effects.
"The use of Agent Orange in Vietnam produced unacceptable threats to life, violated international law and created a toxic wasteland that continued to kill and injure civilian populations long after the war was over,"
said Joan Duffy from Pennsylvania.
*Action Alert--Tell President Lula of Brazil to Ban GE Crops


environmental groups are outraged because the Biosafety Bill included
legislation on Stem-Cell research for a range of diseases

It is obviously
ridiculous that the two issues were part of the same Bill, but ingenious
work by Monsanto.

During his campaign, he pledged to keep Brazil GM-Free,
and was fiercely critical of the effects of GM crops on farmers. Now, it
appears that the influence of US foreign policy and Monsanto corporation
have changed his mind.
http://www.organicco...brazil31005.cfmThe researchers, from Stem Cell Sciences in Australia and Biotransplant in
America, both big players in the biotechnology industry, took a cell from a
human foetus, extracted the nucleus and then inserted it into a pig's egg
cell. Two embryos were grown to the 32-cell stage, which took a week.
Experts in medical ethics are deeply concerned about the patent
application, which has a strong chance of being granted. They say the
research exploits loopholes in European law. It is not illegal because the
embryo is not technically human.
http://www.sunday-ti...gnaus01001.html

http://www.themeatrix.com/inside/
A MUST SEE TO PROVE  FARM FACTORY AND THE FOOD WE EAT .IMPORTANT!!

Liver Cancer: Danger of Radiolytic Products in the Diet
Jeffrey Reinhardt, M.Sc., co-founder of The National Coalition to Stop Food Irradiation.
Summary
 FDA estimates the amount of Radiolytic Products (RP) in foods irradiated at 100 Krad at 0.3 parts per million (PPM). Source.
Calculation of number of molecules of RPs produced by 7.5 ounces of irradiated food.
Analysis of the Impact of Radiolytic Products (RPs) at 0.3 PPM
Mathematical Calculations
A. Seven and one-half (7.5) ounces of irradiated "foods" equals 42.5 grams of "food" substance:
B. RPs at 0.3 PPM in 7.5 ounces of "food" substance yield 0.01275 mg. of RPs per 7.5 ounce meal.
C. Assuming an average Molecular Weight (MW) of one RP molecule equals 300 Daltons, permits the calculation of the total number of RP molecules ingested in a 7.5 ounce meal of irradiated "food":
D) To convert to the number of RP molecules, the Mole fraction is multiplied by Avogadro's Number (6.023 x 1023 molecules per Mole):
E) Since there are approximately one million liver cells ("hepatocytes") in the adult human liver, there will be 25,600,000,000 RP molecules potentially targeted at each liver cell.
F) If, however, only 1 out of 1,000 RP molecules is actually assimilated from the small intestine into the hepatic portal circulation (ed: blood flow through the liver), then for every 7.5 ounce meal with 0.3 PPM of RPs, 25,600,000 of these reactive RPs will enter the liver: [viii] <#8> "Link Eyed Between Beef And Cancer." CBS News, May 20,
2003.
http://www.cbsnews.c...ain554857.shtmlG) Further, if only 1 out of 10,000 RP molecules is a potential carcinogen, co-carcinogen, or mutagen, then for every 7.5 ounce meal with 0.3 PPM of RPs, 2,560 potentially carcinogenic or mutagenic RP molecules will contact each cell in the adult liver:
H) If, over protracted periods of time, the liver is depleted of protective, anti-oxidant nutrients which are destroyed by irradiation, then the inherent capability of the liver's protective and regenerative mechanisms will be compromised. This reduction in the quality and quantity of functional nutrients available is caused by the consumption of diets containing irradiated "foods" over long periods. This depletion in the intake of functional anti-oxidant nutrients, in conjunction with genetic, lifestyle, and occupational factors, will lead to a tissue environment in the liver which will evolve to unique susceptibility to RP-induced initiator and/or promoter carcinogenesis mechanisms.




So the PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING  emotions are evident to this topic and it doesn’t matter which side your on with the issue here,.they both have a emotional response to reasons of promoting this research or try to make it out of reach to the vast industry of government bio labs and pharmaceuticals ,,some call science research but it only  is used by medical science by a small population the rest is anybody in the global market in for profiting in black market laundering and biochemistry as well as for real means to make it into the top power of the economical market ,by ways of making government laws and secretcies not our own , choices not our own ,… in god we trust is on the currency of the USA and even that is bound to change but might I add as time goes by and technology continues to excels poverty still remains and exhists charities areseperate from the common wealth and the middle class has nearly staying exhisting struggling everyday death and victimizing ,..Desperate hungry plagues stricken nations are infected with HIV the world population is at its most exceedingly highest mass numbers of people and children are so unplanned and born as if they were a piece of property one can disregard or take no responsibility for.

Thousands are on this side of willingness to fight for this control over the human DNA.why wouldn’t they if they’ve done it with our food and livestock and contaminating calves with blood meal of dead cows, mad cow disease bird flu and sars and anthrax cancer diabetes lung disease and obesity all caused by man. Why would anyone with such knowledge of this trust what any person would have to say about what this embryonic fetal stem cell research would do good when the descent scientists want to remain apart from the wickedness of destroying the good name of the real meaning of what a scientists job is for and fighting these forces with combated strategies in which scientist debates scientist in truth about what has been done with this knowledge and what needs to be said the the populations that are victim to its lye . There are good scientists out there trying to bring us truth in the matter and if it wasn’t for this debate I wouldn’t have known as much as I do now and I am very thankful for the opportunity in learning from this debate team topic thanks to everyone for such a enriching learning eye opening experience
Hey johnnyboyc what is shaking I urge you to look under my resource in which both bodily posts 1b and 2b are constructed after the fact.


BIG QUESTION IS REALLY ???? Does enbyonic fetal stem cell research  TAKE LIFE  I would stem to think so.


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#19    frogfish

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 09:52 PM

Team 1 - Conclusion

It has been evident that Fetal and Embryonic Stemm Cell Research is a vital step in the advancement of medicine and treatments. 80 Nobel Laureates urge the funding of Pluripotent Stem Cell research.
Link 1

Quote

We the undersigned urge you to support Federal funding for research using human pluripotent stem cells. We join with other research institutions and patient groups in our belief that the current National Institutes of Health (NIH) guidelines, which enable scientists to conduct stem cell research within the rigorous constraints of federal oversight and standards, should be permitted to remain in effect. The discovery of human pluripotent stem cells is a significant milestone in medical research. Federal support for the enormous creativity of the US biomedical community is essential to translate this discovery into novel therapies for a range of serious and currently intractable diseases.

The therapeutic potential of pluripotent stem-cells is remarkably broad. The cells have the unique potential to differentiate into any human cell type. Insulin-producing cells could be used to treat - or perhaps even cure - patients with diabetes, cardiomyocytes could be used to replace damaged heart tissue, chondrocytes could be used for arthritis, and neurons for Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, ALS and spinal cord injuries to name a few examples. There is also the possibility that these cells could be used to create more complex, vital organs, such as kidneys, livers, or even entire hearts.

Some have suggested that adult stem cells may be sufficient to pursue all treatments for human disease. It is premature to conclude that adult stem cells have the same potential as embryonic stem cells -- and that potential will almost certainly vary from disease to disease. Current evidence suggests that adult stem cells have markedly restricted differentiation potential. Therefore, for disorders that prove not to be treatable with adult stem cells, impeding human pluripotent stem cell research risks unnecessary delay for millions of patients who may die or endure needless suffering while the effectiveness of adult stem cells is evaluated.

The therapeutic promise of pluripotent stem cells is based on more than two decades of research in mice and other animal models. This research confirms that pluripotent stem cells are capable of generating all of the cell types of the body. Most importantly, the therapeutic potential of these cells has already been demonstrated. Cardiomyocytes generated in the laboratory from these cells have been transplanted into the hearts of dystrophic mice where they formed stable intracardiac grafts. Nerve cells have successfully reversed the progression of the equivalent of multiple sclerosis in mice and have restored function to the limbs of partially paralyzed rats; and insulin-secreting cells have normalized blood glucose in diabetic mice. These findings suggest that therapies using these cells may one day provide important new strategies for the treatment for a host of currently untreatable disorders.

While we recognize the legitimate ethical issues raised by this research, it is important to understand that the cells being used in this research were destined to be discarded in any case. Under these circumstances, it would be tragic to waste this opportunity to pursue the work that could potentially alleviate human suffering. For the past 35 years many of the common human virus vaccines -- such as measles, rubella, hepatitis A, rabies and poliovirus -- have been produced in cells derived from a human fetus to the benefit of tens of millions of Americans. Thus precedent has been established for the use of fetal tissue that would otherwise be discarded.

We urge you to allow research on pluripotent stem cells to continue with Federal support, so that the tremendous scientific and medical benefits of their use may one day become available to the millions of American patients who so desperately need them.


Therapeutic cloning and Stem Cell lines are ways to create multiple stem cells without loss of life. The stem cells are identical to the recipents, so rejection will not happen.
Link 2

Stem Cells have the potential to cure diseases like Diabetes, Anemia, Huntington's Chorea, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and others. Stem Cells are especially useful for neurological disorders, because neurons do not regenerate.
Here is a link on how Stem Cells are advancing Parkinson's Treatements:
Link 3
Link 4
Link 5

Fetal and Embryonic Stem cells are especially important because they are totipotent, they can turn into any kind of cell. Adult Stem cells cannot turn into any kind of cell, and that is why fetal stem cells are so important.
Link 6

Lastly, in vitro fertilization (IVF) is a way to harvest stem cells. The leftover fetuses from IVF are frozen and stored, creating a HUGE "vault" of Stem cells. And there is no killing of a fetus involved.
Link 7

As you can see, Embryonic and Fetal Stem cells are saving lives. They are the best way to advance medicine around the world, and can be done in an easy way. Who knows, maybe stem cells will save your life one day...





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#20    Abecrombie

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 02:33 AM

CONCLUSIONTeam 2
Abecrombie/Johnnyboyc
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Topic: FETAL - EMBRONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH TAKING LIVES   by breaking the code of life and its original delicate balance.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our team, 2, has condensed the many phases, complications, contradictions, irradications, cover-ups, illegal activity, and varieties of other such industries having access to, and using stem cells without it being expressed to the public. Due to the billion dollar global financial costs, and all of its uncertainties, the conclusion in turn, has been broken down into all of the reasons me and my team partner decided it is certain, taking into all the data and factual issues, this research of embryonic stem cells will and has TAKEN LIVES. There is simply not enough evidence of the opposing argument that it saves lives in this field of stem cell research. Concluding, there is without a doubt, lack of security in the work involving human life. Below are evidential means that like wildfire spreading, will, not when, consume the human population. By causing a disconcern for any of interests, rights, safety and truths that constitute life in every form. This, financial means profited is obviously one motive as this concerning issue plays a vital role in the many faces this research has if human DNA is the factor that causes such devatational effects on the population of life in every form.

Key points of consideration:

Scenario: imagine if the scorpion in the following fable below represents embryo stem cell research
The frog represented the Earth’s populated human race. READ THE FOLLOWING
                          

Quote

"The scorpion and the frog"
A scorpion out for a walk came upon a deep river. A frog was sitting along the banks. „How nice to meet you here,“ said the scorpion, „I’d like to ask you a favor.“ „You want to ask me a favor?“ the frog inquired. „That’s a little weird. When has a scorpion ever asked something of a frog?“ „Let’s put aside the enmity between the species,“ said the scorpion as he inched closer to the frog. „I’d like to be your friend!“
„I would really like to trust what you’re saying,“ the frog replied as he retreated a little in response to the scorpion’s advance. „But I’m still scared of you!“
The scorpion assured the frog that he was not true to type and that he longed to be friends with the frog. „Let me sit on your back and carry me across the water. I want to go visit my relatives on the other side of the river.“ „I’m afraid!“ the frog repeated. „I’m afraid that you’ll sting me and then I’ll die.“ „It’s very important to me that I meet up with my relatives! How can I, not being capable of swimming, ever cross the river unless someone carries me across trustingly on their back?“ And at that, the scorpion began to weep.
„Oh no, please don’t cry,“ said the frog, moved yet still skeptical. The scorpion, sensing his chance, pushed on. „And anyway, I’m not suicidal. If I were to sting you while I was on your back in the river, I’d fall off into the water and drown. Do you really think I’d be that dumb?“
That sounded very logical to the frog and he agreed. Once they reached the middle of the river, the frog felt the scorpion’s stinger go into his back. „What have you done!“ he exclaimed. „Now we’re both going to die!“ „I’m sorry,“ responded the dying scorpion. „I really had no choice. It’s just my nature to sting.“
(Freely adapted from an ancient fable in India.)


http://alternative-therapy-for-the-bipolar...rg/capter_8.php

Q: What constitutes life.? God has been a favorite answer and man and woman is an another, some say evolution even alien. We know from our ancestors and our prehistoric friends the dinosaur that animals were and still are an important part of the earth’s Eco system. Therefore, hence the term a delicate balance has been used by what life is generally. Human conception has constituted it as a form of life due to two counterparts making one as an individual being, from a cell fertilization is termed after conception takes place. So if one values life in general, would they impose potential harm to it or protect its vital origin?

SCIENCE – RELIGION = life. They both have many faces to its definition, and expressions of those faces could be frowning on life itself. You be the judge. Observe the findings that has this been so shocking for my own eyes as research in this debate.

Quote

“You kept me screened off in the belly of my mother”
Psalms139: 13



MAN AND ANIMAL= There are no doubts that both animal and man learn from observing eachother. We would have to if both need to co exhists and survive. Man learned by observing the fowls of the air that airplanes became a duplicate model. Man took the computers technology from mimicking the system of the brain. Children copy their parents in looks as well as physical attributes. Copy cat killers after their serial killers detestable behavior. To better understand ourselves and the animal world and keeping both exhisting, science has researchers and means to do a lot of duplicated beneficial lessons from life here in the universe and earth is alive and well.

FACT- humankind is the one animal on the planet that has freedom of choice and with animals has the intelligence that free will can create and do works that spark imaginations and creative independent thought.
Crows look down and observe man in their cars. Learning that cars crush things, the crows started hurling their nuts they could not crack to the tar paved streets where a car would be speeding through and right on over the nut to break it for them.

http://www.pastpaper.com/List-Life1965.htm

Then they learned, that going after the nut in the street at ground level got them killed so what did they do, they waited for the signal to change, knowing the car was going to stop and when persons below walked through the crosswalk, so did the crows to retreive the newly cracked open nut.

EXPERIMENTS – both human and animal experiments have been beneficial and informative to certain needs of life to continue. A fine line crosses it when harm or cruelty becomes centerstage. And in human experiments in any inhumane way becomes a discontinuing of the cause it could and future possible ethnic well being of what rights we all have for resect to life not to be an experiment for the independent mind of a man. A lot of controversy usually has to do with human life, rights, and morality.


THE CELL DIVIDED BY THREE = plant animal human – that delicate balance .Any harm done to one is harm to another in time and present.

Quote

“You kept me screened off in the belly of my mother” Psalms139: 13


http://www.pastpaper.com/List-Life1965.htm

POTENTIALS – Dangerous genetically cloned life in any form of the three above. Mixing is even worse and unpredictable when trying to master after mutations are the first obvious sign, potentially dangerous to try to altercate the strand of human DNA by a human stranger. Now who isn’t using their brain?
THREATS- our food resources are being genetically altered by cloning technologies, factory farming is one, and crop cloning another and the facts below will startle you.

CLONING CROPS. Pesticides that kill off insects in crops are effecting the consuming participant next up the Eco system, without knowing this. Animals cannot decide if they can consume chemically fed food, the population majority does not either.
Biochemical labs that genetically alter the cells of plant germs isolate projects of interests and modify it for market and production.

FOOD IRRADICATION cancer causing agents such as Benzene in our beverages has been going on for at least 15 years now with the knowledge being obviously threading for consumption. Issues are coming out of the woodworks just recently.

AGAIN…GO TO THE MEATRIX.COM

When time continues technology grows in to a competitive field of surviving in itself and today money is a main vein in the heartbeat of earth’s future by manipulating its cells. Man explodes in the numbers and survival is key so if money can purchase the most expensive tech to produce interests in gene altering, this is a underlined problem if potential dangers are present.
HYBRIDS –Ancient Egyptians domesticated the cat later modern men domesticated dog.  That was then, today there is talking about hosting animals for the purpose of human organs. Seems barbaric. No. IS BARBARIC .

Taking ovaries from female foetuses aborted at a late stage and finding ways to
Mature their eggs in the laboratory. After all, scientists believe that a female foetus
Has some 7 million eggs in its ovaries; whereas a new-born girl has just 1-2 million; a
Teenage girl even fewer and just 400 on average is released in a woman’s lifetime.
-- Genetically engineering foetuses so that girls are born with their full 7 million
Complement of eggs.
-- Creating eggs by getting human embryonic stem cells extracted from left over
IVF embryos to develop into egg cells, or simply fusing these embryonic stem cells
With the cells from the sick adult patient to develop suitable transplant cells.66
When I learnt about these research avenues, I began to wonder whether my focus on
The potential hazards for women in providing human eggs was perhaps too narrow –
Alternatively, perhaps just the tip of the iceberg. These other developments might not involve
Women’s eggs and might not involve embryos, but they still have grave implications
For health care, childcare, livelihoods, the public interest and gender equity and justice
– Issues that perhaps underlie our unease about egg donation in the first place. Maybe
Some prior questions need to be asked about why such research avenues are really
Being pursued, and who decided to follow and support them.
.
The history of funding research into molecular biology, genetics, reproduction and
Embryo research both in the last century and this is fascinating.69 it ebbs and flows
Between wealthy individuals, universities, corporate foundations, governments, large
Corporations and venture capitalists in different countries and regions. An article in
The Financial Times a few years ago on biotechnology regulation posed the question:
Who is regulating all the biotech activity? Its answer? “Firstly, the financial markets”.
But the financial markets, venture capitalists and pharmaceutical companies – all
Those who aim to make profit somehow out of their investments – have not been that
Interested in putting their money into embryonic stem cell research, even as they look
Forward to large markets for stem cell therapies in future.70 “Venture capital, the
Traditional engine of biotechnology, is remarkably scarce in stem cells” comments The
Economist.71 Another Financial Times article in 2002 suggested that “the finances of
The world’s cloning companies are so precarious that a lack of funding may soon
Accomplish what moral objections have so far been unable to do: bring research in the
Area to a halt.”72
The citizens of California, the richest US state
With an economy larger than that of the UK, voted for legislation in November 2004
To raise $3 billion in public money over 10 years to support stem cell research and
Cloning techniques. The total cost to Californian taxpayers, however, will be about $6
Billion. Other US states are now following suit. 78
Public funding in any country invariably provides not just money but also
Acceptability, legitimacy and the prospect of additional private sector finance.
Commenting on the new Californian legislation, for instance, the CEO of a San
Francisco life sciences merchant bank, Burrill & Company, said:
“At present, stem cell science is tainted. Proposition 71 [the name of the
Californian legislation] will legitimize a lot of research in the US, which under
Federal guidelines is perceived to be not investible”.


There is simply not enough evidence of the opposing argument that it saves lives in this field of stem cell research. Concluding, there is without a doubt, lack of security in the work involving human life. Population. By causing a disconcern for any of interests, rights, safety and truths that constitute life in every form. This, financial means profited is obviously one motive as this concerning issue plays a vital role in the many faces this research has if human DNA is the factor that causes such devatational effects on the population of life in every form.

CONSIDER Patient case studies to show a mass sum of successes might prove that this reasearch has potential. However, no posts were made for these implications to hold the argument. Consider and Compare what donors whom already are in action giving science voluntarily in wills after dying to science. Costs nothing. The donor decides to donate. Also there are options to have ones own bone marrow plasma extracted or blood for treating there own body if diseased later in life those would be stored for such necessity if it were having to occur. Again, it is an option with little to no risks. The fetal and embryonic stem cell research does not provide much except the definition of the cells ability to continue on, in the womb with placenta as the form of nourishment and oxygen until labor. Did anyone mention that the placenta could be cloned? Picture that? Not right- the placenta is vital for replacing the missing exchange of hormones the mother needs after birth, to replenish her system

OUR FINDINGS – resulting in, the potential to prove outcomes resulting in Conclusion
That this fetal embryonic stem cell research is TAKING LIVES.

Thanks to the BOARD and to our team as well
Abecrombie and JohnnyboyC



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#21    Lottie

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 11:05 AM

Well done you 4 on a really good argument. This has been our first proper 2v2 debate and you have all done brilliantly.

I will now hand this over to our  fab debate judges thumbsup.gif .


#22    frogfish

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 07:41 PM

We wish the best of luck to abercrombie and JohhnyBoyC!


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#23    Abecrombie

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 02:13 AM

FROGGY,....YELI,...AND LOTTIE    LOL happy.gif

thanks guys ,and good luck to you  grin2.gif
i thought we were respectful and made for a good argument it was fun and thanks to you as well lottie for keeping us on top of it.
i'LL SPEAK FOR THE BOTH OF US JOHNNY WONT MIND WE A TEAM OR WAS A TEAM.LOL



Abe'crombie and JohnnyboyC

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#24    Lottie

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 12:46 PM

Your welcome abecrombie, you all did fantastically well.

Okay and now its back to our debate judges...  thumbsup.gif


#25    Kryso

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 02:25 PM

Great Debate, and the first of its kind on UM.

Both sides done amazingly, all considered, when it was two aside!

On a personally note (no offence meant) but Team 2 you seem to wander to a more personally approach rather than facts (which made it a little confusing at times?) Which is all well-and-good, but Team 1 stuck to the factual side, which reflected in my scoring.  

Once again, well done all four of you! I really got into this debate.

Team 1- Yelekiah - A and FrogFish -B
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 9
Style: 9
Persuasiveness: 9
Total: 37

Team 2 - JohnnyBoyC - A and abecrombie -B

Relevancy: 7
Countering: 8
Style: 7
Persuasiveness: 7
Total: 29



#26    thebarman

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 11:55 AM

An interesting debate, I felt that perhaps team 2 could have shown a little more evidence of consultation with perhaps longer posts from JohnnyBoyC and shorter ones from abecrombie to even out the material you had between the two.

Some posts were quite difficult to read and I thought went off on too great a tangent, although saying that I appreciate it is difficult to find sources against stem cell research as it is a very moral and religious argument which is central to ones personal beleifs rather than scientific fact.

Yelekiah, I was especially impressed with your posts which I found informative, well structured and a pleasure to read although I did feel it was unnessacery to quote such large passages from abecrombie which you had simply deemed irrellavent.

Team 1- Yelekiah - A and FrogFish -B
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 8
Style: 9
Persuasiveness: 8
Total: 35

Team 2 - JohnnyBoyC - A and abecrombie -B
Relevancy: 7
Countering: 7
Style: 4
Persuasiveness: 6
Total: 24

I guess that firmly puts me in the position of "The nasty judge"

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#27    Irish

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 03:51 PM

Wow! A lot of information to discern. Great job all of you. I have to agree with the barman somewhat team 2 should have consulted more with each other as it appeared you were not always supporting each other as well as you could have. Probably more because the team approach is new.
Good resource and supporting documentation on both teams.
Well done, all of you, it defiantly adds a new dimension to the debating process. thumbsup.gif


Team 1- Yelekiah - A and FrogFish -B
Relevancy: 10
Countering: 8
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 7
Total: 33

Team 2 - JohnnyBoyC - A and abecrombie -B
Relevancy: 9
Countering: 8
Style: 7
Persuasiveness: 7
Total: 31


Most people do not want to know the truth they only want confirmation for what they think is truth.

#28    Lottie

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 04:41 PM

Okay the scores are in!

Yelekiah and FrogFish score a massive 35 points

abercrombie and JohnnyboyC score an impressive 28 points

Congratulations to our winners.

I do feel though that you are all winners. This was the first time UM has actually ever had a complete 2v2 debate and I hope that in the future your debate will be the prelude to many more. thumbsup.gif





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