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Astronauts gone wild !


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#151    magnetar

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 07:36 PM

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electronics in space must be radiation hardened due to material degradation and eventual destruction, I suspect that some form of deflection shields, magnetic or otherwise, were used, and likely still are being used.  


Semiconductor radiation sensitivity depends, in part, on material density. Were they "bulky" enough to be hardened sufficiently for Apollo???


#152    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 07:42 PM

Don't forget that the radiation hardened electonics required for modern satellites are designed to last for years if not decades. A communications satellite in geosynchronous orbit for 12 years is going to take a battering from solar flares and cosmic rays.

The electronics on Apollo only had to survive for a few days.

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#153    RabidCat

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 08:16 PM

"Hardening" consists of several items, none of which has to do with the size of the IC.  Resistance to radiation is greater in field effect devices than in bipolar devices, so the usage of the time, and today, is with FETs.  Field effect silicon on sapphire was a technology available for space program machines then, as now, with quite high data rates.  The devices are also quite resistant to spacial radiation forms.
Semiconductor density, to clarify a point, is dependent upon the technology used.  The inherent component density of field effect is substantially greater than bipolar, due to the different voltage requirements: essentially, the greater the operating voltage of an integrated circuit, the lower the component density.  Within field effect devices, the pinch-off can be much lower, especially with laser trimmed circuits, since real estate usage can be held to a minimum.  This is why, if one looks at circuit voltage requirements, far higher densities are available now than 30 years ago.  In circuitry, less real estate = shorter runs = lower capacitance = lower power requirements = higher speeds.  The data is available at the website of nearly any integrated circuit manufacturer.
The electronics I've worked on, from then till 2002, were and are, satellite forms, many of which I cannot discuss.  However, at the beginning, there were satellites that stayed in orbit for long periods, some having been replaced only recently (in the last 20 years).  Consequently, the reliability of the electronics within was, of necessity, quite high, and degradation held to a minimum.
Contrary to popular belief, it seems, COSMOS devices have been around for nearly 40 years, although not for general consumption.


#154    MID

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 10:07 PM

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Diminished requirements?  Are you angling for argument?  Current concepts seem to indicate that we older folk are incapable of understanding or dealing with current technology and such (people seem to forget that that technology had to come from somewhere, and that honor rests with those same older folk that "can't understand it").  A bit ironic, isn't it?  That the notion that those who developed the technology don't understand it?  Frankly, I'm puzzled.



No, no, no....no argument.  I think you're either mistaken about what I said...or...I didn't say it very well  (which is distinctly possible crying.gif ).
I was speaking to the younger generations being sucked into the the hoax beliefs, and postulate that part of the reason for this is the diminished secondary school requirements (which are evident in my area).   Such reduced requirements may be contributory to the apparent lack of reasoning skills, the lack of impetus I detect in this group (in general) to do any particular research on their own, etc....thus contributing to their ability to accept completely unsubstantiated jibberish (in many cases) as fact.

For instance, I know in my neck of the woods, when I was in high school, the requirements were 4 years of English, Humanities, Science, and Mathematics.  Today, the first two remain the same, but Science and Mathematics have been halved...to 2 credits each.  

I find that sad, as well as amazing.   I had 6 credits of Sciences and Mathematics by the time I graduated high school.     And, I find so many young people who can navigate their way through a computer like a wizard, but are otherwise almost illiterate.

So...I certainly ain't talkin' about you, or any of the generation that invented the stuff!
Sorry for the confusion.



#155    RabidCat

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 10:27 PM

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No, no, no....no argument.  I think you're either mistaken about what I said...or...I didn't say it very well  (which is distinctly possible crying.gif ).
I was speaking to the younger generations being sucked into the the hoax beliefs, and postulate that part of the reason for this is the diminished secondary school requirements (which are evident in my area).   Such reduced requirements may be contributory to the apparent lack of reasoning skills, the lack of impetus I detect in this group (in general) to do any particular research on their own, etc....thus contributing to their ability to accept completely unsubstantiated jibberish (in many cases) as fact.

For instance, I know in my neck of the woods, when I was in high school, the requirements were 4 years of English, Humanities, Science, and Mathematics.  Today, the first two remain the same, but Science and Mathematics have been halved...to 2 credits each.  

I find that sad, as well as amazing.   I had 6 credits of Sciences and Mathematics by the time I graduated high school.     And, I find so many young people who can navigate their way through a computer like a wizard, but are otherwise almost illiterate.

So...I certainly ain't talkin' about you, or any of the generation that invented the stuff!
Sorry for the confusion.

Sorry, Mid, I was being sarcastic, and didn't do too well.  Once again, I think you are quite right in your complaints.
I don't know what your neck of the woods is (but the phraseology reminds me of where I grew up).  Where I grew up was similar to your description.  Classes were divided into a standard class, with more or less average requirements, a 'bonehead' group allowed to take industrial, auto mech, etc, and a college prep group, which required all the sci-math the school offered.  Still, the curriculum was rather boring (I thought).  But at a minimum, we all understood what we were taught.
One interesting aspect I discovered when I taught electronics in Silicon Valley was that the general population didn't understand the basis of math, for instance.  In short, teaching binary, octal, and hex number systems (essential in basic computer science) meant teaching these students what numbers are and what the different bases mean; a very strange situation.  I suspect that the educators have gotten ahead of themselves, way too far.  Teaching calculus was a real trip.  I personally had no difficulty with it, as it made sense, and the reasoning was obvious, but the students I had couldn't quite get that handle on it, regardless of how it was explained, or how often.
As you, I find it interesting how younger people find their ways around computers, even knowing virtually nothing of the workings thereof.  But then, I guess Microsoft et al are to blame for that.  (I learned things like CPM, OS9, OS2, DOS, UNIX, Linux and several others in my career.)
Oh, well.  I'll just let them all handle it.


#156    MID

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:30 PM

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Sorry, Mid, I was being sarcastic, and didn't do too well.  Once again, I think you are quite right in your complaints.
I don't know what your neck of the woods is (but the phraseology reminds me of where I grew up).  Where I grew up was similar to your description.  Classes were divided into a standard class, with more or less average requirements, a 'bonehead' group allowed to take industrial, auto mech, etc, and a college prep group, which required all the sci-math the school offered.  Still, the curriculum was rather boring (I thought).  But at a minimum, we all understood what we were taught.
One interesting aspect I discovered when I taught electronics in Silicon Valley was that the general population didn't understand the basis of math, for instance.  In short, teaching binary, octal, and hex number systems (essential in basic computer science) meant teaching these students what numbers are and what the different bases mean; a very strange situation.  I suspect that the educators have gotten ahead of themselves, way too far.  Teaching calculus was a real trip.  I personally had no difficulty with it, as it made sense, and the reasoning was obvious, but the students I had couldn't quite get that handle on it, regardless of how it was explained, or how often.
As you, I find it interesting how younger people find their ways around computers, even knowing virtually nothing of the workings thereof.  But then, I guess Microsoft et al are to blame for that.  (I learned things like CPM, OS9, OS2, DOS, UNIX, Linux and several others in my career.)
Oh, well.  I'll just let them all handle it.


That's OK!  I'm apologizing for not being clear, and you're apologizing for not making your sarcasm clear.

I guess we're both pretty dim! blush.gif

Yes, I think the same demarcations existed where I grew up, vis-a-vis the levels of high school education based upon relative ability levels.   Even at that, it was rare to find any graduate--even from the "bonehead" group  original.gif--who couldn't at least balance their checkbook or fill out a basic employment application in reasonably clear English.   Maybe I don't remember all that well...I don't know, but it sure seems things are different today.




#157    RabidCat

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 05:35 PM

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That's OK!  I'm apologizing for not being clear, and you're apologizing for not making your sarcasm clear.

I guess we're both pretty dim! blush.gif

Yes, I think the same demarcations existed where I grew up, vis-a-vis the levels of high school education based upon relative ability levels.   Even at that, it was rare to find any graduate--even from the "bonehead" group  original.gif--who couldn't at least balance their checkbook or fill out a basic employment application in reasonably clear English.   Maybe I don't remember all that well...I don't know, but it sure seems things are different today.

Agreed.
Mid, I've started a new thread in the science section, a topic I've been kind of obsessed with since a strange occurrance dealing with measuring sputter thickness back in the early 80s.  Has to do with free energy, Ecklin and Gray.  Have a look, please.


#158    Cinders

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 05:20 PM

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Many thanks, Cinders.
Have I seen any UFOs?  The honest answer is: absolutely.

But I've seen them while not flying as well.   Just last summer, a very bright reflection aloft between some cumulus clouds had me getting out the binoculars and zooming in.  A most unusual two spheres at what appeared to be a very high altitude, virtually hovering.   I could not make out anything of any detail save the fact that it definitely appeared to be two spheres aloft.   I have no idea what they were...baloons, perhaps, but they didn't behave as balloons would.  They were virtually still.   Another look a few minutes later revealed no trace of them.  

There was another long-ago unusual lighting pattern observed within low clouds.   Made me stop the car and watch, trying to figure out what that might have been.  Never did.  A UFO.

So yes, I have seen UFOs.  

However, I will state that I have never equated these sighting, unresolved as some of them were with alien spacecraft.  I have merely equated them with things aloft that I could not identify, which is the actual definition of the term.  

This fact has no bearing on my feelings about alien life.  Quite franklly, I find it absolutely ridiculous, from a scientific standpoint, that people think there are no other intelligent life forms in the universe besides us.  I think the odds have to be overwhelming, astronomically so (excuse the pun), in favor of such.

Do I think they are visiting earth?   I see no reason to think so, nor have I ever seen any concrete evidence of such.  
Do I think they ever have?  Perhaps.   But I cannot say, since there doesn't seem to be any evidence to that effect either.

I will say this:

I would welcome a visit, should any alien life form advanced enough for interstellar travel, and skilled enough to find this little, almost invisible life-filled spec in the massive cosmos, land here.

But, if they've been intercepting our TV transmissions, and are intelligent enough to get a clue about what we're all about, I rather imagine that they would make a right at the moon and keep on going!

Regards.


MID!!!!

I am so sorry for getting back to you on this so late. A big reason is because of not one but TWO recent sightings I saw on April 30, 2006 - because of this sighting I've been away from the forum looking into better video / camera equipment.

ABOVE in your quote in BOLD sounds EXACTLY like what I recently saw.

This particular sighting caused a BIG uproar around my house. When I saw it, from my living room window, I yelled for my husband. He could not see it.. but the man is unfortunately near sighted!  I was throwing a tizzy that I could easily see it and he could not. He got defensive.. and feelings were hurt.

I then ran outside with my old VHS camcorder, I could see it easily outside! But I could not pick it up through the camera lens and tried to video tape it. After failed attempts, I ran back into my house and watched it through my office window.  I tried to get my sensitive IR Web cam to focus in on the object.  The software was giving me problems, I was in a hurry, I kept looking out the window, still seeing it, then trying to get the web cam to zoom in on it..

Then I looked out again, it was GONE!

I saw this object for well over 10 minutes from 3 different areas around my house!  It just sat in one spot, during broad daylight in the bright blue afternoon sky - not moving- completely motionless.. and could go easily undetected if one were not looking carefully.

It just sat there as the few sparse light clouds would float by. I reported this to a UFO researcher.  He looked into this for me and told me it was NOT a balloon. The weather balloons from Salem, Oregon are let off at 5 pm, (Salem is about an hours drive south from me) my sighting was between 4:15 to 4:30 pm. He also explained that it was NOT a planet or star in the direction I observed this, and it was not a flare, or sattelite in the area at the time I saw this

I am frustrated that I could not get a second witness to see this or get it on video - it was up there for so long!.  Because of the "uproar" around the house, my husband now has handy where he can find them, his binoculars and telescope.  I've been busy shopping for better powerful equipment to video tape and take pictures with.  I never want to be in that situation again.. it was very frustrating!

In the past 18 years that I've seen various UFO's on rare occassions, I've only been able to capture 2 on video - 14 years apart.  This latest one though was quite frustrating for me (and my husband) .. it was up there for quite a long time, and I have no proof of it.

Thank you so much for getting back to me MID.. I REALLY appreciate this.  thumbsup.gif

Edited by Cinders, 07 May 2006 - 05:23 PM.

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#159    leadbelly

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 11:49 PM

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Agreed.
Mid, I've started a new thread in the science section, a topic I've been kind of obsessed with since a strange occurrance dealing with measuring sputter thickness back in the early 80s.  Has to do with free energy, Ecklin and Gray.  Have a look, please.

“John Dering  had  gone to work on a  mercury-sputtering deposition tool that utilized a flow of mercury-ions from a high-voltage, RF-driven emitter. He was called in because of what they’d described as a device malfunction. The company indicated that when they shut the device down, the pool of waste-mercury in the bottom of the chamber spontaneously rocketed up to the top of the chamber - 4 or 5 pounds worth - and splattered with enough force to destroy the sample being etched.

They thought it was an anomaly, and after testing the device for pinhole leaks and electrical failures, so did John.

What changed his mind was being called in to repair this same anomaly over 3 months at 3 different companies, leading him to realize that it was a repeatable effect creating an ?antigravity? force on the mercury, but one that only occurred under rare conditions when the device’s fields collapsed during shutdown. It was repeatable, but not intentionally…”

Dering, Kron:  UFT and Nonlinear Threshold Effects



#160    RabidCat

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 05:15 PM

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“John Dering  had  gone to work on a  mercury-sputtering deposition tool that utilized a flow of mercury-ions from a high-voltage, RF-driven emitter. He was called in because of what they’d described as a device malfunction. The company indicated that when they shut the device down, the pool of waste-mercury in the bottom of the chamber spontaneously rocketed up to the top of the chamber - 4 or 5 pounds worth - and splattered with enough force to destroy the sample being etched.

They thought it was an anomaly, and after testing the device for pinhole leaks and electrical failures, so did John.

What changed his mind was being called in to repair this same anomaly over 3 months at 3 different companies, leading him to realize that it was a repeatable effect creating an ?antigravity? force on the mercury, but one that only occurred under rare conditions when the device’s fields collapsed during shutdown. It was repeatable, but not intentionally…”

Dering, Kron:  UFT and Nonlinear Threshold Effects

This may be related to the Ignetron tube.  It's a sort of vacuum avalanche diode, or SCR, that is used for high energy discharge of capacitive banks, to magnetize rare earth permanent magnets (must be magnetized with extremely powerful fields.
It may also be related to, if one accepts to some degree, the use of mercury in propulsion of the Vimana, flying machines purportedly used by very ancient India.  I don't wish to debate the possible existence of those things, but in Ramayana descriptions thereof, mercury was used  with heat to form some sort of vortex within the ship.
There are many things we don't seem to wish to investigate in electrical phenomena, such as toroidal charges, excess energy, and so forth.  Early theory is ignored in favor of theories that are more explicable, even though the accepted theories do not account for all possible results.
Your above is quite interesting, and will lead me to do some research on it.



#161    MID

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 12:08 AM

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MID!!!!



Thank you so much for getting back to me MID.. I REALLY appreciate this.  thumbsup.gif



Cinders, you're most welcome....

And from your descriptions of your recent events out on the western part of the country...I can say I feel your pain!  

I was frustrated just reading your descriptions!




#162    Atreju

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 10:20 AM

Lots of really odd folks out there. i still can't figure out how the hell they still think we didn't go to the moon.



#163    MID

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 09:34 PM

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Lots of really odd folks out there. i still can't figure out how the hell they still think we didn't go to the moon.



Oh, I can.

That's why I'm here...to answer their questions and set them...hopefully...on a path toward their own personal investigation and knowledge in the matter.


#164    Cinders

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 10:46 PM

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Oh, I can.

That's why I'm here...to answer their questions and set them...hopefully...on a path toward their own personal investigation and knowledge in the matter.


And I for one, really appreciate your thorough knowledge of this subject and taking the time to put things in "laymen" terms for us. I also appreciate your views and the "truth" in some of the things you have personally seen and dealt with as well. That really made a difference to me.

In other words,  "I trust you"   yes.gif  thumbsup.gif

We need more peeps like you around!


"We are like butterflies who flutter for a day and think it's forever." ~Carl Sagan


#165    Lilly

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 11:12 PM

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In other words,  "I trust you"   yes.gif  thumbsup.gif

We need more peeps like you around!


Yeah, Cinders, You and I both! We should start a MID fan club!  

Bravo MID!      user posted image

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