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Vegaterians


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#61    hyperactive

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 07:04 AM

Quote


how old am i ? ? ? ? ?

hyper is talking about taking a crap and not using toilet paper, how sanitary is that ?

and you ask how old i am ?

tell me there isnt a large section of the population not using toilet paper, cause that is just wrong

and you wonder how old i am  rolleyes.gif

thats just wrong?

how interesting.  we yet again find the imposition of false absolutes.....

let me ask you, if you don't need something is it "just wrong" to not use it?


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
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#62    Sherapy

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 07:04 AM

Quote


how old am i ? ? ? ? ?

hyper is talking about taking a crap and not using toilet paper, how sanitary is that ?

and you ask how old i am ?

tell me there isnt a large section of the population not using toilet paper, cause that is just wrong

and you wonder how old i am  rolleyes.gif

E.T hyper was speaking metaphorically, not literally lol there is another rule of thumb if you can open your reading material you have been on the crapper to long,your speed of elimination is a guage on the health of the intestines is what he is saying....... grin2.gif This is well established in the medical community for sh**s and giggles ask your doc the next visit okay laugh.gif

Edited by Sheri berri, 13 March 2006 - 07:05 AM.




#63    et's daddy

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 07:07 AM

Quote


thats just wrong?

how interesting.  we yet again find the imposition of false absolutes.....

let me ask you, if you don't need something is it "just wrong" to not use it?



Quote


E.T hyper was speaking metaphorically, not literally


metaphorically ?

you sure ?



#64    hyperactive

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 07:10 AM

et,

i think you are a little anally fixated... rofl.gif


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
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#65    Sherapy

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 07:18 AM

Quote


metaphorically ?

you sure ?

yes, he often uses metaphores to convey complex ideas, its okay really.... rofl.gif




#66    et's daddy

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 07:33 AM

ok enough about poo, back on topic  lol

would you feelings change at all if  you found out plants felt pain when we cut them down ?


is there something lab made you can eat and survive healty on ?



#67    Sherapy

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 07:43 AM

Such as the frankenfoods (GMOS) No thanks i'll pass not enough studies on them at this point...I'm fairly certain plants don't feel pain, but again i don't think that gives me the free rein to abuse the soil and kill the whole plant if you know what i mean, i use what i need only and would  care for the plants, it makes me think There is a difference between cutting out your heart and trimming your hair ........Would you quit eating meat if you though t you would be causing your body pain down the road?????In order to be asking these questions you must have some interest in investigating an area you hadn't before correct?????




#68    et's daddy

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 07:49 AM

i do have interest, as i am the thread starter

i just didnt see enough evidence to support such a radical change in my lifestyle

and it seems cutting what you need of a plant to eat a little at a time could almost be compared to just cutting a leg off a cow and replacing it with a fake leg

true the leg wont grow back, but the pain or feeling the missing part could be the same

i thought i had read somewhere that trees can "sense" missing branches

have no idea if it is true though



#69    Sherapy

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 07:56 AM

Quote


i do have interest, as i am the thread starter

i just didnt see enough evidence to support such a radical change in my lifestyle

and it seems cutting what you need of a plant to eat a little at a time could almost be compared to just cutting a leg off a cow and replacing it with a fake leg

true the leg wont grow back, but the pain or feeling the missing part could be the same

i thought i had read somewhere that trees can "sense" missing branches

have no idea if it is true though

Et Hyper and i are very serious vegans and came over to share with you the beneifits of the lifestyle< i don't follow your logic on the plant growing back and the cows leg never growing back, possibly plants are meant to eat???? You still don't see evidence to make changes in your diet??? i didn't go vegan all at once i gave up meat first with the conditon I would go back if i chose, i have to date not regretted my decison at all, its a funny thing i used to be a smoker 6 years ago and not one moment is spent saying gosh dammit I wish i would of smoked another cigarette i do wish i would of never smoked at all, its the same with meat and most say that too, I wish i'would of done the vegan thing earlier., truly had i of known the health benefits i would reap. Hindsiteis 20 20  , I'm almost 40 health is a concern . bon appetite on the cows legs and  whatever other animals you chew on grin2.gif  thumbsup.gif

Edited by Sheri berri, 13 March 2006 - 08:02 AM.




#70    ADHD Inattentive

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 10:57 AM

I'm a vegetarian also...

I just can’t bring myself to eat a slab flesh anymore. Every time I see chicken or beef I immediately hear a cow mooing or a chicken clucking and it just makes me wanna hurl.


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#71    whoa182

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 01:22 PM

Quote

my grandfather was over-weight and he lived to be 96


Sorry this is a bit off topic now because CR isnt vegetarianism.

Quote

ou have a source for this ?


Well great... but that doesn't mean anything because on a big population scale you wouldn't see this, there aren't any fat centenarians out there right?  Also just to point out, in animal studies CR has nothing to do with weight, ob/ob mice are genetically different so they are obese, when put on CR they live upto 50% longer and are still overweight.

in okinawa for example they eat around 20% less and many become centenarians. Okinawa has the longest life expectancy in the world. They don't even do retirement, they still work beyond 100.

Here was a study done on some people doing long term calorie restriction:

http://mednews.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/...ml?emailID=7755

Quote

This decline in diastolic function is a marker of primary aging," Fontana says. "Diastolic function declines in most people as they get older, but in this study we found that diastolic function in calorie-restricted people resembled diastolic function in individuals about 15 years younger."


Quote

Their serum levels of a pro-inflammatory molecule called tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNFa) were significantly lower. They also had less C-reactive protein (CRP).


CR extends average and maximum life span in every animal ever tested and it's worked consistantly since the 1930's.  30% cr in monkeys is currently on going and they have superior health to the controls.

This is what hapens in mice when you restrict calories

user posted image

Also CR prevents or delays nearly every known lethal and non lethal disease

here is an interesting read: Low calories tied to long life
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/...1/ln/ln11a.html

There are hundreds of studies done so just look for them if you are interested

you can find lots of information and references here: http://www.cron-web.org/


Edited by whoa182, 13 March 2006 - 01:38 PM.

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#72    whoa182

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 01:41 PM

I also have been following calorie restriction since I turned 20 and have had excellent improvements in health. All my allergies dissapeared, don't get sick anymore, which is common because CRONers have improved viral immunity, some haven't been sick since they started 15 years ago!, i haven't been sick once since starting, yet my immediate family have been ill with colds, flu, somtach bugs many times over the last year. My memory has also improved and concentration. I also don't get headaches anymore or ibs.

I restrict calories by 20% (1800k/cal) and this is my diet  thumbsup.gif

Quote

Breakfast

Food #1 : Quaker Rolled Oats (w/water)
Food #2 : Milk, (fat free or skim)
Food #3 : Nuts, almonds, dried, unblanched
Food #4 : Nuts, brazilnuts, dried, unblanched
Food #5 : Bananas, raw
Food #6 : Blueberries, raw
Food #7 : Whey Protein drink
Food #8 : Strawberries
Essential Mix (Vitamins / minerals and other things)

Sometimes 3g lindt dark chocolate on porridge
( all above mixed into porridge together! except strawberries)

Snacks:

Food #9 : stawberry low fat yoghurt
Food #10 : Nuts, almonds, dried, unblanched
Zinc / Copper balance supplement
EPA Concentrate

Dinner:

Food #11 : Brussels sprouts
Food #12 : Broccoli, raw
Food #13 : Extra Virgin Olive Oil (if I have chicken instead of salmon)
Food #14 : Salmon
Food #15 : Carrots
Food #16 : Cauliflower
Food #17 : Mushrooms
Food #18 : Basil
Food #19 : Lemon Juice
Food #20 : Salsa
Food #21 : Garlic
Food #22 : Green beans
Food #23 : Balsamic Vinegar

salad later on in the night

Food #24 : Spinach
Food #25 : Red Cabbage
Food #26 : Red Onion
Food #27 : Basil
Food #28 : Garlic
Food #29 : Balsamic Vinegar
Food #30 : Tomatoes

Food #31 : Egg whites
Food #32 : Flax Oil

Food #33 : Apples
Food #34 : Blueberries
Food #35 : 100ml Orange juice (somtimes)




Edited by whoa182, 13 March 2006 - 01:43 PM.

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#73    et's daddy

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 04:06 PM

i just wish you had more studies on humans

i am glad for you though, going so long without illness and allergies is a great accomplishment

however, dont you think atleast some of it could be attributed to will of the mind ?

ya know, i think it will work therefore it does

im not saying it isnt working, i just think a positive attitude helps



#74    whoa182

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 04:38 PM

Quote


i just wish you had more studies on humans

dont you think atleast some of it could be attributed to will of the mind ? ya know, i think it will work therefore it does. I'm not saying it isnt working, i just think a positive attitude helps



I understand what you mean, the placebo affect. There are quite a few studies done on humans and more in the near future. You can see on this website a whole list of diseases that CR has been proven to prevent or slow down. Look on the left side to choose spefic evidence for each condition: http://www.anti-aging-guide.com/

When a person or animal does calorie restriction, changes happen at the cellular level. Expression certain genes change and it benifits the organism. The changes are very real and explain why the animal or person has these benifits. Many people that go under caloric restriction have a 30% decrease in WBC and are generally under the normal reference range, but at the same time have improved immune function.  I wasn't expecting the improvements i seen in my own conditions but they just happend, I later found out that the same is true for all others that do CR. Quite amazing really...


Here are my latest blood results and are typical of someone doing CR>

Blood Pressure = 90/58  
Total Cholesterol = 120mg (3.1)
HDL cholesterol = 46mg/dl
LDL cholesterol = 65mg/dl
Triglycerides = 35mg/dl

It's the same kind of results we also see in animals.

I just got this in my inbox the other day:

Quote

The effect on health of alternate day calorie restriction: Eating less and more than needed on alternate days prolongs life

The effect on health of alternate day calorie restriction: Eating less and more than needed on alternate days prolongs life "Restricting caloric intake to 60–70% of normal adult weight maintenance requirement prolongs lifespan 30–50% and confers near perfect health across a broad range of species. Every other day feeding produces similar effects in rodents, and profound beneficial physiologic changes have been demonstrated in the absence of weight loss in ob/ob mice.

Since May 2003 we have experimented with alternate day calorie restriction, one day consuming 20–50% of estimated daily caloric requirement and the next day ad lib eating, and have observed health benefits starting in as little as two weeks, in insulin resistance, asthma, seasonal allergies, infectious diseases of viral, bacterial and fungal origin (viral URI, recurrent bacterial tonsillitis, chronic sinusitis, periodontal disease), autoimmune disorder (rheumatoid arthritis), osteoarthritis, symptoms due to CNS inflammatory lesions (Tourette’s, Meniere’s) cardiac arrhythmias (PVCs, atrial fibrillation), menopause related hot flashes. We hypothesize that other many conditions would be delayed, prevented or improved, including Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, multiple sclerosis, brain injury due to thrombotic stroke atherosclerosis, NIDDM, congestive heart failure."

"Our hypothesis is supported by an article from 1957 in the Spanish medical literature which due to a translation error has been construed by several authors to be the only existing example of calorie restriction with good nutrition. We contend for reasons cited that there was no reduction in calories overall, but that the subjects were eating, on alternate days, either 900 calories or 2300 calories, averaging 1600, and that body weight was maintained. Thus they consumed either 56% or 144% of daily caloric requirement. The subjects were in a residence for old people, and all were in perfect health and over 65. Over three years, there were 6 deaths among 60 study subjects and 13 deaths among 60 ad lib-fed controls, non-significant difference. Study subjects were in hospital 123 days, controls 219, highly significant difference. We believe widespread use of this pattern of eating could impact influenza epidemics and other communicable diseases by improving resistance to infection. In addition to the health effects, this pattern of eating has proven to be a good method of weight control, and we are continuing to study the process in conjunction with the NIH."

"In collaboration with Mark Mattson, PhD, Chief, Neurosciences Laboratory, Gerontology Research Center, National Institute of Aging, National Institutes of Health, we are nearing completion of a manuscript describing an IRB approved 8 week pilot study of the effect of following a repeating pattern of eating ad lib one day and 20% of daily caloric requirement the next day on subjects with moderate persistent asthma. Preliminary results show highly significant improvement in parameters of pulmonary function and markers of inflammation and oxidative damage and will be submitted to a peer-reviewed medical journal."


Edited by whoa182, 13 March 2006 - 04:42 PM.

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#75    FrothyDog

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 04:41 PM

The living longer may not be due to calorie reduction at all.  it may be a healthier diet that does the trick.  if you look at whoa182's diet, that would make anyone healthy.  it is well balanced, with lots of fruits and vegetables.  and it looks delicious.  compared to what an average american eats, with candy bars, fast food, and packaged meals, it is no wonder that people who eat like whoa182 are healthier.

cut out sodas if you want to be healthier.  it is tough to do, but it goes such a long way toward a healther lifestyle.  high fructose corn syrup is not good for anybody.

the secret to healthier living just seems to be:  eat right and exercise!





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