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Biggest Carnivorous Dino Finally Confirmed


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#16    frogfish

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 04:31 AM

Actually, paleontologist speculate that Deinocherius did grow up to 40 feet. Since it was an Orninthosaur, it ate small rodents and insects.

Actually, DC is right. Spinosaurus is longer than Giginatosaurus by 5 feet. Like Pilgrim said, Giginatosaurus is not a new discovery.

Another mistake you made Moose is about Acrocanthosaurus. Acro barely grew over 40, no where close to the size of Spinosaurus, or the larger Saurophaganax.

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#17    draconic chronicler

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 07:17 PM

Moose, as Frogfish stated your information is very outdated.  Though we only have the skull, the new spino can be reliably sized to around 60 feet, and that outclasses every other predatory dinosaur for the time being.  When proof of a bigger contender is actually found, I will acknowledge it.


#18    fantazum

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 08:44 PM

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This was one of the earliest debates on the paleontology forum, but since then a huge Spinosaur skull over six feet long was discovered which now proves this was the biggest Theropod dino yet discovered.  Ironically, the dino advisors believed this years ago when making Jurasic Park III.  Scaling up earlier fossils to the huge new skull, this new Spino is estimated at being 55 to 60 feet long.  All other contenders still hover around 45 feet as the largest so any more debate is pointless now.  Sorry Frogfish, guess I was right after all   grin2.gif


I am trying to imagine the sizes these creatures attained....its almost nightmarish and of course impossible.
Here's an extract from an  interesting BBC article . For the rest go to: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4031789.stm

The world's biggest and heaviest dinosaur is commonly said to be Argentinasaurus, a 37m-long (120ft), 80-100-tonne creature known from South America.

However, a 2.4m-long (8ft) fossil vertebra from a creature called Amphicoelias fragillimus was pulled out of the Morrison Formation of North America in 1877.

Based on the description of the bone made by its discoverer Edward Drinker Cope, the animal it belonged to would have been some 52m (170ft) in length.

However, the huge specimen has since disappeared, which makes this impossible to verify.

The vertebral bone described in the latest research paper was found by fossil hunter Gavin Leng. It was cleaned up by David Cooper, a volunteer at the Dinosaur Isle museum in Sandown, Isle of Wight.




#19    frogfish

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 08:20 PM

It could of been a subspecies of Argentinosaurus. Saurophaganax, possibly the worlds largest theropod is thought to be a rare subspecies of Allosaurus Fragilis.

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#20    draconic chronicler

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 12:01 AM

No frogfish, where do you get this stuff.  The new Spino is 60 feet, the bits of Saurophaganax aren't even close.

Technically, Sauropods may have been omnivores, and therefore "carnivorous" too.  Dinos are more closely related to birds than they are  mammals, and there are virtually no strictly vegetarian birds.  They are nearly all opportunistic omnivoresand will eat any small creature they can swallow.  Ducks for example, though mostly vegetarian, won't hesitiate to gulp down fish, frogs, insects, and even mice.  With their long necks, Sauropods may have actively hunted small animals they could swallow whole.

For example, if those were real Brachiosaurs in that silly scene in Jurassic Park of the kids petting their noses and the paleontologist reassuring them that the creatures were harmless........ well, the kids would have been very, very, surpised as they slid down those long throats to their doom, and the paleontologist would have received a good lesson in the fallacy of stereotyping dinosaurs as "vegetarians".


#21    frogfish

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 12:09 AM

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Technically, Sauropods may have been omnivores, and therefore "carnivorous" too. Dinos are more closely related to birds than they are mammals, and there are virtually no strictly vegetarian birds. They are nearly all opportunistic omnivoresand will eat any small creature they can swallow. Ducks for example, though mostly vegetarian, won't hesitiate to gulp down fish, frogs, insects, and even mice. With their long necks, Sauropods may have actively hunted small animals they could swallow whole.


I doubt it...they were slow moving beasts, with tiny brains, poor eyesight, and a mouth full of molars. Where did you get this?



Quote

No frogfish, where do you get this stuff. The new Spino is 60 feet, the bits of Saurophaganax aren't even close.

Actually, the estimate of the vertebra of Saurophaganax was that this dinosaur could reach lengths over 60 feet.

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#22    Pilgrim_Shadow

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 01:39 AM

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Technically, Sauropods may have been omnivores, and therefore "carnivorous" too.  Dinos are more closely related to birds than they are  mammals, and there are virtually no strictly vegetarian birds.  They are nearly all opportunistic omnivoresand will eat any small creature they can swallow.  Ducks for example, though mostly vegetarian, won't hesitiate to gulp down fish, frogs, insects, and even mice.  With their long necks, Sauropods may have actively hunted small animals they could swallow whole.


I think it would be wise to remember that while birds are considered dinosaurs, not all dinosaurs are birds. Specifically, sauropods bear little in relation to the coelurosaurs which are believed to be the ancestors of birds. Coelurosaurs were carnivores; sauropods were not. Coelurosaurs were bipedal; saurpods were not. Coelurosaurs are noted for their frail builds; sauropods most definately are not. Furthermore, the sauropod line became extinct at the end of the Mesozoic, and have no descendants.

The divisions between the theropod line and the sauropod line are deep and date to the very earliest age of the dinosaurs, the late Triassic. In fact, the only thing which they share in common is the shape of their pelvis (both are saurischians), and there is some debate in the palontological community as to whether or not the saurischian grouping is a valid one given the wide variations seen within it (quite unlike the ornithischians, which all possess certain universal traits).

In short, while it is not impossible for sauropods to have eaten small animals, the fact that birds are omnivorous should not be taken as evidence that they might have been, as well. Sauropods are very distantly related to birds if related at all, and may not share anything in common with them.

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#23    frogfish

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 10:09 PM

yes.gif

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#24    Moose-Of-Armageddon

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 02:02 PM

These are artist renders of Spino and Saurophaganax......

user posted image
user posted image

And here's a archaeologists and palaeontologists size refernce for Saurophaganax

user posted image

Is it just me, or do I doubt that thing would grow more than 60 feet in length normally?

And when I was talking about Gigantosaurus, again, I was judging by SIZE, not length. Gigantosaurus is much bulkier than Spinosaurus.

And with the Acrocanthosaurus, maybe I screwed up. But blame the books, I picked up this knowledge from an expert book I have. Then again, it is also an expert book from from 1994, so, meh.

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#25    frogfish

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 07:28 PM

Saurophaganax is known from a single vertebrae that is almost 3 feet long...Certainly it can grow over 60...

Nice Todd Marshall drawings, I love his artwork (my avatar and background for my Signature)

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#26    draconic chronicler

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 01:57 AM

Pilgrim,
Fact of the matter is there are virtually no strictly vegetarian archosaurs, or stricly vegetarian reptiles save for possibly some tortoises and the marine iguana.

Unless a person saw a duck swallow a mouse, they would assume it was a herbivore, and yes the bulk of their food is vegetable, but there are exceptions.  

Many Sauropods have simple peglike teeth which cannot chew vegetation, which instead is swallowed whole.  Despite their large size, it is possible their heads/necks could be moved rapidly to snatch small prey.  

There is cdocumented evidence that even such obvious mammalian herbivores sometimes become carnivorous.

Therefore to dismiss this trait in archosaurs/dinosaurs if foolish indeed, and I believe it is highly probable that they did, because virtually all living archosaurs do.


#27    Pilgrim_Shadow

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 11:44 AM

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Pilgrim,
Fact of the matter is there are virtually no strictly vegetarian archosaurs, or stricly vegetarian reptiles save for possibly some tortoises and the marine iguana.

Unless a person saw a duck swallow a mouse, they would assume it was a herbivore, and yes the bulk of their food is vegetable, but there are exceptions.  

Many Sauropods have simple peglike teeth which cannot chew vegetation, which instead is swallowed whole.  Despite their large size, it is possible their heads/necks could be moved rapidly to snatch small prey.  

There is cdocumented evidence that even such obvious mammalian herbivores sometimes become carnivorous.

Therefore to dismiss this trait in archosaurs/dinosaurs if foolish indeed, and I believe it is highly probable that they did, because virtually all living archosaurs do.


I did not say that the idea should be dismissed, as we do not yet know enough to say with certainty that they did not prey on small animals. What I said was that sauropods have no living descendants, having belonged to a line of animals which went completely extinct, and that the fact that modern archosaurs are not entirely herbivorous should not be taken as evidence that they were not, as well. Their closest living reletives are crocodiles, and they are carnivorous. Birds are descended from a line entirely seperate from the sauropods, and their habits tell us nothing about non-theropod dinosaurus.

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#28    frogfish

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 08:51 PM

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because virtually all living archosaurs do

Many, many birds do not eat more than seeds, fruits, and insects.

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#29    draconic chronicler

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 10:57 PM

Insects denote predation, and little birds eat insects.  A much bigger omnivore would probably eat larger prey, but still relatively small animals they could swallow whole, just as the largely herbivorous ducks turkey, ostriches, emus, etc. etc.


#30    frogfish

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 09:54 PM

Thing is, small prey would live on the ground, and to catch them, their necks would need to move at high speeds. This would cause serious damage to the necks of sauropods, not to mention dizziness tongue.gif

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