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Is Lucifer God To the Freemasons? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Hermetic Hermit 


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Posted 08 March 2006 - 07:34 PM

Or more accurately put, is Lucifer the Supreme Being to the Freemasons? Obviuosly not.

Lucifer is not the Great Architect of the Universe (G.A.O.T.U.) so Freemasons must not worship Lucifer as God. But what of all those quotes from Albert Pike, Madame Blavatsky and Eliphas Levi?

"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" -- Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry

"Lucifer represents.. Life.. Thought.. Progress.. Civilization.. Liberty.. Independance.. Lucifer is the Logos.. the Serpent, the Savior." -- Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, 'The Secret Doctrine'

"What is more absurd and more impious than to attribute the name of Lucifer to the devil, that is, to personified evil. The intellectual Lucifer is the spirit of intelligence and love; it is the paraclete, it is the Holy Spirit, while the physical Lucifer is the great agent of universal magnetism." -- Eliphas Levi, 'The Mysteries Of Magic'

So who is this Lucifer? And why does the occult hold him in such high regard?

I will explain it as best I can using sources to back it up. Why am I doing this? I believe there are many misconceptions regarding Freemasonry and they should be cleared up. The Lucifer issue being the main one, IMO, which leads to accusations of devil worship.

And I am aware of the other thread here, which got off topic as most threads involving Freemasonry do, that touched on the "Devil worshiping" Freemasons.

Am I a Freemason? No.

But I am very interested in the occult. So I may have some answers that some here might appreciate but I have no oath or obligation to withold any information.

So who is this Lucifer fellow?

For starters Lucifer is not the Devil, Satan or whichever name you wish to use. But first let's look at the Devil...

Satan

In the Hebrew Bible

In the Hebrew Bible, Satan is to be better understood as an "accuser" or "adversary" than as an embodiment of "evil." The term is applied both to divine and human beings.

In Rabbinic literature

Early rabbinic Jewish statements in the Mishnah and Talmud show that Satan played little or no role in Jewish theology. In the course of time, however, Judaism absorbed the popular concepts of Satan, most likely inherited from Zoroastrianism. The later a rabbinic work can be dated the more frequent is the mention therein of Satan and his hosts.

In the New Testament

Satan figures much more prominently in the New Testament and in Christian theology generally. In the New Testament, Satan appears as a tempter for Jesus, for example. In John Milton's epic poem Paradise Lost, the theme is further developed—Satan is believed to have been an archangel who turned against God before the creation of man.

The belief that Satan is in Hell has its roots in Christian literature rather than in the Bible. The Bible states that he still roams heaven and earth. Job 1:6 states that Satan appeared with other angels "before the Lord," presumably in heaven. When God asked Satan where he had been, Satan replied, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." Satan has not been and is not in Hell.

**

So the whole concept of the Devil or Satan ruling Hell has more to do with Zoroastrianism duality and Christian literature than the Bible.

But what of Lucifer the fallen angel?

Lucifer

Lucifer is a Latin word made up of two words, lux (light; genitive lucis) and ferre (to bear, to bring), meaning light-bearer. Lucifer appears in Greek mythology as heosphoros, the "Dawn-bringer"; it is used by poets to represent the Morning Star at moments when "Venus" would introduce distracting imagery of the goddess. "Lucifer" is Jerome's direct translation in his Vulgate (4th century) of the Septuagint's Greek translation, as heosphoros, "morning star" or "Day Star," literally "bringer of the Dawn", of a phrase from Isaiah 14:12.

Modern astrologers identify the planet Venus as having been known by the name Lucifer in Roman astrology before being given its current name.

Lucifer in the Christian tradition

In the fully-developed Christian interpretation, Jerome's Vulgate translation of Isaiah 14:12 has made Lucifer the name of the principal fallen angel, who must lament the loss of his original glory as the morning star. This image at last defines the character of Satan; where the Church Fathers had maintained that lucifer was not the proper name of the Devil, and that it referred rather to the state from which he had fallen; St. Jerome transformed it into Satan's proper name.

It is noteworthy that the Old Testament itself does not at any point actually mention the rebellion and fall of Satan directly. This non-Scriptural belief assembled from interpretations of different passages, would fall under the heading Christian mythology, except that the very idea of a Christian mythology is widely attacked as offensive.

**

So the connection between Lucifer and Satan, the Devil, is a questionable one. Let's look at Isaiah 14:12...

New King James Version - Isaiah 14:12

"How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!"

New American Standard Bible - Isaiah 14:12

"How you have fallen from heaven,
O star of the morning, son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the earth,
You who have weakened the nations!"

**

Let's compare some passages that contain the term lucifer...

Isaiah 14:12

KJV "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!"

Vulgate "quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes"

2 Peter 1:19

KJV "And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts"

Vulgate "et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris"

**

So the translation of lucifer to morning star or the translation of lucifer to Lucifer was the discretion of the translator.

Some futher evidence that Lucifer is not synonymous with Satan or the Devil...

Saint Lucifer

Lucifer or Lucifer Calaritanus (d. 370 or 371) was a bishop of Cagliari in Sardinia and Christian saint known for his passionate opposition to Arianism.

At the Council of Milan in 354 he defended Athanasius, and he opposed the Arians so powerfully that they had the Emperor Constantius (an Arian sympathizer) to confine Lucifer for three days in the palace. While in confinement, Saint Lucifer argued so strongly with the emperor that he was banished, first to Palestine and then to Thebes, Egypt. While in exile, he wrote fiery letters to the emperor that put him in danger of martyrdom.

After the death of Constantius and the coronation of Julian the Apostate, Lucifer was released in 362. However, he would not be reconciled to former Arians. He consecrated bishop Paulinus, without license, creating the schism of Meletius. He may have been excommunicated, as is hinted in the writings of Saint Ambrose and Saint Augustine and Saint Jerome, who refers to his followers as Luciferians, a sect that survived in scattered remnants into the early 5th century. Jerome, in his polemic Altercatio Luciferiani et orthodoxi ("Altercation of the Luciferian and the orthodox"), offers almost all that is known of Lucifer or the sect.

His feast day in the Catholic Church is May 20. His name demonstrates that "Lucifer" (meaning "light-bringer") was not yet merely a synonym of "Satan" in the 4th century. However, hasty references by enthusiastic 19th century biblical scholars assumed from the name that the Luciferians were Satanists. Therefore, although his cultus has not been suppressed nor his canonization reevaluated, he is not often celebrated or spoken of in the calendar.

**

Well I have to say this connection is falling apart quite rapidly. Some passages from the Bible that mention the "morning star", Lucifer?

Revelation 22:16

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

Revelation 2:26-29

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

And I will give him the morning star.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

2 Peter 1:19

"And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts."

**

So according to Jerome, Revelation 22:16 should read...

"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] Lucifer."

So Jesus claims to be Lucifer, the Light-Bearer. Is Jesus the light?

John 1:6-10

"There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John.

The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe.

He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light.

[That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."

John 8:12

"Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

**

But what of the Pentagram, the symbol of Satan? Freemasons use that symbol.

The Pentagram

The pentagram has long been associated with the planet Venus and the worship of the goddess Venus, or her equivalent. It is most likely to have originated from the observations of prehistoric astronomers. When viewed from Earth, successive inferior conjunctions of Venus plot a nearly perfect pentagram shape around the Sun every eight years.

**

So Lucifer ties to Venus, the Pentagram ties to Veus/Lucifer and Jesus calls himself "the bright and morning star"/Venus/Lucifer/the Pentagram.

A side note: Buddha attained enlightenment "when the morning star appeared in the eastern sky, the struggle was over and the Prince's mind was as clear and bright as the day-break." - The Life of Gotama Buddha

Venus the morning star, Lucifer, Jesus and Buddha represent enlightenment.

"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!"

Doubt it not!

This post has been edited by Hermetic Hermit: 08 March 2006 - 07:45 PM

"The ancient Mysteries did not cease to exist when Christianity became the world's most powerful religion. Great Pan did not die! Freemasonry is the proof of his survival. The pre-Christian Mysteries simply assumed the symbolism of the new faith, perpetuating through its emblems and allegories the same truths which had been the property of the wise since the beginning of the world." - Manly P. Hall

#2 User is offline   MartOh 


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Posted 08 March 2006 - 08:31 PM

I don't have time to read all this.But i'll tell ya something,the true question is ,does he really exsist?

This post has been edited by MartOh: 08 March 2006 - 08:32 PM


#3 User is offline   Sanjuro 


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Posted 08 March 2006 - 08:43 PM

There was a topic about this..

hmm..oh yes..here it is..
http://www.unexplain...pic=62812&st=15

I am pretty sure he is a God for many mason leaders.
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Posted 08 March 2006 - 09:02 PM

Quote


I don't have time to read all this.But i'll tell ya something,the true question is ,does he really exsist?


Then how do you know I didn't answer that question in my post?

But to answer your question, "does he really exist?", I'll ask some questions...

Does God really exist?

Do you really exist in terms of the absolute?

Do I really exist in the absolute?

But to avoid this thread going off topic, I will answer as clearly as I can.

No. But I believe in "him".

Just because it isn't real, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
"The ancient Mysteries did not cease to exist when Christianity became the world's most powerful religion. Great Pan did not die! Freemasonry is the proof of his survival. The pre-Christian Mysteries simply assumed the symbolism of the new faith, perpetuating through its emblems and allegories the same truths which had been the property of the wise since the beginning of the world." - Manly P. Hall

#5 User is offline   Hermetic Hermit 


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Posted 08 March 2006 - 09:06 PM

Quote


There was a topic about this..

hmm..oh yes..here it is..
http://www.unexplain...pic=62812&st=15

I am pretty sure he is a God for many mason leaders.


Yes I mentioned that thread in my post.

Who is "he"?

The Devil/Satan?

Jesus?

The G.A.O.T.U.?

If "he" is truly "God" to Freemasons.
"The ancient Mysteries did not cease to exist when Christianity became the world's most powerful religion. Great Pan did not die! Freemasonry is the proof of his survival. The pre-Christian Mysteries simply assumed the symbolism of the new faith, perpetuating through its emblems and allegories the same truths which had been the property of the wise since the beginning of the world." - Manly P. Hall

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 09:34 PM

Quote


Then how do you know I didn't answer that question in my post?

But to answer your question, "does he really exist?", I'll ask some questions...

Does God really exist?

Do you really exist in terms of the absolute?

Do I really exist in the absolute?

But to avoid this thread going off topic, I will answer as clearly as I can.

No. But I believe in "him".

Just because it isn't real, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Just because it isn't real, doesn't mean it is a question of existence, when you don't know what it is. That is why you ask. Who you ask is a more important question than what it is you think "it" is your asking about - and that of whom.

Believe it or not. That is the way "it" is.

This post has been edited by PFlack: 08 March 2006 - 09:36 PM

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 11:09 PM

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Just because it isn't real, doesn't mean it is a question of existence, when you don't know what it is. That is why you ask. Who you ask is a more important question than what it is you think "it" is your asking about - and that of whom.

Believe it or not. That is the way "it" is.


Thank you for the reply.

"But to avoid this thread going off topic, I will answer as clearly as I can.

No. But I believe in 'him'."
"The ancient Mysteries did not cease to exist when Christianity became the world's most powerful religion. Great Pan did not die! Freemasonry is the proof of his survival. The pre-Christian Mysteries simply assumed the symbolism of the new faith, perpetuating through its emblems and allegories the same truths which had been the property of the wise since the beginning of the world." - Manly P. Hall

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 05:04 AM

Oh puh-lease. Not again. rolleyes.gif You know, I could answer as a Freemason, a Rosicrucian, a mystic, and an occultist, but I have no doubt that whatever I would say would fall on deaf ears since the person posting it already has made up their mind in-spite of all evidence, so why waste my time?

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 10:20 AM

Quote


Oh puh-lease. Not again. rolleyes.gif You know, I could answer as a Freemason, a Rosicrucian, a mystic, and an occultist.

You forgot to tell : member of Illuminati. thumbsup.gif
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#10 User is offline   MartOh 


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Posted 09 March 2006 - 12:19 PM

Hermit, if you are Lucifer's (let's say) fan,then you're a supporter of the evil.Because he is a powerful demon, therfore god wouldn't be so happy when you die and meet him.And if there is heaven and hell,then you'll probabbly go down devil.gif (if you know what i mean).

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 02:30 PM

I like the wealth of information, but the simple answer is no.
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Posted 09 March 2006 - 04:40 PM

Quote


Oh puh-lease. Not again. rolleyes.gif You know, I could answer as a Freemason, a Rosicrucian, a mystic, and an occultist, but I have no doubt that whatever I would say would fall on deaf ears since the person posting it already has made up their mind in-spite of all evidence, so why waste my time?


Are you "Oh puh-lease"-ing me?

If so how about answering not "as a Freemason, Rosicrucian, a mystic, and an occultist" but as someone who read the post.

Why waste your time? So you don't make a fool of yourself and miss the entire point of my post, for starters.

If your post was not directed at me, I apologize for my mistake. And if it is not, what do you think of the information? Any comments? Any disagreements?
"The ancient Mysteries did not cease to exist when Christianity became the world's most powerful religion. Great Pan did not die! Freemasonry is the proof of his survival. The pre-Christian Mysteries simply assumed the symbolism of the new faith, perpetuating through its emblems and allegories the same truths which had been the property of the wise since the beginning of the world." - Manly P. Hall

#13 User is offline   Hermetic Hermit 


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Posted 09 March 2006 - 04:53 PM

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Hermit, if you are Lucifer's (let's say) fan,then you're a supporter of the evil.Because he is a powerful demon, therfore god wouldn't be so happy when you die and meet him.And if there is heaven and hell,then you'll probabbly go down devil.gif (if you know what i mean).


What evil? I explained in my post that the connection, made by the Church, is an erroneous one. If you have any specific point that you disagree with, bring it up.

He is not a powerful "demon", as I explained.

**

Isaiah 14:12

KJV "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!"

Vulgate "quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes"

2 Peter 1:19

KJV "And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts"

Vulgate "et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris"

*

His(Saint Lucifer) feast day in the Catholic Church is May 20. His name demonstrates that "Lucifer" (meaning "light-bringer") was not yet merely a synonym of "Satan" in the 4th century. However, hasty references by enthusiastic 19th century biblical scholars assumed from the name that the Luciferians were Satanists. Therefore, although his cultus has not been suppressed nor his canonization reevaluated, he is not often celebrated or spoken of in the calendar.

*

Revelation 22:16

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

Translation...

Revelation 22:16

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] Lucifer.

**

Here is some more evidence that the Lucifer-Satan/Devil connection is flat wrong...

BibleTexts.com Questions, Insights, & Responses

Lucifer, the English translation in the kjv (Isa. 14:12) of the Hebrew word meaning 'light bringer' or 'shining one,' sometimes designating the morning (or day) star, that is, Venus (cf. rsv: 'Day Star'). The English word 'Lucifer' comes from the Latin for 'light bearer.' In Isa. 14:12, the King of Babylon, in an apparent reference to Canaanite mythology, is tauntingly called 'Day Star, son of Dawn' because he has fallen from his lofty but temporary position of power. In the Christian church, this passage from Isaiah came to be connected with Jesus' saying in Luke 10:18: 'I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.' Thus the connection was made (erroneously) between Lucifer and Satan, and Lucifer was popularly understood as another name for Satan.

**

So far I have not seen anyone take a single point I have made and debate it, all I see is "therfore god wouldn't be so happy when you die and meet him.And if there is heaven and hell,then you'll probabbly go down devil.gif (if you know what i mean)".

But what can I expect though from 1600+ years of disinformation by the Church?

Has the morning star risen in your heart? I doubt it. Still clinging to falsehoods? I hope not.

This post has been edited by Hermetic Hermit: 09 March 2006 - 05:03 PM

"The ancient Mysteries did not cease to exist when Christianity became the world's most powerful religion. Great Pan did not die! Freemasonry is the proof of his survival. The pre-Christian Mysteries simply assumed the symbolism of the new faith, perpetuating through its emblems and allegories the same truths which had been the property of the wise since the beginning of the world." - Manly P. Hall

#14 User is offline   Hermetic Hermit 


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Posted 09 March 2006 - 05:02 PM

Quote


I like the wealth of information, but the simple answer is no.


Thank you and you're welcome for the information.

"but the simple answer is no", put simply I agree.

Chaote?

This post has been edited by Hermetic Hermit: 09 March 2006 - 05:31 PM

"The ancient Mysteries did not cease to exist when Christianity became the world's most powerful religion. Great Pan did not die! Freemasonry is the proof of his survival. The pre-Christian Mysteries simply assumed the symbolism of the new faith, perpetuating through its emblems and allegories the same truths which had been the property of the wise since the beginning of the world." - Manly P. Hall

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 06:23 PM

Quote


Are you "Oh puh-lease"-ing me?

If so how about answering not "as a Freemason, Rosicrucian, a mystic, and an occultist" but as someone who read the post.

Why waste your time? So you don't make a fool of yourself and miss the entire point of my post, for starters.

If your post was not directed at me, I apologize for my mistake. And if it is not, what do you think of the information? Any comments? Any disagreements?


He's just pissed that you are confirming for everyone that Lucifer the bearer of light, who provides information contained in the fruit from the tree of knowledge, is the one who Masons look up to. the 33rd degree is split in at least two. Half who are Christian oriented, and the other half the Luciferian faction, that goes higher up the pyramid of power towards the true Illuminati.

Before people like you and Rosencreuz came on board, everyone thought people like you didn't exist, and it was all made up. Rosencreuz has verified the Illuminati still exist to this day and are working towards enlightening the world in the illumination of the morning star. You have my faith even stronger. thumbsup.gif

You have to get to know your enemy to find his flaws in order to destroy them.

Quote

2 Timothy 3

Godlessness in the Last Days
3:1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9 But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

All Scripture Is Breathed Out by God
10 You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, 11 my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra—which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. 12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom [1] you learned it 15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God [2] may be competent, equipped for every good work.

He who molds opinion is greater than he who enacts laws.
--President Abraham Lincoln

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