Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Before The Big Bang


  • Please log in to reply
66 replies to this topic

#16    j6p

j6p

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 535 posts
  • Joined:23 Jan 2003

Posted 26 January 2003 - 02:54 AM

                                                Hello, I hope I'm not out of line here but I've been reading some of the back posts and this post and the one about Zero point energy are among some of the stuff that has captured my interest for the past year or so.
I have one basic thought, that is - once there was nothing and now we are here. That leaves me with the problem of finding out how to get something from nothing, hmmm, not too hard to do --- yeah right lol.
But then came along ZPE and virtual particles, there is some wiggle room here.
I've been on some physics forums and to tell you the truth, I don't understand much of what they say or how they communicate. I'm not that smart. I'm not good at math but I can understand that somehow something came from nothing. I even alluded to this in my BIO when I joined here. Einstein knew that there was a simple clean answer to this problem but he died before he could put his finger on it, poor Albert - he is my mentor.
My thoughts have recently gone to the area of vacuum expansion, I like what its telling me.
I had better stop here because I can talk about this subject forever and I don't want to put anyone off or cause my friends here not to want to talk to me, thinking I'm an old wind bag...actually I am an old wind bag.                                                  


#17    Homer

Homer

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,814 posts
  • Joined:16 Mar 2001
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 26 January 2003 - 05:27 AM

                                                j6p,
Very interesting stuff, isn't it? I like Einstein as well, a very intelligent person, relatively speaking biggrin.gif

About virtual particles, and creating something out of nothing, have you read anything on Stephen Hawking? Hawking Radiation is what I'm refering to. I'm not going to explain it in a post, but look into it if you have time. It explains the creation of particles out of nothing, and to make it interesting, whenever particles are created out of nothing, both positive and negative charged particles are created. Matter and antimatter.
                                                

אַ֭תָּה אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׁעִ֑י

#18    Kismit

Kismit

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,680 posts
  • Joined:02 Nov 2001
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:New zealand

Posted 26 January 2003 - 09:39 AM

                                                I don't think the life has not gone out of it just yet.In fact I'm going to ressurect it . (Hahahaha Life damn it I give you life *maniacle laugh*)
In a scientific sense the universe was created by the Big Bang when a small burnt out star imploaded in on itself or there abouts right .So I would think the best theory for what came before the Big bang is an strugle of forces retracting in on each other and then forcing out.Big bang to burnt out star to big bang and so on .
As to the 5 dimensional universe theory I don't by it . I think the human race has limited itself to 3 dimensional thinking for long enough , there must be dozens of dimensions that we haven't classified yet . By this I mean the first 4 dimensions Hieght ,width , Depth and time are all measurements as are gravity and other forces like pressure and then the more philosophical dimensions like change and growth.
Five dimensions is too limited.
  Now for the theory I really liked as with Mentalcase I find it Impossible to visualise or even comprehend absolute nothing.
  Perhaps life as we know it is more of a Universal consiousness working from a pin point of light , creating a physical world from the collective imaginations of everyone.


I love this stuff    biggrin.gif                                                


#19    Kismit

Kismit

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,680 posts
  • Joined:02 Nov 2001
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:New zealand

Posted 26 January 2003 - 09:43 AM

                                                Aww you guys ...........It took me so long to type that out  it took the edge off my resurection   dry.gif  biggrin.gif                                                


#20    Bizarro

Bizarro

    Psychic Spy

  • Closed
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,914 posts
  • Joined:28 Aug 2002
  • Location:USA

Posted 26 January 2003 - 04:24 PM

                                                im glad someone loves discussing these topics.  they bore the hell out of me.  i took a philosophy class on quantum mechanics once and i vowed to never speak of the subject again.  part of the reason was that i felt most of the people in that class were just a bunch of old windbags, HAHA!  wink.gif

personally, i believe its impossible for us to understand the nature of the universe and why we exist.  anything we choose to believe is truth is just an illusion that will be overturned by a future generation with the same confidence in its view as we have in ours.  all fools to me smile.gif                                                

if there was a meteor,
adrift amongst space,
set about on a collision course
not with Earth, but my face...
i wonder if id even know,
at what time i might,
be passed off like an old style
and by the meteor be smite?

- me, 1997

#21    j6p

j6p

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 535 posts
  • Joined:23 Jan 2003

Posted 26 January 2003 - 04:40 PM

                                                Hello Homer and Kismet, I recently got through with Hawkings "Universe in a Nut Shell", tell you the truth the only viable bit of useful information I gleaned from it was when he described how a virtual particle would react near the event horizon of a black hole. Actually it was well worth reading the entire book for just this one bit of info, I do like Hawkings he reminds me of Timothy Leary before he (Timothy) deep fried his brain.
Back to Hawkings: He explains how a virtual particle (VP) would pop into existence at the event horizon and before it could annihliate, half would be drawn into the black hole and half would escape. Stephen explains that this is how a black hole would appear to be radiating when we know that a black hole can't radiate. It's these VP's that have been turned into real particles that we detect. This is very cool because while Stephen was describing one phenomena I saw the explanation of another, how VP's can become real particles and that might be a link to how matter came to be from nothing ie. our Universe. Ok it's aspirin time here my brain hurts.                                                


#22    Homer

Homer

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,814 posts
  • Joined:16 Mar 2001
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 27 January 2003 - 04:58 AM

                                                That's a quick explanation of Hawkings Radiation. Since VP's always come in pairs, one positive(matter) and one negative(antimatter), it's the negative that gets pulled into a Black Hole. When it gets pulled into a Black Hole, it annihilates a particle of matter within, and that is how Black Holes can evaporate. That is also why there is far more matter than antimatter in the universe.

                                                

אַ֭תָּה אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׁעִ֑י

#23    j6p

j6p

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 535 posts
  • Joined:23 Jan 2003

Posted 29 January 2003 - 10:52 PM

                                                Homer, thanks for reminding me about what part of the VP went into the black hole, it's been a while since I read the book and I forgot how that worked. I have a renewed enthusiasm concerning energy/matter creation after giving this reaction, the way you've explained it,  more thought.
My main problem has been energy. Where does it come from? I am familiar with the conservation of energy law but that law leaves a void. I do believe that energy has been and is being created. What I mean is--it had to come from somewhere.
With that said I will say that there is and always was energy potential and that's what I've been looking into.                                                  


#24    Homer

Homer

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,814 posts
  • Joined:16 Mar 2001
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 30 January 2003 - 03:50 PM

                                                j6p,
Your questions on energy can never be answered with absolute certainty, in my opinion, because the beginning of everything can never be known for sure.

If you believe in the Big Bang as the beginning of all space, time and matter, then only potential energy existed, according the the laws of conservation.

But if you believe that the Big Bang was one of an infinite number of Big Bangs, where the universe expands and collapses for eternity, then kinetic energy would have existed before the most recent Big Bang.

There are other thoeries, obviously, but the question of where energy originated, and in what form, depends on the theory.                                                

אַ֭תָּה אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׁעִ֑י

#25    j6p

j6p

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 535 posts
  • Joined:23 Jan 2003

Posted 31 January 2003 - 12:34 AM

                                                It could be that the great thinkers of today are misreading a dynamic that is happening in front of their eyes, "big bangs" and "big crunches"....quasars and black holes.



                                                


#26    Homer

Homer

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,814 posts
  • Joined:16 Mar 2001
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 31 January 2003 - 02:49 AM

                                                You could be right. I think that even the great thinkers would admit they could be missing something, even something right in front of their eyes.

By the way, do you have any new ideas about the Big Bang, Big Crunch, Quasars or Black Holes?                                                

אַ֭תָּה אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׁעִ֑י

#27    j6p

j6p

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 535 posts
  • Joined:23 Jan 2003

Posted 31 January 2003 - 04:10 AM

                                                Hello Homer, I do have a few ideas that I'd like to kick around. I'll have to say that any thoughts I have about how the universe may have came into being are based on cutting edge science. I don't understand a lot of it, just enough that it allows me to form a working hypothesis. This is part of a poem that I use to give a brief explanation of where I'm at. I call it:  Ve=E, where V=vacuum, e=expansion and E=energy.


Ve=E:

I've been away on a journey far
no bus no train, plane or car
I traveled back to the dawn of time
used no machine, only my mind
The story I bring, the song I sing
has no brane no bang or string.
Out of nothing did it appear?
How could that happen? Lend an ear.
I'll tell you of vacuums, expanding sans
no radiation, bifurcation or master plans.
The normal order is entropy,
entropy is the order we see.

See ya tomorrow Homer, have a good night...j6p


                                                


#28    Homer

Homer

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,814 posts
  • Joined:16 Mar 2001
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 31 January 2003 - 03:12 PM

                                                Nice work on the poem smile.gif
But I fail to see how it all ties together. You said "Out of nothing did it appear?" Are you suggesting entropy is the result of Virtual Energy?, or am I misunderstanding you?

Quantum mechanics states anything infinitesimal(particles) cannot remain in our universe for long, and pops in and out of existence within the time that light requires to traverse its tiny sphere. So perhaps particles aren't created, as in VP, but are just changing state. From virtual particle to actual particle to virtual etc. etc. until it either gets annihilated with it's polar opposite, or combines with more particles to actually create something that lasts.

This would mean that there is an finite number of particles and virtual particles. When VP get annihilated, it turns into energy, thus changing state again. Meaning that ALL particles(including virtual particles), whether they have mass or not, and ALL energy, are finite and tied together to create balance.

Now entropy would suggest decaying, as if there is no balance. But just like old forests of this planet, it gets old, decays, perhaps burns down, and starts over again. So entropy could be nothing more than the recycling of the old to make way for the new. If this is the case, there would still be no creation of new particles or energy, but the existing ones changing state.

Just a thought                                                

Edited by Homer, 31 January 2003 - 03:40 PM.

אַ֭תָּה אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׁעִ֑י

#29    FreyKade

FreyKade

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,416 posts
  • Joined:31 Jan 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England

Posted 01 February 2003 - 02:22 AM

                                                ive had those thoughts scince i were twelve.......its the same with god, if  god created everything, how did god become to exist, did god have a mum, was he creathed from coliding bits of matter. if so where did the matter comefrom, or gods mum. and if he was created from nothing then pleaseexplain how youu can make something come from nothing......... blink.gif                                                

"isn't that intresting Dave, i mean every step you take down that chain, takes you one step further from your imagination"

i said
"you're right! youre a bit of a hippy, but you're right"
- Dave Gorman

"Wanna buy some pegs Dave?"
"I got some pegs belonging to you"
- Papa Lazarou

#30    FreyKade

FreyKade

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,416 posts
  • Joined:31 Jan 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England

Posted 01 February 2003 - 02:29 AM

                                                even hawking radiation/VR must be created some how. how can something just be "there!"                                                

"isn't that intresting Dave, i mean every step you take down that chain, takes you one step further from your imagination"

i said
"you're right! youre a bit of a hippy, but you're right"
- Dave Gorman

"Wanna buy some pegs Dave?"
"I got some pegs belonging to you"
- Papa Lazarou




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users