[AztecInca]

Debate Topic: Piaget, is his theory of development a universal theory or narrow minded?

JohnnyBoyC will be debating that Piaget's theory is a 'universal' theory while Kryso will be debating that Piaget's theory is narrow minded and definately not a 'universal' theory.

This will be a 1v1 formal debate.
An Introduction, 5 bodily posts and a conclusion from each participant. No Flaming, bad manners or profantities will be tolerated.

There is a point deduction for debaters who fail to make a post within the 7 day time frame. The deductions will be 2 points for every day the participant fails to post after the 7 days.

This is to ensure that debates continue in a timely fashion. If for any reason you cannot post within the 7 days, please ensure that you let myself, Lottie or Tiddlyjen know to avoid having the points taken off your debate.

If, however the participant does not then attempt to make a post for up to 2 weeks after the 7 day rule has started an immediate disqualification will occur.

Good luck!

Aztec.

This post has been edited by AztecInca: 14 May 2006 - 02:48 AM

[Kryso]

Firstly, thank you AztecInca, and to Lottie and Tiddlyjen, for all your work and effort you have put into this new Debate section.

And good luck to JohnnyBoyC, and I look forward to debating this topic with you.

My Introduction.

I will be debating that the Piaget theory has no bases or grounds. That it is an idea fabricated by a single person (Jean Piaget) and his work in the field (of over 60 years), nothing more. That it is not a universal theory, and is in fact narrow minded to the extreme that people are basing their understanding of the growing mind on one mans beliefs (which as we know can be very damaging).

Jean Piaget child development theories research stems from his knowledge of biology and philosophy, and I will also be using these very subjects to debunk his ideas!

Piaget calls his general idea “Genetic Epistemology”. This is the very thing I will show to be untrue.

Piaget also bases a lot of his research and argument on cognitive, intelligence and moral development in the growing mind of a child. I will be looking at these in my next posts, and showing the errors to his theories.

Over to you JohnnyBoyC, and good luck.

Edited to change name...

This post has been edited by Kryso: 12 April 2006 - 03:55 PM

[JohnnyBoyC]

Hello everone, I will be debating against Kryso that Piaget's theory is universal, plausible, and possibly even purly factual. Basically, Piagets Theory, for those of you that do not know, is a theory that explains how a child learns and creates "mental maps". Piaget's Theory explains so much, it explains how a child goes from no skills, or abilities, completly confused, and develops into a problem-solving adult that can handle complet mental procedures. I will be explaining how the Process progresses, why it is a well-based, and enlightening theory.

Back to Kryso

[AztecInca]

Kryso, we are awaiting your reply!

[Kryso]

Post 1

So, basically what is the Piaget Theory?

A little background:

Jean Piaget was a Swiss psychologist and biologist who was born in 1896 and died in 1980. He is renowned for his constructing an influential model of child development and learning. He wrote more than 60 books and several hundred articles.

Piaget’s theory is based on the idea that a growing child’s mind builds cognitive structures (mental maps, or networked -) concepts for understanding and responding to physical experiences within the child’s environment. Piaget also says that the child’s ‘mental maps’ increases in sophistication along with the child’s development, moving from innate reflexes such as sucking and crying to higher complex mental activities.

Key Concepts of Piaget’s Theory of Development

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The Sensorimotor Period (birth to 2 years)
During this time, Piaget said that a child's cognitive system is limited to motor reflexes at birth, but the child builds on these reflexes to develop more sophisticated procedures. They learn to generalize their activities to a wider range of situations and coordinate them into increasingly lengthy chains of behaviour.

PreOperational Thought (2 to 6 or 7 years)
At this age, according to Piaget, children acquire representational skills in the areas mental imagery, and especially language. They are very self-oriented, and have an egocentric view; that is, preoperational children can use these representational skills only to view the world from their own perspective.

Concrete Operations (6/7 to 11/12)
As opposed to Preoperational children, children in the concrete operations stage are able to take another's point of view and take into account more than one perspective simultaneously. They can also represent transformations as well as static situations. Although they can understand concrete problems, Piaget would argue that they cannot yet perform on abstract problems, and that they do not consider all of the logically possible outcomes.

Formal Operations (11/12 to adult)
Children who attain the formal operation stage are capable of thinking logically and abstractly. They can also reason theoretically. Piaget considered this the ultimate stage of development, and stated that although the children would still have to revise their knowledge base, their way of thinking was as powerful as it would get.

Link

Piaget penned this theory of childhood cognitive development in 1969. Since then there has been much criticism. Mostly from developmental psychologists arguing whether children actually go through these different stages. And that not all children reach the formal operation stage!

Also a lot of Piaget researched stems from Psychologist background. When in fact he wasn’t even a child psychologist!

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Was Piaget a Psychologist?

Well, yes and no. There is a difference between a child psychologist and a developmental psychologist. In essence, a child psychologist is just like any other psychologist, but plies his her or skills with people who are not adults. Otherwise, there's not much to chose between child psychologists and any other sort. Piaget was not a child psychologist.

Link

And the base of Piaget research was conducted over 37 years ago. And even though the majority of his research has to do with development of a child, it also took the background and surroundings of the child into account. And the world has vastly changed over the last 37 years. Some of his fundamental research could still stand, but the world has changed so much that obviously the research would have to move with the times. In fact the same Key Concepts of Piaget’s Theory of Development still stand today, unaltered.

This brings to mind Dr. Spock's book Baby and Child Care which was published in 1946, just in time for the post-World War II baby boom, and became a widely-accepted "bible" on child rearing.

Dr Spock’s book has now been ridiculed and shown to be wrong on many levels.

Quote

Dr Spock's advice that a child should be left to cry could cause psychological damage.

Link

Undoubtedly, he got it wrong. Loving discipline enables a child to grow to be self-disciplined when adult.
Philip C.Sherlock, Wisconsin, USA

Likewise with Dr Spock, Piaget’s theory will soon start to come unravelled because of the changing world around us, and the theories set out in 1969 no longer hold water in 2006.

I will continue to look closer at each of the Key Concepts in my next post.

Over to you JohnnyBoyC

[AztecInca]

JohnnyBoyC has been granted an extension and will be posting within a day or two of the 24th.

[JohnnyBoyC]

Sorry for the delay. Immediatly following Spring Break I was swamped with homework and a nasty Social Studies test about Southeast Asia. Luckily I passed it with flying colors.

And, just so you know, I am not suffering from ADD and going off subject, this has to do with Piaget's Theory.

I am 13. In Piaget's ingenious Theory of Mental Development, I fit in the last stage of development, 12-Adult, in which the human being can now make formal operations and can think Logically and Abstractly. This is the highest stage of development and thinking power is as high as it can be, however it can be expanded through the two processes of mental development, Equilibration, and Accommodation. Equilibration is how the mind changes incoming information to fit mental "Maps" therefore associating the information with past information to make it easier to understand. Accommodation is actually formatting the "Maps" to fit incoming information. According to Piaget's Theory, I passed that test, because while I was studying, my brain was going through EEquilibrationand Accommodation. My brain was formatting the information to fit into new spaces on the mental maps in my head. I didn't know that Jakarta was the capital of Indonesia, so when my brain learned this information, it created a spot in my mental map of Southeast Asia, to accomodate the information, and
allow me to memorize it. By repeating the information "Capital of Indonesia is Jakarta" my brain decided that it was important, so it fit it in to a spot in a mental map. This may seem complex, and it is. That is because I am thinking, as I am typing this, HOW, I learn. Which is a very abstract thought. And now, I am thinking about thinking about abstract information. And my brain isn't strained, because I have expanded my mental maps to accomodate confusing and abstract information.

The information Jakarta is the Capital of Indonesia, is now permanently stored into my Knowledge Base. And I won't forget it, unless my brain finally decides, after many years of not needing to know the information, that the information is useless, and I will forget it.

But, because I am in the "Ultimate Stage Of Mental Development" is the only reason that I can do that. Trying to teach an infant this, is useless, because an infant cannot store information, conceptualize, and format mental maps to learn outside information and retain it, unless the information is extremely important, such as walking or eating.

That concludes my main body post, back to Kryso, and sorry for the delay!

This post has been edited by JohnnyBoyC: 26 April 2006 - 10:09 PM

[Kryso]

2nd Main Post

Quote

I am 13. In Piaget's ingenious Theory of Mental Development, I fit in the last stage of development, 12-Adult, in which the human being can now make formal operations and can think Logically and Abstractly.

I will address your statements as I work through the 4 stages. So as not to perplex the readers. I will return to your statement in my last main body post, when I deal with Formal Operations (11/12 to adult). Please bear with me…and I will go much deeper into your first main body post and show the flaws to your logic based on Piaget’s Theory.

For my second main body post I would like to look more closely at the first stage -

Quote

The Sensorimotor Period (birth to 2 years)
During this time, Piaget said that a child's cognitive system is limited to motor reflexes at birth, but the child builds on these reflexes to develop more sophisticated procedures. They learn to generalize their activities to a wider range of situations and coordinate them into increasingly lengthy chains of behaviour.

Here is a lengthier article about the first stage…

Quote

SENSORIMOTOR PERIOD
The sensorimotor period prevails from birth to two years of age and is divided into six substages. It is characterised by the absence of language and internal representation according to Le Francois (2000). The construction of knowledge begins with the childs ability to perform actions on the world through their senses and reflexes. As time passes, these actions become more deliberate, coordinated and planned. They become purposeful movements. This means that the child’s intelligence and knowledge about the world are limited to the actions they perform on their environment. They learn to solve reasonably complex problems without the help of mental representation. Over this stage there is a shift from the sensorimotor thinking base discussed above to representational thinking.

Link

Each child is unique, an individual like no other (apart from twins). Each child grows depending on many factors – environment, parenting and heath, just to name a few. A child growing up in the English countryside, or American large metropolitan city, such as New York, is bound to have different actions to situations than a child growing up in the Serengeti, Africa.

Why would I mention this?

Because Piaget accumulated his research from those around him, on his same level of living and lifestyle. In fact the large majority of his research was based upon his own three children –Jacqueline, Lucienne, and Laurent.

Quote

In 1923, Piaget and Valentine Châtenay were married. They had three children together: Jacqueline, Lucienne, and Laurent, whose intellectual development from infancy to language was studied by Piaget.

Link

Jean Piaget was born just before the turn of the century in Neuchâtel, Switzerland in 1896 and died in Geneva in 1980. So how can he possibly sum up the whole development theory of a childs development without a wider range of subjects? And as I have already stated a lot has changed in 110 years!

I am not a parent, but I have 14 nieces and nephews and have seen them grow up into adults. And each of them is individuals who all developed at different rates. I would not treat 11 of them in a certain way just because that’s how the first 3 reacted to different situations as babies. And yet millions of children worldwide are being taught by certain standards because one man studied his 3 children and decided that’s how everyone else will develop and grow. Does sound silly when its put basically, doesn’t it.

In my next post I will look more closely at stage two of his unreliable theory.

Back to you JohnnyBoyC

Edited for spellings...

This post has been edited by Kryso: 30 April 2006 - 02:04 PM

[AztecInca]

JohnnyBoyC your reply please!

[JohnnyBoyC]

Im working on it. Can you give me another day? Im sorry, but finals are coming up and i have tons of homework...

[AztecInca]

JohnnyBoyC you have been given an additional 6 days, if you do not post within 24 hours or let Tiddlyjen or myself know why you cannot still post, point deduction will have to be imposed.

[AztecInca]

JohhnyBoyC even after the numerous extensions we have given you, you still have yet to post. It is unfair not only to the debate organisers but your opponent. It is obvious that with the level of school-work you have you are not capable of commiting to a debate and we require a high level of commitment for these debates.

JohhnyBoyC I`m afraid we have to disqualify you. Kryso wins by default.

This post has been edited by AztecInca: 14 May 2006 - 02:47 AM