[Bella-Angelique]

Nice pics. Very pretty. I see the Nazca drawings there too.

[Pax Unum]

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These are the "Ica stones" which was found on a cave in Peru.
in the 5ht picture you will see a human and a dinosaur.

Ica stones are a collection of andesite stones alleged to include ancient depictions of dinosaurs and advanced technology. The Ica stones were popularized by Dr. Javier Cabrera, a Peruvian medical doctor who received an engraved stone as a birthday gift.

Cabrera identified the engraving as a stylized depiction of an "extinct fish" that had, to the best of anyone's knowledge, gone extinct millions of years before (Note that the fish is really not identifiable with a particular kind, extinct or not).

The discovery caught the attention of Carlos and Pablo Soldi, two collectors of artifacts who had failed to interest the archaeological community with their findings, but found an interested party in Cabrera. They sold him 341 similar stones. Cabrera soon found another supplier, named Basilio Uschuya.

From these and other sources over the next thirty-five years, he would collect over 15,000 engraved stones.

Allegedly, these stones were found in caves and stream beds. Because they are rocks and contain no organic material, Carbon-14 dating cannot be used. Because these locations have not been disclosed, it is impossible to judge with certainty their age based on the geological stratum. Further, finding that the rocks are themselves significantly old would not prove the engravings themselves are.

Neil Steede, an archaeologist who was investigating the Ica stones for The Mysterious Origins of Man (a film attempting to make the case humans existed far earlier than previously thought), found no patina on the engravings although the rocks had patina on them, suggesting that the engravings are indeed younger than the rocks.

In 1977, during the BBC documentary Pathway to the Gods there was an interview of Basilio Uschuya, who produced a "genuine" Ica stone with a dentist's drill and claimed to produce the patina by baking a stone in cow dung. This was for a period of time overlooked. However, in 1996, another BBC documentary was released with a skeptical analysis of the stones.

The newfound attention to the phenomenon prompted the authorities of Peru to arrest Basilio Uschuya. Under Peruvian law, it is illegal to sell archaeological discoveries. Basilio recanted that he had found them and instead claimed that they were hoaxes he and his wife created.

He was not punished, and continued to sell the stones to tourists as trinkets. He confirmed that he had forged them during an interview with Erich von Däniken, but recanted that claim during a later interview with a German journalist...

Ica stones

[frogfish]

Carbon dating is accurate for only a few 10 thousand years... Stronium is much better suited for dating that far back...

[frogfish]

The "map" cpuld of just have been stromatolites or graptolite burrows...

[ShaunZero]

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This flat-out contradicts everything we know about human evolution and human civilization.

So? That doesn't automaticaly make it fake. What if it turned out to be real and true? We'd say it's fake because it contradicts everything we know(think we know actualy) about human evolution and human civilization? That would be severely limiting our knowledge and wouldn't leave room for change if new knowledge is ever aquired.

This post has been edited by ZeroShadow: 06 April 2006 - 08:56 PM

[ShaunZero]

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With so many artifacts unearthed that seem to defy appropriate time placement, one wonders if our dating system in inheritely flawed due to factors we do not consider or a huge misconception on history as we know it. Either way I find this very interesting

Either that (wich would be interesting because that means history would be changed forever) or all of them are fake or misunderstood.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

I have continued to try and find out more about this "Map" but I've failed. Four years ago the UFO, alternative history and conspiracy theory sites were full of this story, but all of them refered back to the original Pravda story (except one fundamentalist Christian site which claims that this stone proves the biblical version of the creation. If I fully understand the logic it goes like this: the map can't be 120 million years old. This proves the dating is wrong. This shows that scientific dating methods can't be trusted. This shows that the Bible must be correct ???).

I find it interesting that the subject just died. No one seems to have referenced it for 4 years (until this thread).

Incidentally here is an earlier thread on this site started by PurpleStuart on 10th May 2002.

---------------------------------

ps I don't think the creator of the spell checker this site use was a UFO believer. It didn't accept UFO and offered Ugh as an alternative.

[Bigfoot_Is_Real]

well here are two things thatquestion this 1 the pictures show modern day accuracy not 12 million year ago accuracy 2. it doesn't say which layer of rock it was found in the Trassic or Present day also if these prople were as advanced as they say they are why did they use stone to make a map

[Pilgrim_Shadow]

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Lemurians yes where between india, africa and australia.

They found old objects around 500 000 years . and that they found ruins and dated it.

no one knows really how long the lemurian lived but what the expert sienctist says that so far they think lemurians existed from 800 000 - 450 000 years.

sientist tells the lemurian and the atlantis people somehow was connected but no ones knows so far yet of atlantis dating.

cant tell more about lemurians.

With all due respect, I think that if you read my post you will find that this is not true. Lemuria never existed. There was never any evidence that it existed; it was pure speculation. There is considerable evidence at present that it never existed at all. If necessary I can provide sources.

No ruins, to my knowledge, have been dated anywhere near the age you describe. The oldest known civilizations date to only a few thousand years before present. If you have any evidence to the contrary, I would very much like to see it.

Quote

So? That doesn't automaticaly make it fake. What if it turned out to be real and true? We'd say it's fake because it contradicts everything we know(think we know actualy) about human evolution and human civilization? That would be severely limiting our knowledge and wouldn't leave room for change if new knowledge is ever aquired.

I think, perhaps, you should re-read my post. I fully acknowledged that it was POSSIBLE that our knowledge is in error. However, I still maintain that it is not PROBABLE. Without significant evidence (or, indeed, any evidence) to back this up, we can only assume that it is not the case.

-Pilgrim

[invader zim believer]

ChupaCabra_researcher on Apr 5 2006, 09:37 PM, said:

oh, i forgot to put a picture of the ancient map!



it says that these people/civilization had sum good technologically advanced stuff.

i found these on http://www.rense.com/general24/civ.htm

It looks like something you made out of clay.. or moon sand (moon sand is the stuff you see on tv that is like clay)

[Pawna]

ChupaCabra_researcher on Apr 5 2006, 09:10 PM, said:

120 Million Year Old Map Found - Proof Of Ancient Civilization

The Map Of 'The Creator'

A discovery by Bashkir scientists contradicts all traditional notions of human history: stone slabs which are 120 million years old and covered with the relief map of the Ural Region.

This seems to be impossible. Scientists of Bashkir State University have found indisputable proofs of an ancient highly developed civilization's existence. The question is about a great plate found in 1999, with picture of the region done according to an unknown technology. This is a real relief map. Today's military has almost similar maps. The map contains civil engineering works: a system of channels with a length of about 12,000 km, weirs, powerful dams. Not far from the channels, diamond-shaped grounds are shown, whose destination is unknown. The map also contains some inscriptions. Even numerous inscriptions. At first, the scientists thought that was Old Chinese language. Though, it turned out that the subscriptions were done in a hieroglyphic-syllabic language of unknown origin. The scientists never managed to read it

"The more I learn the more I understand that I know nothing," - the doctor of physical and mathematical science, professor of Bashkir State University, Alexandr Chuvyrov admits. Namely Chuvyrov made that sensational find. Already in 1995, the professor and his post-graduate student from China Huan Hun decided to study the hypothesis of possible migration of Old Chinese population to the territory of Siberia and Ural. In an expedition to Bashkiria, they found several rock carvings done in Old Chinese language. These finds confirmed the hypothesis of Chinese migrants. The subscriptions were read. They mostly contained information about trade bargains, marriage and death registration.


Though, during the searches, notes dated the 18th century were found in archives of Ufa governor-general. They reported about 200 unusual stone stabs which were situated not far from the Chandar village, Nurimanov Region. Chuvyrov and his colleague at once decided that stabs could be connected with Chinese migrants. Archive notes also reported that in 17th-18th centuries, expeditions of Russian scientists who investigated Ural Region had studied 200 white stabs with signs and patterns, while in early 20th century, archaeologist A.Schmidt also had seen some white stabs in Bashkiria. This made the scientist start the search. In 1998, after having formed a team of his students, Chuvyrov launched the work. He hired a helicopter, and the first expedition carried a flying around of the places where the stabs were supposed to be. Though, despite all efforts, the ancient stabs were not found. Chuvyrov was very upset and even thought the stabs were just a beautiful legend.

The luck was unexpected. During one of Chuvyrov's trips to the village, ex-chairman of the local agricultural council, Vladimir Krainov, came to him (apropos, in the house of Krainov's father, archaelogist Schmidt once staid) and said: "Are you searching for some stone stabs? I have a strange stab in my yard." "At first, I did not took that report seriously, - Chuvyrov told. - Though, I decided to go to that yard to see it. I remember this day exactly: July 21, 1999. Under the porch of the house, the stab with some dents lied. The stab was so heavy that we together could not take it out. So I went to the city of Ufa, to ask for help."

In a week, work was launched in Chandar. After having dug out the stab, the searches were stroke with its size: it was 148 cm high, 106 cm wide and 16 cm thick. While it weighed at least one ton. The master of the house made special wooden rollers, so the stab was rolled out from the hole. The find was called "Dashka's stone" (in honour of Alexandr Chuvyrov's granddaughter born the day before it) and transported to the university for investigation. After the stab was cleaned of earth, the scientists could not entrust to their eyes... "At first sight, - Chuvyrov sais, - I understood that was not a simple stone piece, but a real map, and not a simple map, but a three-dimensional. You can see it yourself."

"How did we manage to identify the place? At first, we could not imagine the map was so ancient. Happily, relief of today's Bashkiria has not changed so much within millions of years. We could identify Ufa Height, while Ufa Canyon is the main point of our proofs, because we carried out geological studies and found its track where it must be according to the ancient map. Displacement of the canyon happened because of tectonic stabs which moved from East. The group of Russian and Chinese specialists in the field of cartography, physics, mathematics, geology, chemistry, and Old Chinese language managed to precisely find out that the stab contains the map of Ural region, with rivers Belya, Ufimka, Sutolka," - Alexandr Chuvyrov said while showing the lines on the stone to the journalists. - You can see Ufa Canyon - the break of the earth's crust, stretched out from the city of Ufa to the city of Sterlitimak. At the moment, Urshak River runs over the former canyon." The map is done on a scale 1 : 1.1 km.

Alexandr Chuvyrov, being physicist, has got into the habit of entrusting only to results of investigation. While today there are such facts.

Geological structure of the stab was determined: it cosists of three levels. The base is 14 cm chick, made of the firmest dolomite. The second level is probably the most interesting, "made" of diopside glas. The technology of its treatement is not known to modern science. Actually, the picture is marked on this level. While the third level is 2 mm thick and made of calcium porcelain protecting the map from external impact.

"It should be noticed, - the professor said, - that the relief has not been manually made by an ancient stonecutter. It is simply impossible. It is obvious that the stone was machined." X-ray photographs confirmed that the stab was of artificial origin and has been made with some precision tools.

At first, the scientists supposed that the ancient map could have been made by the ancient Chinese, because of vertical inscriptions on the map. As well known, vertical literature was used in Old Chinese language before 3rd century. To check his supposition, professor Chuvyrov visited Chinese empire library. Within 40 minutes he could spend in the library according to the permission he looked through several rare books, though no one of them contained literature similar to that one on the stab. After the meeting with his colleagues from Hunan university, he completely gave up the version about "Chinese track." The scientist concluded that porcelain covering the stab had never been used in China. Although all the efforts to decipher the inscriptions were fruitless, it was found out that the literature had hieroglyphic-syllabic character. Chuvyrov, however, states he has deciphered one sign on the map: it signifies latitude of today's city of Ufa.

The longer the stab was studied, the more mysteries appeared. On the map, a giant irrigative system could be seen: in addition to the rivers, there are two 500-metre-wide channel systems, 12 dams, 300-500 metres wide, approximately 10 km long and 3 km deep each. The dams most likely helped in turning water in either side, while to create them over 1 quadrillion cubic metres of earth was shifted. In comparison with that irrigative system, Volga-Don Channel looks like a scratch on the today's relief. As a physicist, Alexandr Chuvyrov supposes that now mankind can build only a small part of what is pictured on the map. According to the map, initially, Belaya River had an artificial river-bad.


It was difficult to determine even an approximate age of the stab. At first, radiocarbonic analysis was carried out, afterwards levels of stab were scanned with uranium chronometer, though the investigations showed different results and the age of the stab remained unclear. While examining the stone, two shells were found on its surface. The age of one of them - Navicopsina munitus of Gyrodeidae family - is about 500 million years, while of the second one - Ecculiomphalus princeps of Ecculiomphalinae subfamily - is about 120 million years. Namely that age was accepted as a "working version." "The map was probably created at the time when the Earth's magnetic pole situated in the today's area of Franz Josef Land, while this was exactly 120 million years ago, - professor Chuvyrov says. - The map we have is beyond of traditional perception of mankind and we need a long time to get used to it. We have got used to our miracle. At first we thought that the stone was about 3,000 years. Though, that age was gradually growing, till we identified the shells ingrained in the stone to sign some objects. Though, who could guarantee that the shell was alive while being ingrained in the map? The map's creator probably used a petrified find."

What could be the destination of the map? That is probably the most interesting thing. Materials of the Bashkir find were already investigated in Centre of Historical Cartography in Visconsin, USA. The Americans were amazed. According to them, such three-dimensional map could have only one destination - a navigational one, while it could be worked out only through aerospace survey. Moreover, namely now in the US, work is being carried out at creation of world three-dimensional map like that. Though, the Americans intend to complete the work only to 2010. The question is that while compiling such three-dimensional map, it is necessary to work over too many figures. "Try to map at least a mountain! - Chuvyrov says. - The technology of compiling such maps demands super-power computers and aerospace survey from the Shuttle." So, who then did created this map? Chuvyrov, while speaking about the unknown cartographers, is wary: "I do not like talks about some UFO and extraterrestrial. Let us call the author of the map simply - the creator."

It looks like that who lived and built at that time used only air transport means: there is no ways on the map. Or they, probably, used water ways. There is also an opinion, that the authors of the ancient map did not live there at all, but only prepared that place for settlement through draining the land. This seems to be the most probable version, though nothing could be stated for the time being. Why not to assume that the authors belonged to a civilization which existed earlier?

Latest investigations of the map bring one sensation after another. Now, the scientists are sure of the map being only a fragment of a big map of the Earth. According to some hypothesis, there were totally 348 fragments like that. The other fragments could be probably somewhere near there. In outskirts of Chandar, the scientists took over 400 samples of soil and found out that the whole map had been most likely situated in the gorge of Sokolinaya Mountain (Falcon Mountain). Though, during the glacial epoch it was tore to pieces. But if the scientists manage to gather the "mosaic," the map should have an approximate seize of 340 x 340 m. After having studied the archive materials, Chuvyrov ascertained approximate place where four pieces could be situated: one could lie under one house in Chandar, the other - under the house of merchant Khasanov, the third - under one of the village baths, the fourth - under the bridge's pier of the local narrow-gauge railway.

In the meanwhile, Bashkir scientists send out information about their find to different scientific centres of the world; in several international congresses, they have already given reports on the subject: The Civil Engineering Works Map of an Unknown Civilization of South Ural."

The find of Bashkir scientists has no analogues. With only one exclusion. When the research was at its height, a small stone - chalcedony - got to professor Chuvyrov's table, containing a similar relief. Probably somebody, who saw the stab wanted to copy the relief. Though, who and why?

Hey

I did a quick scan of Bashkir State University, and I found no reference to Alexandr Chuvyrov. Could be he is on there, but why should I waste my time on this b******s? http://www.bashedu.ru/ Knock yourself out if you have an hour to spare....

Pawna

[aquatus1]

Pawna on Dec 9 2007, 03:41 AM, said:

Hey

I did a quick scan of Bashkir State University, and I found no reference to Alexandr Chuvyrov. Could be he is on there, but why should I waste my time on this b******s? http://www.bashedu.ru/ Knock yourself out if you have an hour to spare....

Pawna

Why indeed? Particularly when the last time this thread was alive was about a year and a half ago.

[Pawna]

aquatus1 on Dec 9 2007, 03:47 AM, said:

Why indeed? Particularly when the last time this thread was alive was about a year and a half ago.

oh yeah.... didnt twig that.

[Ozi]

Pilgrim_Shadow on Apr 5 2006, 10:32 PM, said:

120 million years before present would put this map in the Cretaceous period. This flat-out contradicts everything we know about human evolution and human civilization. We have found no evidence of any mammals of significant size or development at that time. Monkeys would not develop for more than 70 million years, to say nothing of apes. To put this in perspective, if this map is accurate, then it is more than 200 times older than all of recorded human existance.

The possibility that the map was created by aliens exists, but the map was made with materials found on the earth, and no alien artifacts have been discovered, so the hypothesis is pure speculation.

Obviously, we cannot dismiss the possibility that our understanding of the earth is in error, however laughable it may seem. However, a date like that is more than a little suscpicious.

As I see it, there are four possibilities:

1. Everything we know about the earth is wrong. (unlikely)
2. The map is real but incorrectly dated.
3. The map is a hoax.
4. The existance of the slab itself is a hoax.

I think we should begin with point #4, as it seems the easiest to prove or disprove. What is the provenance of the article? It is taken from the Pravda website, but no author is credited, nor are there any links for additional information. Pravda is a respected Russian news agency, but this tells us nothing about the veracity of the story, as newspapers are taken in by hoaxes all the time. So, what we have, essentially, is a story by a Russian online newspaper that may or may not be true, about a map that may or may not be real, and which may or may not be correctly dated.

Until more information becomes availible, I do not think we can say that this map is genuine.

-Pilgrim

So it shatters the your belief in the evolutionary time line, so what... Evolution is only a theory and not established fact... Its a false notion and has no scientific credibility.

[aquatus1]

Ozi on Dec 9 2007, 02:44 PM, said:

So it shatters the your belief in the evolutionary time line, so what... Evolution is only a theory and not established fact... Its a false notion and has no scientific credibility.

Nonsense for a variety of reasons that are being discussed in many other threads that are not from over a year ago.